Strike Craft Suggestion - Give Strike Craft a Large Anti-Hull Damage Bonus

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Mímisbrunnr

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As most of us know, there are currently several issues impact strike craft viability.

Thankfully, in the last few weeks, one of the devs mentioned that they've identified the source of one of these issues, a bug that can sometimes cause strike craft to fly off aimlessly and not contribute to the battle, so hopefully that fix will be implemented soon.

However, there is still another key issue that challenges Strike Craft viably - the fact that they are typically competing with L-slots (large-size slots) [seeing that Hangar bays are generally allotted space on hull segments equivalent to them taking up the same amount of space as a L-slot; its 4 Small = 4 Point Defense = 2 Medium = 2 Guided = 1 Large = 1 Hangar, except for the anomalous Picket Bow of the Destroyer which has 1 less PD or S slot than it should by this convention and is thus underpowered]. And its not just that Hangar slots use the same number of slots as large weapons, but also that the ship sections they are mounted on tend to use Medium or Small plus point defense [except the Battleship Hangar core, which is 4 Medium and 1 Hangar and is the only Hangar-providing ship section with no point defense]. So you are also trading out ADDITIONAL large guns, not just for the Hangar's slot equivalencies, but with the other guns offered on Hangar sections.

Anyways, the point is that the typical late game fleet could be mounting Neutron Launchers or Kinetic Artillery in these large slots that the Hangar slots compete for. These have massive ranges (130 and 120) and also have bonus damage vs. hulls.

Combined with other factors (such as these guns also striking the target instantly, while strike craft must fly out there), this makes Strike Craft a losing proposition.


But what could we do to make them more worthwhile?


One possibiltiy would be to give Strike Craft a large anti-Hull (+% damage vs. hulls) damage, like the other weapons they are competing with (Neutron launchers and Kinetic Artillery) both have. Perhaps even a SUBSTANTIALLY LARGER bonus than either of these weapons.

Flavor-wise, it could be justified with the idea that since strike-craft are able to get so much closer to the enemy ships, they have the opportunity to very precisely target weaker points in the enemy craft at essentially point-blank range, allowing them to deal extremely effective damage.

Moreover, per existing mechanics, ships lose combat effectiveness as they lose hull points, so this could also justify strike-craft bonus damage vs. hull with the idea that the strike craft are targeting key systems (gun batteries, shield generators/projectors, engines) to debilitate enemy ships during their attack.

This might not solve all or even more of the issues of strike craft, but it could help alleviate the issue.

What do people (players and/or devs) think?
 

KingAlamar

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Nov 5, 2016
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There's a lot of things that could theoretically be done with Strike Craft:

  • Let them launch immediately [once you get in system]. Then treat the strike craft as a separate fleet that the player could position [within the local system]. This fleet would also have separate targeting from your other ships with a VERY long effective combat range??
  • Give Strike Craft variable speed .... one for rapid distance closing. Another for "dogfight"
  • Give Strike Craft 360 degree firing arcs
  • If you assume "auto shield penetration" then arm strike craft with your choice of laser, plasma, mini-neutron-torps, etc. as tech allows
  • If you do not assume auto shield penetration then give them similar loadout options as you'd have with normal ships -- Kinetics, Energy, Missiles, or Bypass. Damage adjusted accordingly.
  • Allow Strike Craft to gang up on one ship so it's taken out quickly then move to the next available target. Perhaps this gives keeps them out of range of at least some PD??
The above doesn't even go into the possibility that strike craft get unique bonuses like the possibility to take out weapon / defense / engine systems while doing hull damage [precision shot]; slowing down the enemy fleets lowering speed and maybe evasion ; etc.

IMHO the above would be one possible first step towards making strike craft viable again. Given all the issues that Strike Craft have [even with improvements] I'd like to see their raw damage potential when engaged to be between L an XL weapons given that hard counters [PD] exist. Then again the existence of such hard counters results in their own set of problems.
 

Mímisbrunnr

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. Given all the issues that Strike Craft have [even with improvements] I'd like to see their raw damage potential when engaged to be between L an XL weapons given that hard counters [PD] exist.


Well, I suppose my +% Hull Damage suggestion resides along a somewhat similar theme - to increase their damage output.

In the current implementation, Strike Craft ignore shields entirely (+100% Shield Penetration), and get a bonus to armor damage (+50% damage vs. Armor).

My suggestion, to add in a large +% Damage bonus vs. Hulls would contribute towards amplifying the damage output, perhaps toward the scenario you envision if the value was set properly.


With such an amplified damage, perhaps the "niche" of Strike Craft could be a high-risk, high-reward weapon - potentially unparalleled damage (depending on the values chosen) if you can overwhelm enemy point defenses - either by destroying their escorts [or them not having any], or by having so many strike craft that they overrun the point defense systems, at the cost of running the risk of being hard-countered rather than soft-countered.
 

KingAlamar

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Well, I suppose my +% Hull Damage suggestion resides along a somewhat similar theme - to increase their damage output.

In the current implementation, Strike Craft ignore shields entirely (+100% Shield Penetration), and get a bonus to armor damage (+50% damage vs. Armor).

My suggestion, to add in a large +% Damage bonus vs. Hulls would contribute towards amplifying the damage output, perhaps toward the scenario you envision if the value was set properly.


With such an amplified damage, perhaps the "niche" of Strike Craft could be a high-risk, high-reward weapon - potentially unparalleled damage (depending on the values chosen) if you can overwhelm enemy point defenses - either by destroying their escorts [or them not having any], or by having so many strike craft that they overrun the point defense systems, at the cost of running the risk of being hard-countered rather than soft-countered.


I was thinking they could be brilliant "defensive" craft. Say you see the enemy coming and you know which side of the system they will hit you from. Pre-positioning your strike craft [on top] of where the enemy will hit the system should give a nice alpha strike. Add in a BUNCH of fixes and maybe you're in good shape.

In general though I'd like to see Strike Craft be flexible enough to compliment the weapons systems in your other ships. Giving Strike Craft options to synergize with other loadouts would be awesome. Right now Strike synergize well with Missiles / Torps as both systems ignore shields. It does nothing for balanced Kinetics / Energy builds nor does it do a lot for bypass builds.

I'd like to see some sort of loadout options EITHER in the fleet control gui OR possibly when you build your ships so that weapon types could be specified. This would make their plug & play use in other fleet types more seamless and thus might get chosen a little more IF the interface / ease of use issues could be solved.
 
Sep 5, 2018
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Again: There should be much more options for hangars - fighters, bombers, fighter-bombers, a mix of these; defense drones, attack drones, repair drones, a mix of these.

I don't think that shield penetration fits them too well if they could do that then swarms of fighters could cut everything which isn't full on flak or fighters too to ribbons they would be potentially more agile and deadly than corvette swarms.

Support makes more sense: have them tackle enemy ships keeping ships them from jumping away, bomb ships who have lost their shields, protect your own fleet.

I don't need fullWW2glorycarrieressentialbattles rather I'd have them as another effective weapon system.

Galactic terrain could also come in handy - pulsar radiation being too deadly for such small weak/un-shielded targets to operate, while systems with lots of asteroid belts would provide cover from flak for example.
 

Mímisbrunnr

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I admit I come from a background where Star Wars was my first major sci-fi franchise, so I want to be able to see conflicts like we observe in things like the Battle of Endor (with lots of big ships and star-fighters dogfighting on both sides) become practical from a gameplay standpoint [which is less so the case in a meta where strike-craft presently stink, unfortunately].
 

MichaelJanuary

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My view such as it is .... that point defense should be way less effective against fighters. After all, missiles have limited intelligence while a piloted starfighter should be way more evasive and tougher than a missile and probably even be lightly shielded.

The best counter to strike bombers should be fighters, not pointdef.

Bombers should be armed with short range torpedoes that scale with your torpedo tech, and fighter damage scales with laser tech. Likewise for hull, shield and propulsion.

We could still unlock different fighter chassis with techs that allow for diverse loadouts such as single torpedo launcher, double torpedo launchers, heavier laser cannons, autocannons, or options for anti fighter missiles.
 

KingAlamar

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Nov 5, 2016
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My view such as it is .... that point defense should be way less effective against fighters. After all, missiles have limited intelligence while a piloted starfighter should be way more evasive and tougher than a missile and probably even be lightly shielded.

The best counter to strike bombers should be fighters, not pointdef.

Bombers should be armed with short range torpedoes that scale with your torpedo tech, and fighter damage scales with laser tech. Likewise for hull, shield and propulsion.

We could still unlock different fighter chassis with techs that allow for diverse loadouts such as single torpedo launcher, double torpedo launchers, heavier laser cannons, autocannons, or options for anti fighter missiles.

I 100% agree in terms of 'flavor' and tropes. To fight bombers you want Fighters > Flak > Guardian PD. This seems to match up well against a lot of SciFi shows.

I won't argue about realism BUT in terms of role play, immersion & tropes that does feel right.


I'd rather not have HARD counters in game though. My preference would be for somewhat softer counters but that's perhaps just my POV.
 

KingAlamar

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Nov 5, 2016
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I'd want to test hangar craft with the current bug fixed before deciding whether they need a buff or not. They've had the same bug for so long, I'm not even sure how they interact with current mechanics.

I'm not sure if many people do :) .... There's been so much speculation for so long concerning what's wrong that I wouldn't be surprised if you had to fix a half dozen things ... and even then they still might only be "situation-ally good".