Strategy as Friesland, Gerlderland or Utrecht to form the Netherlands (Ironman)

[Niptium]

This is a hard bargain. I've tried three times in two days - forming the Netherlands - twice as Gelderland and once as Friesland. It's hard because the Emperor (Austria) and Burgundy are two very cumbersome neighbours. And twice Austria inherited Burgundy (with its southern half going to France). The HRE members are pretty touchy about the human player annexing another HRE state and once you do get from a one province minor to a two or three provinces minor, you can be sure that the Hansa or Munster will declare war on you and that the chances are high that Austria / Burgundy will join in the fray because they constantly warn you...

And I'm trying in Ironman mode, so I don't cheat / reload.

 

[Niptium]

Also why did the "Pragmatic sanction" event fire up in 1444 ?

 

[A Swell Guy]

Utrecht is perhaps the best choice here, as it starts with a core on Gelre, and the divine ideas are pretty good. The downside as a theocracy is that you might miss out on crucial alliances that you would otherwise get with a royal marriage.

With Utrecht, you'll want to take Gelre and Friesland as quick as possible, so as to prevent Burgundy from warning you and preventing you from expanding. So while you are fabricating a claim on Friesland, try to ally Denmark, and either Austria or France. Additionally, try to ally other nearby nations, like Brunswick, Munster, the Hansa, or even nations that you want to conquer later, so as to avoid them joining a coalition against you. If Gelre and Friesland are not allied when you attack either of them, then make sure to attack the other before you make peace so as to prevent Burgundy from warning you. Avoiding coalitions in the HRE is just a matter of making convenient temporary alliances to reduce AE and constantly improving relations.

Initially, it's better to ally Austria, so that when Burgundy and France are at war, you can attack Burgundy when they are vulnerable. If the Burgundian event fires, a French alliance is almost necessary to take the lowlands.

 

[Xara]

I did it as Gelre while flip-flopping between Austria and France as allies.
Warn your neighbors so you can get a CTA if they fight each other.
Ally with some others reasonably close but not directly on your border.
Pray that your claims aren't discovered and doubly pray that Burgundian inheritance doesn't fire. Or triply pray that you can get a marriage with them, and they occupy Sundgau in a war when it happens.

 

[Frungy78]

Pragmatic sanction fires because Austria has no heir at the start, and a female was born (usually Maria Theresa). Theoretically it's possible to RM Austria and hope the 20something year old Hapsburg dies early, to get a super early dynasty for PU.

The choice between Gelre, Friesland and Utrecht is basically about which government you want- monarchy, republic, or theocracy. The free core for Utrecht is a bit of help as well. Friesland is also on the sea border, so you can expand east from the beginning (East Frisia isn't part of the HRE, go for that asap).

Other than that, ally France. Austria will protect you from Burgundy since you're in the HRE, and they aren't reliable for defeating the Burgundy doomstack. Expand slowly watching your AE, and vassalize your neighbors if possible (it sucks as a republic).

Inheriting Burgundy sounds like a neat challenge- I didn't know it bypasses Austria if Sundgau is occupied. But it's a bit difficult to arrange that, since Burgundy is probably losing if the inheritance fires.

 

[Xara]

Inheriting Burgundy sounds like a neat challenge- I didn't know it bypasses Austria if Sundgau is occupied. But it's a bit difficult to arrange that, since Burgundy is probably losing if the inheritance fires.

It bypasses the Emperor if :
-Burgundy occupies any territory the Emperor owns
-Emperor is not Austria and < 8 provinces
-Emperor is Austria and < 5 provinces
iirc.

Inheritance is more common if they are losing, sure, but it's possible any time they are at war pre-1500

Of course, to get it bypassed they have to be AT war with the Emp (usually Austria) AND manage to occupy (usually Sundgau) AND keep occupied a province AND have the event trigger. So yea, it's a one in a thousand chance for it to actually reach you, but it sure would be neato. I like seeing the inheritance go to someone unusual.

 

[DGuller]

In my game as Prussia, somehow Bavaria got to be the Emperor early on. I guess that explains the utterly silly result of Netherlands being owned by Spain. Interestingly enough, Spain seemed to hold on to Netherlands much better than I ever saw Austria do, and in fact Spain is currently a bigger menace than France (without any contribution on my part). Based on this one very unusual game, it seems like the the root of the BBB problem is the fact that Austrian inheritance of Netherlands tends to serve Netherlands to France on a platter.

 

[Niptium]

I am slowly doing it with Frisia. I'm in the early 1500s and there is only Gelderland left to annex to fire the decision to become the Dutch Republic. I did it by aligning myself with France and cultivating a good relationship with Austria. France pummelled Burgundy from which I first got Holland and Breda. I then waited a few decades and declared war on Burgundy to get Zeeland with (again) France's help. I had to wait a few years and then waged war on a helpless Utrecht and annexed the bishopric. Only Gelderland is left now, but it's a new French ally which makes it a tougher challenge than I first thought. I wouldn't want to wage war on Gelderland just to see France falling on Gelderland's side...

 

[Varesz]

I formed Netherlands twice in Ironman, although never before they actually revolted. So both times i had to vassalize, annex then form them.
First with Utrecht: i colonised NA and conquered north of the HRE. Due to coalition wars I only managed to form Netherlands in 1820
Second time with Friesland: I just fled to the new world straight away and came back to europe before my core expired in around 1600. Meanwhile I colonised/conquered the whole american continent.

 

[Cherubael]

My strategy for forming the Netherlands as Friesland was:

1. Warn Burgundy, so they can't warn you and make it impossible to attack your neighbors
2. Ally whatever minor countires you can in your region
3. Forge claims on and attack minor neighbors
4. Once you reach around 5-7ish provinces, France will be interested in an alliance (especially if you rival Burgundy)
5. Dismantle Burgundy with France's help, giving them as few provinces as you can get away with while maintaining the alliance
6. If you want to keep growing or France is of a threatening size, ally Castile/Austria and use them to dismantle France.

The more you expand into the minor HRE princes, the easier a time you will have with your first war against Burgundy. I played a second game where I restricted myself to only taking the Antwerpen trade node, which made it much harder - as I couldn't grow very much before fighting Burgundy. It was still quite possible, though.

 

[SaintPetersbourg]

I managed the achievement as Friesland very quickly, actually. What I did was I was able to ally Burgundy at the beginning. The first time I tried, I lost embarrassingly to Brunswick, so I restarted but noticed that Burgundy was hostile. So I restarted again until they were neutral like the first time. It took about 3 tries. But then it was a simple matter of conquering OPM after OPM and then 2PMs until Burgundy started getting beaten up by its neighbors, then I pounced.
I also managed to stay allies with France throughout, although I eventually went to war with them after forming the Netherlands because of trade reasons.

 

[jazzroen]

there is a fourth, even more fun option to form the Netherlands...

start of as Burgundy, release Holland as a vassal on day 1 and tag switch to them Dutch ideas from the start, lots of tradepower in Antwerpen trade note. Get support independance from France and Austria, pretty easy to get free that way. then its quite easy to take over the Dutch OPM's. also, you can start the colony game pretty early on if you want that.

most fun game to form Netherlands that I ever had

 

[neondt]

I can usually get the required provinces before 1500 as Friesland. Initially the Hansa is likely to accept and alliance, so take advantage of that. Gelre and East Frisia often ally, again something you can exploit. Once you've expanded a bit, the Hansa will probably break their alliance but you'll be ready to ally France. Then simply beat up on Burgundy/Austria until satisfied. Remain allied to France for as long as possible; you'll often be able to opportunistically seize Spanish or Portuguese colonies when nobody is looking.

 

[Frungy78]

My favorite Netherlands was forming as the Hansa. You get the two Hansa events (sound toll, krantor) that boost your trade, then you culture shift to Dutch. Your trade income is massive. Unfortunately it doesn't give you the achievement, since it requires the OPMs.