Streamers are playing the full game after the embargo lifts on the 20th?

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Insaniac99

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Kickstarter is another thing I don't get. You are basically acting as an Angel Investor without the accompanying share of the proceeds. I'm glad people backed this, but in an industry that includes products like Godus I don't see how people can do it.

If there was a Kickstarter like platform that functioned more like an IPO I could see it. Otherwise a pre-order is as far as I'll go, I don't even do Early Access any more.

Let me put it this way, if it was Paradox making the Kickstarter, I likely wouldn't have done it and/or likely wouldn't have gone in as high as I did.

But HBS are great people, they built a lot of trust, really treated us backers right the previous kickstarters they did, and I backed Battletech because it was them doing it.

PDX seems to be doing a lot to try to burn all that good will IMO.
 

MalfusX

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HBS and Paradox are trying for BattleTech to be a bigger success than just amongst the core BT fanatics that played the TT for 15+ years. To do that they need to show the game to a wider population of gamers and this is what they are trying to do right now. If it is successful you, the hardcore fan, will surely reap the benefits in form of updates and DLC marked as "in success". In your place I would be keeping fingers crossed that this marketing strat succeeds, rather than moaning about it.

Having a good amount of content out pre-release is awesome for everybody. It's smart marketing from the publisher, it's good for consumers who can get a taste of what the game's like before dropping cash on it, and it provides a new field of content for streamers. I've been scouring the forums for the last few days and I don't think I've seen anyone complain once about streamers having access to the pre-release copies or streaming under embargo.

Absolutely none of those benefits are enhanced in any way by lifting the embargo this early, and this thread is a collection of the most common complaints felt by backers and other fans. The most convincing argument presented in this thread in favor of the embargo release was the idea that the early part of the game looks REALLY easy, and that could be a turn-off for non-BT fans coming from other turn-based strategy universes (XCOM being the largest of those). But I don't think the players who are deep enough into those games to crave difficulty are going to write a game off for not being hard enough in the first couple of missions, historically the training ground for new players. They just want to see the mechanics, the aesthetic, and be assured that there's some depth here to dig into (and the streams we've seen thus far have been great for demonstrating this game's depth).

Twitch is also largely about audience building, and the first streamer on the scene gets a huge edge in that department, regardless of skill, charisma, or ability to engage an audience (as evidence, I present the fact that in the early, early, own3d days of League of Legends even people like Grackis built up a following). So not only are PDX (I assume this was a PDX decision, though I'll readily admit I have no idea how these decisions get made nor by whom) creating a pain point for the die-hard backers who have been into the project for years, they're also picking favorites among the streaming community and deciding what the BT portal of Twitch is going to look like for the next few months. Which... kinda sucks.

EDIT: oops, didn't finish my thought in the 2nd paragraph. Fixed.
EDITx2: also I suck at typing
 
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MalfusX

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If there was a Kickstarter like platform that functioned more like an IPO I could see it. Otherwise a pre-order is as far as I'll go, I don't even do Early Access any more.
These exist, they're called crowd equity companies. In the US you have to be able to demonstrate solid income to be an investor and the total funds raised can't exceed a certain amount (I think the number's still at around $1M USD).
 
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Lunatic Pathos

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Twitch is also largely about audience building, and the first streamer on the scene gets a huge edge in that department, regardless of skill, charisma, or ability to engage and audience (as evidence, I present the fact that in the early, early, own3d days of League of Legends even people like Grackis built up a following). So not only are PDX (I assume this was a PDX decision, though I'll readily admit I have no idea how these decisions get made nor by whom) creating a pain point for the die-hard backers who have been into the project for years, they're also picking favorites among the streaming community and deciding what the BT portal of Twitch is going to look like for the next few months. Which... kinda sucks.

I can get behind the last part of this statement. I was considering trying to stream on release and try to really focus on teaching the mechanics and showcase interesting tactics, especially a cavalry, hit-and-run, underdog style that I hadn't seen in the previous streams. I've been learning streaming with a couple other games to prepare.

Cohh, NGNGtv, Sidestrafe didn't put me off doing that because it was limited in content and quantity. I understood there would be a lot of others doing the same on launch day to compete with.

But now that there are a dozen-plus folks who will have already captured much of the limited attention, there will already be some level of developed twitch culture surrounding the way the game is shown, and I'm not as interested in having to yell hard enough to make any impression not only over other release day streamers, but the set meme of how the game is perceived on twitch.

I'm not that disappointed. It would have been mostly an experiment for me, and I'll probably still stream when I take my staycation on the 25th, but the streaming prospect is a lot less exciting now.

I'm not angry, I don't feel cheated, I'm glad there has been stream promotion of the game, it's just starting to seem excessive rather than a good teaser/trailer. It doesn't help that I find the new batch of streamers pretty irritating. Anyone find a particularly entertaining one?
 

RaelM

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It's risk management. It's a lot easier to keep an eye on a handful of contractually-obligated streamers than it would be to ensure that any of a few thousand backers don't put the DRM-free client on file sharing services.

I've never seen a streamer with a pre-release DRM free build. They all get their games through Steam due to this possibility, it's a lot easier to enforce over Steam so publishers tend to only give out Steam keys.
 

kvetcha

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I've never seen a streamer with a pre-release DRM free build. They all get their games through Steam due to this possibility, it's a lot easier to enforce over Steam so publishers tend to only give out Steam keys.

Yes, but many of the backers are on GoG. If Paradox were to release early to backers, as some here have demanded, those folks would by necessity be included. And that's a risk.
 

RaelM

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I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people who chose to receive a GOG key are the older generation of BT fans who I doubt would leak their copy but I do see your point. HBS and Paradox could've just released a set of Steam keys for all backers (like the beta (be they Steam or GOG backers)) that could've been temporary (like the beta), that's one way to circumvent that issue.
 

Ian Wagner

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Well, I suppose the influx of streamers playing with no cut-off point embargo may find some late game mission bugs before release, so.. yay? But not watching, as I want there to be some surprises left in the game for me when I get to play it.
 

Deaghaidh

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At this point it's kind of moot anyway. By the time all parties involved got on board with the change it would most likely wind up being Monday before backers got the game. Wasted labor hours for one days gain.

Also I don't see what's so awful about Paradox. I mean worst thing you can lay on them is not letting a portion of the audience get early access. I don't know if that's a usual perk of kickstarter backing so maybe that's a bigger deal than I think. Or maybe mishandling getting the word out about streamers. Pretty mild stuff.
 

me987654

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I've never backed a kickstarter, but I do follow some of them.

This is one of the best kickstarters I ever seen. Heck, I've played the beta (I know someone who backed) and i'd pay JUST FOR THAT. Honestly, this game has blown past any expectations I had. The campaign as an example is way more detailed than I ever expected.

This game was clearly built by people passionate about the project.
 

Dheran

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Clearly you have not followed the various court cases that have circulated around Kickstarter. You are still promised a product and it is due to you. It is a purchase.
Meh, U.S. != World and the number of cases is a drop in the ocean against the number of KSes that didn't deliver. Also HBS KS does actually deliver, so there is no legal foothold.
But the thing you and others making the same argument as you don't understand is that it isn't even about legal rights, it's about treating your faithful customers right.

Treating the people that showed the most faith in you as nothing but money bags breeds contempt and ruins a lot of good will.

Making them have to dodge spoilers while a bunch of other people play and talk about the story is a not a nice thing to do and people are entirely justified in being upset about it.
It's rather you that doesn't understand that in the world of gaming money your opinion and good faith matters little. One "good guy" move and proper PR spin and you (the backer) will remain the vocal hurt minority against the majority of happy fans. If you don't believe me, see how EA, Activision-Blizzard, Sony Entertainment, Ubisoft and others do it with pretty much every triple-A title.
I mean it's nice that you backed the game and it is awesome that HBS will deliver it. Going nuts because HBS doesn't give you a prerelase key while some streamers got it is a bit over the top. You waited 3 years, you really ought to be able to wait couple of days more.
 

Kereminde

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See you on the other side.

No . . .

latest


. . . you won't.
 

me987654

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Nope. Just release it to everyone then. 4 days of pruoroty streaners will not increase sales more then 1million people playing it and talking about it. Anyone whomis waiting on a review or there twitch guy to recomend it will not be affectwd by early release. And if they were truly worried about drm free they wouldny have as option.

OMFG - they CAN'T JUST CHANGE THE RELEASE DATE.

You have no idea how much time, effort and pre-planning goes into major software releases.
 

Insaniac99

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It's rather you that doesn't understand that in the world of gaming money your opinion and good faith matters little. One "good guy" move and proper PR spin and you (the backer) will remain the vocal hurt minority against the majority of happy fans. If you don't believe me, see how EA, Activision-Blizzard, Sony Entertainment, Ubisoft and others do it with pretty much every triple-A title.
I mean it's nice that you backed the game and it is awesome that HBS will deliver it. Going nuts because HBS doesn't give you a prerelase key while some streamers got it is a bit over the top. You waited 3 years, you really ought to be able to wait couple of days more.

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention but using EA as an example to follow is a very bad idea considering they are the 5th most hated company They treat their customers like garbage and are hated for it. The other companies you mention also are not faring well in public opinion due to their practices. I ams specifically suggesting that Paradox and HBS not act like companies like those, because of the ill will they generate.

I'm not "going nuts", I'm not frothing at the mouth, or any other thing, I am simply voicing my entirely reasonable complaint, and I will thank you for not mischaracterizing me in such a manner.

I don't like the fact that I have to take special actions to dodge spoilers while I am not even allowed to play the game I paid for. I have yet to hear a completely rational argument why they could not have kept the streamers under embargo to not go past Operation: Panzyr like the previous streaming deals.

It's a simple and completely rational position to take.
 

Mystix

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I don't like the fact that I have to take special actions to dodge spoilers while I am not even allowed to play the game I paid for. I have yet to hear a completely rational argument why they could not have kept the streamers under embargo to not go past Operation: Panzyr like the previous streaming deals.
It's a simple and completely rational position to take.
I'd argue the anti-spoiler actions are not that special but simple in nature, but ok, maybe it is harder for you. I cannot judge that for your situation.

But haven't you backed the development of this game with the benefit of getting a copy for said backing ON RELEASE? I highly doubt HBS has missed any other things that backers at our level were promised, right? (Yeah, novella 4/4 is not out yet). And if you had a special deal, just procure the documents and I am sure HBS will comply. I think they had enough law suits for the time being and then some. If this is your coffin for your trust in HBS - and that is what I read from your lines, sorry if I am misjudging you here, too, that would be sad, but then again, that is life. Everyone will be dissapointed by something/one once ...

Or maybe just slow yourself down, because no matter how much you go on, you won't get to play the game any earlier than we others do. You (and we all posting to this quite toxic topic again) may even risk the mods intervening - again. Is one closed thread not enough? (Which is not your fault alone, but all our fault for arguing this topic. Maybe it is even wrong to reply to you here again. My bad. Sorry Mods.)

Even in this forum, the majority of ppl are not asking for pre-release play. The majority is - as always - silent (or discussing other stuff, like that awesome tutorial that was just updated to 2.2) ...
 

KnightCole

Colonel
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Mar 2, 2018
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Hahahahahahaha, oh man. I can just picture that.

Director walks in 5 days before deployment.


'Kay guys we've changed our mind. Software is being deployed RITE NOW!'


Director never again seen alive.

Well, Mycom and Russian devs do that all the time, except its "ok, we deploy tomorrow'

"Nyat, we find many, many new bugs, need new week to fix them!"
*release delayed 2 1/2 more weeks*

every patch...
 

MalfusX

Recruit
1 Badges
Apr 16, 2018
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Perhaps you haven't been paying attention but using EA as an example to follow is a very bad idea considering they are the 5th most hated company They treat their customers like garbage and are hated for it. The other companies you mention also are not faring well in public opinion due to their practices. I ams specifically suggesting that Paradox and HBS not act like companies like those, because of the ill will they generate.

Maybe a better metric than 24/7 Wall Street's list to demonstrate customer dissatisfaction would be to use the hard sales figures. EA are projecting sales of 10-12 million copies for Battlefront 2 by the end of the current fiscal year, down from Battlefront 1's 14 million over the same stretch of time 2 years ago.

Plus they even managed to get a congressman to condemn their business practices, which for a game company, is kinda... impressive?
 
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