strategy as England for Surrender of Maine + BI

[viale]

So. My game as England gunning for the PU over France sort of escalated into something I need a little help with in deciding what to do next.

I made all the preparations for the war with France, however i took almost a year for the Surrender of Maine event to fire, which meant, that in the mean time I fought Ulster and Scotland, thereby weakening Scotland for future subjugation.(I used the trick with exploiting manpower development for reaching 60% total manpower and thereby finishing the Scotland mission)

As the war drew to a close with Scotland the Surrender of Maine fired. I wrapped up the war on the Isles and waited a little for the War of the Roses to fire before heading to France. I've allied Austria, Brittany, Burgundy, and Aragon(I call it the ABBA-Alliance, or ABBAliance ). However I could only call in Aragon and they fought bravely alone on the continent as I was wrapping up the War of the Roses and shipping armies to Brittany. Slowly I've been making headway against France until Aragon finally made peace.

This wouldn't be a problem, I had peaced-out Provence in the mean time. However almost as soon as they made peace the Burgundian Inheritance event happened. And this time everything in the Netherlands went to Burgundy and they fell under a union with France

I'm fairly sure this means that I get both unions if I pursue the wargoal of getting a union over France. However, I'm really not sure I can beat both of them. And I do have the CB for the next 20 years.

My manpower aint too bad, but I just got a good beating when Burgundian troops suddenly turned to enemies(there were in another war at the time) And I do have both Paris and the fort next to it fully occupied, but I think the sheer amount of troops my enemies have is gonna change that very fast.(my military tech is only 3, the same as France however that might change fast as well since I've used most of my points on generals to get army professionalism 5 and then getting manpower that way. So I'm fairly sure I'm somewhat behind on military MP)

I only got 2-3 loans so I could go all-in on mercenaries. However I'm not sure it is wise. However, however the prize of both France and Burgundy in a union with all their vassals seems extremely tasty.

How would you guys proceed with this?


I've provided a few screenshots

 

[st360]

You left out the most important part. How high is Burgundy's liberty desire?

 

[raphi1985]

I played England a lot in EUIV, but not since the 1.30 patch, so I cant really give great advice. Still I would say:

- Your primary goal in an England campaign should be the early PU on France. That is pretty clear, I guess.
- The numbers in the war, you are in right now, do not favour your side. Due to AI stupidity it is not impossible to win it, but rather unlikely.
- If you are willing to savescum, this is probably the time to make a backup-save and play this war untill you win it.
- If you are not willing to cheat this way, I would probably rather peace out (for ducats?) and then prepare for the next war. However even the next war will be a tough one against France and Burgundy. Maybe next time austria will help, as they usually rival France as well.

When I played England before 1.30 I usually got Burgundy as an ally against France in the force-union.war. If you should get both PUs, thats obviously an amazing start! So good luck!

 

[JaxElite]

There are two crucial pieces of information we need. Liberty desire of burgundy and are the insane french starting generals alive?
Scenario I.
Burgundy is disloyal and french generals are dead already.
Go take your free cake. Just slap france a little longer and dont let them get to paris and you are fine.

Scenario 2.
Burgundy is disloyal and french generals are alive.
Avoid fighting french generals at all cost and try ro accellerate the war. If they reach mil 4 with generals alive peace out.

Scenario 3.
Burgundy is loyal and french generals are dead.
This isnt harder than Scenario 2. Burgundys good ruler general is obviously dead already and they have big troubles maintaining their economy during war due to their insane amount of forts. Focus on catching smaller burgundian stacks, they cant replenish. If they are still over forcelimit from the integration they will bankrupt soon.

Scenario IV.
French generals alive and burgundy is loyal.
Get some gold and come back later with allies

 

[Meglok]

If you decide to fight, remember mercs are your friend early on. Grab the cheap Free Company and put a siege pip general in it. Use this to siege down forts so your manpower isn't drained. This will increase your staying power and you can always grab gold in the peace deal or do the cheap 5 loan burgher estate edict to cover costs. Grabbing both France and Burgundy in early PUs is too good to pass up.

 

[atwix]

If the enemy has no siege generals and you can hire good merc one.. then continue. Focus on france and try gdtting burgundy on 50% LD.

 

[Titanius Puffin]

Here's what I can think of...

-Target small armies first.
-Fight as assymetrically as possible; ambush from the sea by sending a laden fleet into port, and then attach your armies and flee back out again before help arrives.
-Get mercenaries if they don't send you hopelessly over the force limit.
-Save and Reload often (if not Ironmaning) ; this is likely a tricky campaign.
-Pump up your military advisor, and use your fleet batteries to breach the walls of coastal forts (50 mil a pop).
-Spy networks shorten your siege cycle. You want a 100% spy network in France, which should count as a 100% spy network in all her vassals and subjects too! This should give a 20% siege offensive ability when full (scaling).
- Distract your enemy by landing at Bordeaux (or sending ships laden with soldiers in that direction). When enemy armies have moved south, attack the north. You have a limited window of time, so consider breaching the walls. A scarificial distraction may be necessary if you've lost the Aquitaine and can't evacuate by bringing fleets in to port.
- Coastal forts are particularly useful army traps, since ships with armies move faster than soldiers on land.
- Use defensive edicts for your forts in Normandy and Cailais (assuming mandate of heaven DLC)
- Retake Gascony if at all possible since it allows you better misdirection.

Hope I helped.
Good Luck!

 

[viale]

Thank you for the feedback and advice guys. It really made me try to press on by hiring lots of mercs and then trying to get to sieging French lands. However this happened a few months into game after starting it up again

Burgundian LD went from 53 to 0 in a matter of days and then France inherited Burgundy almost immediately.

At this point I realized the war was lost. This time around. France just got all of Burgundy's troops and forts(meaning more land to siege down for a positive warscore) and they were at millitary tech 4 and I at 3. so I peaced out, giving France quite a lot of my continental lands and some money.

My thinking is that my Scottish truce is up in a manner of months. I've got claims on all of Ireland. And next time I might be able to call in both Aragon, Austria and Brittany. As well as my (at that time in the future) Scottish PU subject.

I have the Restoration of the Union CB until 1481, so I've got one more try at forcing the union.

Truth be told, I started the game with an intent on colonizing and not getting involved on the continent. However, I now know I need to kill France somehow because they are gonna be a beast I left alone.

I have claims on all of Brittany, is it advisable to drop the alliance and go for their lands? It would mean a bigger base of operations for the next French war, and I have a feeling that any land not part of my control is gonna end up being French in a very short time.

Again thank you for all of your advice. It really made me stop what I was doing(ready to peace out at a moments notice) and accessing the situation. And I was actually very committed to fight on until France got all of Burgundy under direct control. At that point it started looking too costly when Scotland and Ireland was right there, ready for becoming my land.

 

[Titanius Puffin]

Truth be told, I started the game with an intent on colonizing and not getting involved on the continent. However, I now know I need to kill France somehow because they are gonna be a beast I left alone.

Time to break out the tunes:

Something to listen to while playing?

I play England heaps, and I don't think you need to beat France. Spain's navy might be a danger, but France? as AI? at sea?!? Not unless you neglect your ships.

Furthermore.....
Every colonial nation over 10 provinces gives you +5% trade power globally and another merchant, which means another +10% trade power at your home node (plus trade income). Every trading company over 50% land trade power gives another merchant - so another +10% power in the English Channel node, along with the trade .
This trade power bonus applies to trade fleets, and they increase their base trade power over time anyway. Merchant bonuses also apply to land trade power, but it's less dynamic.

Once you finish colonisation or expansion ideas, parliament offers you an extra colonist and colony growth in a parliamentary issue - one of the strongest parliamentary acts available.
Parliament changes some of it's issues every month, so you can get the extra colonist and +20 colony growth very consistently.

Historically, the English kings/queens were driven from the continent....

There's plenty to discover that I haven't said. I'm not giving you a full rundown of how to play....but if Gloria Gaynor's not your favourite singer, there's always this:

Enjoy.

 

[viale]

Thanks for your suggestions Titanius. I like the Cake version better

So. New development as I was waging war on an independent Norway for Iceland and the North Atlantic isles.

Look who France just got as a new PU subject

So. Apparently Napoleon was born 300 years early, or I'm actually playing against a hypercompetent France in singleplayer Ironman game, where another player has sneaked in and taken control of France and is playing the PU game as a boss, or the game has read my mind and decided to help me in my wavering on whether I should interfere in continental matters or just go colonizing.

Either way I'm doing the hardest Brexit on Europe now.

An upside to this is that I think this just stopped Castille from taking any colonization ideas(them being a subject nation and all) and now only France and Portugal is going to be my colonial opponents.

I've sold all my continental possessions except Calais(I demolished the fort at the start of the game) and broken the alliance with Brittany which meant France declared on them.

This game has gone from challenging to insane regarding the situation in western Europe. and I'm so glad I'm not playing Austria or Aragon vis-a-vis France in this game

 

[atwix]

if austria rivals france you still got a chance. try allying aragon again and minmax the war. its doable if you primse austria and aragon some land. i'd try with a copy save for the practice

 

[Titanius Puffin]

An upside to this is that I think this just stopped Castille from taking any colonization ideas(them being a subject nation and all) and now only France and Portugal is going to be my colonial opponents.

That's surprising, but it sounds like a pretty good upside.

So. Apparently Napoleon was born 300 years early....

Music to my ears.

 

[bestbrian]

This is a very interesting game. I've goofed off a bit since 1.30 with Austria, a custom TO/LO/Riga amalgamation, and now involved in a serious Burgundy game, and all I've seen is France getting its ass handed to it each and every time. Kinda fun to see a return of the BBB taking shape, although, since it's the AI, it most likely will be fleeting before it devolves in some form of Mingsplosion.

 

[Methuen of Melnibone]

One of the joys I experienced in my Britain game was Operation: Smother - in which France declared war on me over some colony or another: I parked my navies around their coast and made many golds from them, for the entire war. They didn't enjoy it one bit, and I ended up with Sardinia (I think) off of one of their allies.

This is a very interesting game. I've goofed off a bit since 1.30 with Austria, a custom TO/LO/Riga amalgamation, and now involved in a serious Burgundy game, and all I've seen is France getting its ass handed to it each and every time. Kinda fun to see a return of the BBB taking shape, although, since it's the AI, it most likely will be fleeting before it devolves in some form of Mingsplosion.

Agreed - fascinating watching it go from 'how can I win all of this' to 'sod it, I'm off to America'., with the Burgundy mechanics being so key.

 

[Beagá]

I think you are wasting your time unless you want the 25 development in all England achievement.

 

[Titanius Puffin]

I think you are wasting your time unless you want the 25 development in all England achievement.

There are other achievements that are perfectly viable too... not all of them, but still some. They depend on decisions and directions from the game and player.
If you aren't enjoying the view in this particular thread... well there are others.

 

[Richard-monagha]

I got lucky in my England game. I restarted until Burgundy and Aragon were both rivaled to France with Castile rivaled by France. I was able to call them both into the surrender of maine war with France with a promise of land and give them nothing. They both remained friendly with me when they broke their alliances and I was able to re-ally them 5 years later. While I was taking Scotland and Ireland Aragon hit Castile and took a bunch of provinces from them while they were at war with Granada and Tunis/Ottomans and Burgundy hit Provence taking some more land from them. Milan expanded a lilttle more in Italy. I ended up with a PU over Aragon in the 1450s when their starting heir died and a PU with Burgundy in the 1480s, followed a year later with a free inherit while at war with Austria and got a PU over Milan in the 1490s. If I were a better player i'd have went for a full WC with this

Also when I got the PU over Burgundy they inherited their subjects (except the vassal, they integrated that) as seen in the pic below? I thought they all become interdependent (sorry if wrong but first game since new DLC release).

Also had a funny bug in this game where Poland got a free PU over Denmark but both Sweden and Norway remained in a PU under Denmark at the same time and all 3 of them would join Polands wars lol

 

[viale]

You guys have been so nice with all your advice, so I think I owe you another summary of the development in this game which just keeps evolving.


So, a short while after the screenshot of the Norwegian war France declared on me.

And subsequently this game just turned into the 1984 novel.

I'm blockading everything I can reach without getting too spread out. Ie. I'm hesitant to get down to Sevilla and the Franco-Iberian Mediterranean. France sits at a (on paper) pretty good position regarding warscore due to occupying Calais. But they can't reach me at all. Occasionally they try to break out and I crush their scattered fleets. However. There's no chance France will accept a white peace with this amount of warscore. And I'm not accepting a defeat when I'm winning the long game. I can afford maintaining 4 colonies at the same time, and I'm still making cash whereby I'm building buildings and more boats.

Look at the start date of the war and the year I'm in in the game.

I'm slowly starting to build manufacturies, shipyards and I've even built quite a few docks in order to maintain my way too large navy.

What are the consequences for staying in perpetual war?

Well. I can't form Great Britain and I can't interact with my estates. However. France can't annex its vassals, inherit Castille, interact with estates(does the AI even do that?) and I don't think they will declare any other wars. Is there any other consequences for me or France?

I'm ahead in diplo tech(I feel this is essential for my survival). And have both Exploration and Expansion ideas so I'm just happily colonizing the Caribbean thereby growing stronger while France won't expand due to being in war. And this locks them out of declaring out Aragon, Portugal or anyone in the HRE.

When I get to the 5 English Idea I get Red Coats(Marines) and I'm thinking about using them for flushing out the scattered fleets in French and Castilian ports.

I'm contemplating doing the unthinkable and taking either Naval or Maritime for my third idea

Hear my out. I want this war to continue as long as possible. Since I'm pretty sure France is hurting more than I am both diplomatically and expansion wise. However at some point the coastal defense building spree is going to commence and that's gonna suck for my blockade efficiency(which can be improved through those two ideas). I need marines and it seems the only way to get them besides from national ideas is through either of those two and policies related to them.

 

[Titanius Puffin]

Yep. Marines are good for port raiding/fleet killing. If you haven't used them before, it's no accident that they are fast on and off ships, but take increased shock damage. Expect to micromanage.
Maritime ideas cancel out the naval attrition from the advanced naval batteries - as mentioned by Johan.
As for increasing marines forcelimit, there is a third way: one of the top-level trade company buildings - the Governor General's mansion for 1,000gc - provides +2% marine forcelimit.

Also, if the French don't have much cash.... will they build a lot of naval defences? I don't know for sure...something you could tell us perhaps?

 

[Beagá]

You can claim Faroes islands, then attack Norway. Then go for Sweden. Both easy pickings for a fully Formed GB. Your navy keeps the danes in check but don´t go into galley hell.

There is ALWAYS another place to expand in the game. You just have to be creative.