So, if I coup the Soviet Union, do I get to make any citizen I want its HoG? What with my slowish internet and "corrupt" game? 
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Well getting high speed would be only half the problem. I don't know all the rules for mp, but I hear usuing the pause is out. Since my favorite country is usa, I think without the pause I would be quickly overwhelmed. This would also bring up multiple mp questions. Should I start a new thread to ask those?Lord Ederon said:What are u waiting for then? Go and get it!
Maybe. As for the pause button, after you get good internet, the best sollution is to remove the button altogether.
Rules are usualy dealt per game. That means you'll know them beforehand and you can always ask ingame (during the session). This game will have only limited number of rules (as for regular MP part - live phase), so no need to worry about that.son of liberty said:
Biggest difference between SP and MP at first might be game speed. It is rearely higher than normal, during war time usually not faster than slow. That is way slower than what average SP game is played on (together with frequent pausing). As a result, you won't need pausing since time will flow slow enough to have it under control. Occasional pausing (like when someone dows you, as Germany starting Barbarossa) is ok. You must be ready to give up some "effectivness" characteristic for SP games. But it'll pay off.
Yup, would be probably the best. If you start one in MP subforum, I'm sure you'll get answers you need.
Major Update - part 4
Attributes of Citizen
Country: what country he's citizen of
Militancy: 0-10, how militant CIT is, how much he likes war, etc.
Tolerance: 0-10, how tolerant CIT is
Political Preferences: preferred DP slider settings for Democratic/Authoritarian and Political Left/Political Right
Sensitivity to Military Performance
Country involved in war will have to wat at how satisfied her citizens are with performance if armed forces. Every won/lost battle have impact. If number of these is over CIT's limit, he'll have actions available to provide feedback. Monthly.
Min of Won Land Battles: number
Max of Lost Land Battles: number
Min of Won Naval Battles: number
Max of Lost Naval Battles: number
Min of Enemy Ships Sunk: number
Max of Lost Ships: number
Other CIT's Attributes
Every resource CIT receives is added to his possesions. Demands are not since they represent CIT's consumption. CIT can then operate with these resources.
Demands of Citizen
Demands represents daily consumption of CIT. These are objective demands. If they are not satisfied, CIT has actions available to reflect his unhappiness. Effect of these actions may be halved if demands are satisfied to 70% or more. They are evaluated after each session.
Money: amount of cash, it represents consumer goods need
Energy: amount of energy
Further demands can be chosen by each CIT himself. It is just matter of roleplay. It may be somewhat restricted in final, but I won't close this topic just yet.
Citizen's Character (CC, optional)
Citizen can choose character to represent him. It depends on how much CIT player wants to roleplay. CC can be well used for AAR purposes. CC can be tied to in-game minister or leader.
Aftermath actions available to CIT
1a. Demonstrate
Prerequisites: demands are not met AND militancy > 0
Effects: dissent +CIT's share in the country divided by 3 (if country has 2 CIT's, it'd be 50% / 3 = 16%, for 6 CIT country it'll be 5%)
Description: People express their dissatisfaction and go to the streets.
1b. Demonstrate and strike
Prerequisites: demands are not met AND militancy > 3 AND money >= 50
Effects: dissent +CIT's share in the country divided by 2 (if country has 2 CIT's, it'd be 50% / 2 = 25%, for 6 CIT country it'll be 8%), money -50
Description: People express their dissatisfaction and go to the streets and strike.
1c. Initiate Coup d'Etat
Prerequisites: demands are not met AND militancy > 6 AND money > 50
Effects: dissent +CIT's share in the country, money -50, 50% chance of success if at least 33% citizens support revolt
Description: Try to take over the power in country. Other CIT's can support it.
1d. Support Coup d'Etat
Prerequisites: coup initiated AND militancy > 5
Effects: CIT's share is added to support of coup
Description: People support coup initiated by another group of people.
...to be continued...
Citizen (CIT)
Each player (including HoG's is citizen. Citizen has few attributes, which characterize him and to some extent define boundaries for his behaviour. Each citizen has demands country he lives in must satisfy. If any of these demands are not satisfied, citizen can fire back by actions available to him.Attributes of Citizen
Country: what country he's citizen of
Militancy: 0-10, how militant CIT is, how much he likes war, etc.
Tolerance: 0-10, how tolerant CIT is
Political Preferences: preferred DP slider settings for Democratic/Authoritarian and Political Left/Political Right
Sensitivity to Military Performance
Country involved in war will have to wat at how satisfied her citizens are with performance if armed forces. Every won/lost battle have impact. If number of these is over CIT's limit, he'll have actions available to provide feedback. Monthly.
Min of Won Land Battles: number
Max of Lost Land Battles: number
Min of Won Naval Battles: number
Max of Lost Naval Battles: number
Min of Enemy Ships Sunk: number
Max of Lost Ships: number
Other CIT's Attributes
Every resource CIT receives is added to his possesions. Demands are not since they represent CIT's consumption. CIT can then operate with these resources.
Demands of Citizen
Demands represents daily consumption of CIT. These are objective demands. If they are not satisfied, CIT has actions available to reflect his unhappiness. Effect of these actions may be halved if demands are satisfied to 70% or more. They are evaluated after each session.
Money: amount of cash, it represents consumer goods need
Energy: amount of energy
Further demands can be chosen by each CIT himself. It is just matter of roleplay. It may be somewhat restricted in final, but I won't close this topic just yet.
Citizen's Character (CC, optional)
Citizen can choose character to represent him. It depends on how much CIT player wants to roleplay. CC can be well used for AAR purposes. CC can be tied to in-game minister or leader.
Aftermath actions available to CIT
1a. Demonstrate
Prerequisites: demands are not met AND militancy > 0
Effects: dissent +CIT's share in the country divided by 3 (if country has 2 CIT's, it'd be 50% / 3 = 16%, for 6 CIT country it'll be 5%)
Description: People express their dissatisfaction and go to the streets.
1b. Demonstrate and strike
Prerequisites: demands are not met AND militancy > 3 AND money >= 50
Effects: dissent +CIT's share in the country divided by 2 (if country has 2 CIT's, it'd be 50% / 2 = 25%, for 6 CIT country it'll be 8%), money -50
Description: People express their dissatisfaction and go to the streets and strike.
1c. Initiate Coup d'Etat
Prerequisites: demands are not met AND militancy > 6 AND money > 50
Effects: dissent +CIT's share in the country, money -50, 50% chance of success if at least 33% citizens support revolt
Description: Try to take over the power in country. Other CIT's can support it.
1d. Support Coup d'Etat
Prerequisites: coup initiated AND militancy > 5
Effects: CIT's share is added to support of coup
Description: People support coup initiated by another group of people.
...to be continued...
I started a question thread on mp forum, comments/suggestions would be appreciated.
Who sets those values? If it's every citizen in turn, can he/she do it now? Are they secret?
They can be randomly generated, assigned by GM or chose by player himself. This will happend at the beginning of game. And yes, they are secret. Only citizen himself shall know them (and GM). I'll cover information disclosure later on.Rotten Venetic said:
I reckon you should use DAIM + Doomsday in 1938 scenario.
Using the 38 scenario gives HoG a little bit of time (but not too much) to choose a direction and strategy for the country and the citizens to have some input too.
From what I've seen most of the other mods are buggy and not well balanced.
Using the 38 scenario gives HoG a little bit of time (but not too much) to choose a direction and strategy for the country and the citizens to have some input too.
From what I've seen most of the other mods are buggy and not well balanced.
Interesting, but surely there can be some other avenue for citizen participation short of coups besides raising dissent?
I have a question: Could I, as a citizen, make more subjective demands? Say I was a citizen for the U.S., could I threaten to demonstrate if my HoG persists in loss-heavy island-hopping, or demand that he garrison the state of Montana?
Roleplaying sounds interesting.
Please count me in as a citizen of Germany (being German, that seems best)
I am not applicable to lead our country, as I do not play MP.
Please count me in as a citizen of Germany (being German, that seems best)
I am not applicable to lead our country, as I do not play MP.
@Kuma Chan - what exactly DAIM is? is it full mod or just hardened AI?
@Half There - yes, exactly. What you mention is good way of citizen's active participation.
@Jones944 and Hubsi - welcome
Definitely. List of actions is not completed. Do you have any ideas?Petrarca said:
@Half There - yes, exactly. What you mention is good way of citizen's active participation.
@Jones944 and Hubsi - welcome
DAIM is just making the AI more robust without any other changes to setup. AI Germany/USSR/UK/USA can be expected to churn out infantry until it hurts, though.
Perhaps giving citizens a less negative role would make things more interesting, such as assigning them the ability to change, dissent-free, ministers in a certain area, or selecting specific techs within a certain area (e.g., CAS amongst aircraft).Lord Ederon said:
Thanks for insight. It seems DAIM might be worth it without causing "live" players much trouble with its deployment.Petrarca said:
I thought of following concepts to let citizens participate:
- let them impersonate ministers/leaders. If players find this attractive, I'll elaborate a bit and maybe put on some rules regarding ministers/leaders - what decision powers they have, etc.
- let citizens act as capitalists - accumulate cash, build factories and lobby for government to spend cash in his armoury. I'm not sure how to implement this yet.
- let citizen act as scientist/group of scientists. Similar to capitalists, scientists will spend their cash on research and try to sell it to the government(s). Again, I'm not quite sure how to implement it.
Problem with positive role of citizen can be that as soon as one gets involved in active influence of country, he'll attempt to save government from negative effects (dissent hits, etc). And that's what this game has ambition to unleash - governments fear of their citizens.
For positive CIT actions, perhaps you should emphasize the aspect of competition and disagreement amongst citizens by, say, giving the government only enough resources such that it has to choose between buying IC from one citizen or getting a blueprint from another. This keeps the citizens from becoming so dedicated to the war effort that they forget about their own desires.
Citizens might choose to collaborate against the government or with the government against another citizen or country.
HOWEVER, if the desired effect is to be achieved it's up to us to act as selfish as possible. Gents, leave your altruism at home.
HOWEVER, if the desired effect is to be achieved it's up to us to act as selfish as possible. Gents, leave your altruism at home.
Huh.
Starting in 1938 does not make me happy as HoG of NatChi.
Oh well, it'll be a challenge. The other nations will just have to step in to help me .
Starting in 1938 does not make me happy as HoG of NatChi.
Oh well, it'll be a challenge. The other nations will just have to step in to help me
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