Strategies for surviving China events?

[artemis667]

I'm playing a China GC at the moment, for the sheer heck of it. I'm up to about 1610 or so, and I have a strong economy - infra 5, low inflation, governors everywhere, and I've colonised up to Kamchatka and the edge of the Siberian corridor. My only weakness is land tech, but since I have no threats I've been focusing on naval (for that shipyard ) and economic techs. I've just quelled the Manchu revolts (I still have a bit of lingering event revolt risk which I think will go away soon) and I've got a big standing army with a war chest of several thousand ducats.

My question is, what do I do to preserve my empire through the coming nastiness? I thought I could get away with crushing the Manchu through brute force and careful maneuvering of events, but I notice there's an event in there which happens even if Manchuria don't exist - which essentially makes them declare independence.

I do *not* want my empire to be taken over by the Manchu. So what's the best way for me to handle the situation?

 

[Underhand]

When you say you do not want your empire to be taken over by the Manchu, do you mean that you understand the route you can take where you become the Manchu but want to do things differently?

 

[unmerged(5205)]

I think that as long as the Manchu don't exist then the event that causes them to take over China can't happen

 

[artemis667]

When you say you do not want your empire to be taken over by the Manchu, do you mean that you understand the route you can take where you become the Manchu but want to do things differently?

Actually, I don't understand that route

I rather keep my empire all in one piece, if possible...

 

[unmerged(15751)]

I think that as long as the Manchu don't exist then the event that causes them to take over China can't happen

Nope. If MCH doesn't exist, the game swats you with the "Emperor Chongzen Commits Suicide" event which automatically grants independence to the Manchu, and then the event sequence goes on as normal. You can choose to join with the Manchu at that point, which you are probably better off doing.

IIRC what happens is that the Chongzen event liberates the Manchu, at which point you get an event announcing that they are taking over. Option A secedes a huge number of provinces to them, gives you a pile of revolts and RR, desertions, and other nasty bits. Option B causes some revolts and desertions, but triggers a MCH event. If they take "A" (excellent chance for that) then you just inherit the Manchu back into your empire. I think that's how it works, anyway--this is one of the more confusing event sequences in the game.

The Chinese event file is (probably) the most annoying and negative of any in the game, because it is designed to offset China's huge advantages.

 

[unmerged(5205)]

Nope. If MCH doesn't exist, the game swats you with the "Emperor Chongzen Commits Suicide" event which automatically grants independence to the Manchu, and then the event sequence goes on as normal. You can choose to join with the Manchu at that point, which you are probably better off doing.

IIRC what happens is that the Chongzen event liberates the Manchu, at which point you get an event announcing that they are taking over. Option A secedes a huge number of provinces to them, gives you a pile of revolts and RR, desertions, and other nasty bits. Option B causes some revolts and desertions, but triggers a MCH event. If they take "A" (excellent chance for that) then you just inherit the Manchu back into your empire. I think that's how it works, anyway--this is one of the more confusing event sequences in the game.

The Chinese event file is (probably) the most annoying and negative of any in the game, because it is designed to offset China's huge advantages.

O okay. I just checked on that one event that says Manchu must exist. I didn't realize there was an event earlier in the chain that freed Manchu

 

[artemis667]

Oh well, so long as I'm not forced to quit and reload as Manchu to continue, I suppose I'll be able to live with it.

 

[unmerged(17563)]

The best course is to cede everything to Manchu, become Manchu through the event then become china again by the event.

 

[Meldorian]

No, no. the wisest course of action is to have the Manchus exist as a one or two province minor to avoid the crazy suicide event, and then "surrender" to them when the spring 1644 event hits. They will then with near certainty join China, i.e. you inherit them, and get your country's name changed to Manchu. You will lose Cantonese culture and gain Manchu culture in this event. About 40 years later you get an event where you can choose to become China again and regain Cantonese culture.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Art!

Have a look at this

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=93836

Although the "stacking of RR"-bug has been removed by Johan lately which makes some of the discussion obsolete.

Or this one
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99699

 

[unmerged(4344)]

A quick read of the events files confirms what Meldorian just said. I did not realize that the line through the events he suggests ends up with you as China with three cultures! That's nice.

BTW make sure you are playing 1.08, and not 1.07. Dealing with the RR on 1.07 simply is not fun, since you'll spend hours stomping rebels.

 

[unmerged(5205)]

A quick read of the events files confirms what Meldorian just said. I did not realize that the line through the events he suggests ends up with you as China with three cultures! That's nice.

BTW make sure you are playing 1.08, and not 1.07. Dealing with the RR on 1.07 simply is not fun, since you'll spend hours stomping rebels.

Then that's definitley the way to go if you end up with 3 cultures

 

[artemis667]

A quick read of the events files confirms what Meldorian just said. I did not realize that the line through the events he suggests ends up with you as China with three cultures! That's nice.

BTW make sure you are playing 1.08, and not 1.07. Dealing with the RR on 1.07 simply is not fun, since you'll spend hours stomping rebels.

Righty-ho. Time to release Manchu as vassal
Thanks for the help, all.

 

[admiral drake]

keep manchu alive , if you annex them they become independend by event and get youre tech if you dont anex them they will probaly have really crappy tech easyer to retake youre lands

 

[unmerged(6147)]

keep manchu alive , if you annex them they become independend by event and get youre tech if you dont anex them they will probaly have really crappy tech easyer to retake youre lands

Eh, how does this match what Meldorian says?

He writes "you inherit them" which sounds as if CHI inherits MAN. But perhaps it was wrong, it is "MAN inherits CHI".

If the latter the smart thing appears to be to annex them and then release them as a vassal at an appropriate moment. And doing something smart with your money in the time between the point were you create them as vassals and the time when they inherit you. E.g. mint 100% and give them stategifts and loans etc.

But if you as CHI inherits them: then play on as ususal.

So Meldorian, who inherits whom?

 

[unmerged(4344)]

Depends on the line taken, but in the best line, China takes an option (b), to submit, which triggers a decision by Manchu: option (a) is to let China inherit them, (b) is they inherit China (which won't happen if China is a human, if I understand how it works correctly). Assuming (a), then China inherits Manchu. However then China becomes Manchu.

Then 40 years later, Manchu can become China again.

As far as annexing them early and releasing them before the event, or leaving them around.. well, it's not likely to matter much. However I lean towards the release, so you can spend the first two centuries owning their land.

 

[Meldorian]

Depends on the line taken, but in the best line, China takes an option (b), to submit, which triggers a decision by Manchu: option (a) is to let China inherit them, (b) is they inherit China (which won't happen if China is a human, if I understand how it works correctly). Assuming (a), then China inherits Manchu. However then China becomes Manchu.

Then 40 years later, Manchu can become China again.

As far as annexing them early and releasing them before the event, or leaving them around.. well, it's not likely to matter much. However I lean towards the release, so you can spend the first two centuries owning their land.

This is exactly how it works. Concering the Manchu provinces, those you don't have a shield on initially are so friggin' poor that it hardly matters.

 

[Stingray]

This is exactly how it works. Concering the Manchu provinces, those you don't have a shield on initially are so friggin' poor that it hardly matters.

But they give way to the siberian corridor...

 

[unmerged(4344)]

Nakhodka and Olga are poor, but the others are just low-tax. So they'll initially be weak but once you get decent TE for trade tax and PE for production, you'll like those furs.

I'd suggest getting an alliance with Japan ASAP, then dumping Olga and Nakhodka on them when you first crush Manchu. You should get most of the Manchu provinces. War #2, you take whatever ones you didn't get first time as a separate peace, and let Japan annex them and take the BB hit. Then you have the CB needed to attack Japan. Take Heilongjiang and vassalize them. Then you annex Japan in 30 years... which gets you Olga back. Hmm, maybe let Manchu revolt out of there to get rid of it.