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Dagfinn

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How do you play an iberian without beeing crushed by the muslims??

I have tried several times but fails misserably each time :eek:o
Even if I lay low and try to develope, I get crushed :(

When I play with other dynasties, I also watch the iberians struggel tremendousley. Are the muslims owerpowered? :confused:
 

unmerged(135995)

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Nah, they're not overpowered.

Maybe in the early 1066 campaign, but not in the 1150's, by that time any organized Christian realm can kick 'em out.

Eh... As for a strategy... Struck, or be struck? Perhaps become a vassal of France if you're a duke?
 

Cèsar de Quart

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Muslims in Spain own the best and richest provinces, and usually become vassals of the Almoravids or the Seljuks (which is awful, in the second case), and at the beginning are more poweful than the Christian kingdoms. But it's not that hard. I haven't played with Leon or Castille, but Catalonia has a relatively easy way to make itself a place in Iberia: rush to Tarragona, Albarracín and even Zaragoza. It's hard at the beginning, but you can do it. Then, you must get the royal title of Aragon, the easiest and tiniest king title in the whole game, I think. But Navarra usually takes advantadge of his claim (except the House of Barcelona, the rest of the kings in Iberia are descendants of Sancho the Greater (House of Navarra, although the game calls them "Jiménez")), so be careful. The easiest way to get the title is by marriage and assassination. You could also grab the title, because your wars with the moors should have given to you a good amount of prestige. But I don't like the bad boy way. So, I'd marry my son (or myself: kill your spouse!) with a daughter of King Sancho and then kill the other sons of Sancho.

But yes, usually Iberian kingdoms are crushed under the Crescent. That's because the game does not depict the main advantatge that gave the Christians the victory: the feudal system. Moors had some sort of feudal system, called Iqtá, but it was more like a way to maintain a mercenary army. Muslim armies were mainly payed soldiers, mercenaries and forced "volunteers". Christian armies were made of a leading nobility, well-trained for war, heavy knights and foot soldiers. The entire feudal society was made from and for war, Muslim society was made for peace. And this is how Christians won Spain: they were made to it, they had the advantadge. Muslims could use their taxes to pay mercenaries, but Christians could raise every man in their domains to war, and Medieval knights were truly fearsome.
 

Cèsar de Quart

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Become a vassal of some great king is something I cannot bear. You get ruined every time they ask for troops, they finish almost every war you start, they keep almost every province you take and leave you bananas when a war you had fought for 5 years is over because of him, earning you nothing with it at the end.
 

TempestDK

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I am currently playing as the de Barcelona dynasty and have managed to unite the entire peninsula. But it is tough ... especially at the beginning.

A few pointers:

1. Move fast. When you see an opening (like a one or two province taifa without a powerful ally), atttack in force. Do it early on when the muslims are splintered (they won't be for long) and where both Castille and Leon still exists and can take some of the muslim aggression.

2. Don't get sidetracked. Basically as soon as you have your back turned, the muslims will attack .. and in force. Usually this happens if you let your armies wander too far from home ... like going for a little war in Sicily or north Africa.

3. Get hold of the Aragonese king title. They usually fall apart soon (usually to Castille). When the opportunity arises, go for it .. even if it means back-stabbing the other christians. Once you have that, you can vassalize (in DV) any of the taifas. I managed to vassalize a biiiig portion of the peninsula by beating a three province Emir of Sevilla (who had a ton of vassals) and making him my vassal.
 

unmerged(135995)

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Hmm... I actually tend to profit from the guardianship of a great lord. Of course, I'm only a vassal for as long as it takes me to become strong enough to cast off the shackles.
 

saskganesh

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playing as an Iberian, I make unfavourable peaces all the time, surrendering claims and money. the AI usually takes it. harsh, but I live again to fight another day.

and as a last resort, I pledge to France. eventually they'll have their own internal problems, so independence will eventually come.
 

vwclaymore

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Yeah, I tried a game as one of the Portugese counts (with the aim of forging the Kingdom of Portugal) and we (me and the rest of the Portugese) got slaughtered within ten years.

It seemed like there were no easy Muslim targets and the Christian nations are too splintered. I decided it was a challenge to come back to when I had more experience.
 

Emperor Basil

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I've played as Leon in 1066 with few troubles. I acted fast by assasinating the king of Castile so inheriting his kingdom. After that I took control of nearly the entire penisula in one lifetime by taking the initive and striking before potential enemies could strike me. I aimed at subduing the large duchies before they got a chance to mobilize their vassals' armies and succeeded by moving my armies into border provinces and then making war. I ended up being master of most of Iberia albeit with very powerful vassals but my carefully situated demesne lands meant I could quell any rebellions before they got out of hand. I then used any rebellions to reduce my more powerful vassals by also making war on their vassals and making them directly under me or acting quickly on any of their rebellious vassals to the same result.
This strategy worked fantastically successfully but you have to strike before they do otherwise they'll wear you down.
 

Glaucon

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The key to Iberian Christians is to realize that Navarre, Aragon, Galacia, and Castille all inherit into one another. If you feel that killing off the other rulers is "gamey," I would point you to the bloody history of that family...

In my current game I started with Castile. Leon and Galacia were kind enough to go to war killing the King of Leon in the process. I gained that inheritance. Navarre and Aragon went to war combing those kingdoms, once that was done I simply assassinated the King of Navarre to inherit those realms. Galacia accepted vassalization so by 1072 I owned all Christian territories in Iberia except Barcelona. My force muster was 22,000 which was comparable to the Emirs of Zaragoza and Toledo. But if you play Castile you have "El Cid" and his 21 Marshal ability to help out in the fights. After an extended series of wars in 1102 I control half the peninsula, with Seville and Badajoz too. My troop muster is 112,000 with a monthly income of 200.

Just move quickly and do not hesitate to kill off members of your own family. Worst case you get the kinslayer trait. If that happens find a way to kill your ruler.
 

Cèsar de Quart

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The key to Iberian Christians is to realize that Navarre, Aragon, Galacia, and Castille all inherit into one another. If you feel that killing off the other rulers is "gamey," I would point you to the bloody history of that family...

In my current game I started with Castile. Leon and Galacia were kind enough to go to war killing the King of Leon in the process. I gained that inheritance. Navarre and Aragon went to war combing those kingdoms, once that was done I simply assassinated the King of Navarre to inherit those realms. Galacia accepted vassalization so by 1072 I owned all Christian territories in Iberia except Barcelona. My force muster was 22,000 which was comparable to the Emirs of Zaragoza and Toledo. But if you play Castile you have "El Cid" and his 21 Marshal ability to help out in the fights. After an extended series of wars in 1102 I control half the peninsula, with Seville and Badajoz too. My troop muster is 112,000 with a monthly income of 200.

Just move quickly and do not hesitate to kill off members of your own family. Worst case you get the kinslayer trait. If that happens find a way to kill your ruler.

You can find Jiménezs even in the soup.
 

th3freakie

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As for Portugal, I found that the best strategy is starting in a later scenario.

Seriously, 1066 is downright impossible. You're too small to resist anything on your own, and if you pledge to one of the larger kingdoms they'll *always* make peace in unfavourable terms.
 

Jolt

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Really? I don't know where these difficulties come from. I started the 1066 scenario as Count of Braganza, I was rather quick in taking the Count of Coimbra and the Duke of Porto out of my way. Afterwards, I attacked some Shieks who split off the main Emirates, and soon enough I was attacked by Badajoz Emirate (They had previously trounced the Kingdom of Leon). Even though I won the early stages of the war, soon enough the Emirate's size caught up and after two defeats I pledged alliegence to Castille, and together we crushed the Emirate of Badajoz. Afterwards Castille went berserk and attacked the Emirate of Sevilla or whatever and also crushed it. In 1100, more than half of the peninsula is in Christian hands. Had no difficulty in surviving. I'm about to become King of Aragon through marriage.
 

Finnish Dragon

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In 1066 scenario if you are King of Castille or Leon you can vassalize those emirates if you wish. Turning them from enemies to vassals will help the reconquista a lot. It was quite pleasing to use the troops of Emirate of Toledo to be my vanguard in vassalizing other emirates.

Then in time they will adopt Christianity. By vassalizing them you can unify the Iberian Peninsula in less than 20 years but you will have couple of very powerful vassals. That may cause trouble later if you have realm duress.

If you are a duke then you probably should pledge loyalty to France and be careful taking them out emirate by emirate when the King of France is occupied elsewhere.
 

vwclaymore

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I tried as de Coimbra again yesterday and was a bit more successful. I was jumping between lieges, but eventually I couldn't get an invading emirate to become my liege and lost - my problem was that I became independant and went negative on prestige so I couldn't pledge to France or anything like that. It was also frustrating that I couldn't produce sons (7 daughters). The Spanish kingdoms were worthless and all were getting thrased by some Arab power, so they weren't any help. Anyway, playing as a Portuguese count isn't the easiest.
 

Olaus Petrus

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As for Portugal, I found that the best strategy is starting in a later scenario.

Seriously, 1066 is downright impossible. You're too small to resist anything on your own, and if you pledge to one of the larger kingdoms they'll *always* make peace in unfavourable terms.

You have forgotten one thing, in Iberian wars Muslims and Christians cooperated sometimes and so should you. Iberia is easy if you're king, but if you're count or duke you got to be innovative. One of the finest things in DV is that you can offer to become vassal if you're losing a war against enemy who has higher rank than you do. AI kings often accept it. Besides Iberia it works elsewhere also. I have been Portuguese vassal of the African Muslims, Greek vassal of the Seljuk Turks and Russian vassal of the Cumans (it's not limited only to religious enemies, but even Willie the Bastard was kind enough to accept my Welsh prince as his vassal).

Now when you're vassal of the Muslim king you have to use your position to your own advantage. If you DoW his direct vassals he will attack you, but attacking vassals of his vassals should be safe and naturally he will protect you against other Muslims and Christians. Naturally you should abandon his cause ASAP when it suits you.
 

johnbecool

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Go ahead and glob it all, see what happens:rofl:

Serioulsly, you must find the best steward you can get, then construct training before all other thing, then, when you have a good ost, go in little war... If you can't do other, fight muslim by taking cordoba, badajoz and ths other( the most rich provinces)... if you have already a king title vassalize the muslims... it' better than glob them all in one time...

If you play castille or leon, and don't want to get the second title, wait for your neighbour be at war before do it your self... caus' the most of time, they will crush you as they could...

Try to be a "good chritian" at the begining, if you dont't you have serious problem... you have to play very weakling with DV last beta patch in Iberia...
 

Elias_Maluco

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I am trying it. Again.

I started my first game as Count of Coimbra, a got wiped out by the muslins very early. Then I decideed to try something easier first, to get the hang of it. So I played a bit more then a hundred years as King of Sweden (and it was very, very easy), and now Im up to it again, this time as Count of Porto.

So Im still a newbie, but now I have at least a moderate understanding of the game (and Im loving it).

So far, declared war to Sheikdom fo Lisbon, since they were weak and getting beaten by the Emirate of Badajos. So I declared war, but my King stepped in and actually striked then first (before my army could get there, Lisbon was already at siege). A little after, they offered me peace, paying 43 gold. I accepted it, since I was very poor and probably would not get anything out of that war.

Now I dont know what to do: I have 93 gold, but, at 1 income, Im still pretty far from being able to build the training grounds. My court sucks and I dont have any successor. Any advice? Whish me luck, anyways...

EDIT: Just got an event and Porto became POOR. It aint going to be easy...