essucht said:If I am playing friendly with Castille I usually just get MA and use their colony in the Canary islands. If I am not so friendly I take the Canary islands before they can make them a city.
I use MA too.
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I use MA too.
ws2_32 said:
right. that is why i find this fiction of land connection strange.
m v
A lot depends on whether you're trying to roleplay history, or to run a radically different game. I normally do the former, so friendship with Castile/Spain is a necessity. Besides, your real fortunes lie in the East, where events just throw stuff at you.
Diplomatically, I always start getting (1) an alliance, (2) MA, & (3) a TE. Granted, the TE is useless for centuries, but eventually Spain will have lots of TC's, & you want to get to them. Also, all those, & a RM, are barriers to their DOWing you. Until they get to America, you'll have to keep renewing the alliance, but once there, they are always at war with the Aztecs & Incas. Also, DO NOT request their aid when a war starts, unless you absolutely have to. They are not a very loyal ally. But one thing you can do is, as alliance leader, screw them in peace as often as possible. Try to keep Granada alive, so they are always at war with them. Also, keep an eye on their WE, as sometimes you luck you & one of their provinces will revolt & switch to you.
After that, I use my diplomats to keep RMs with all electors of the HRE. This improves your relations, & you may get lucky & become emperor. After all, the diplomats are free, & they're not doing anything else. And if you do get lucky, your manpower & army limits rise.
Note that both these address Portugal's biggest weaknesses: manpower limits, & the behemoth next door.
The other thing is to concentrate on Trade above all. By the mid-16th C, it will be at least 2/3 of your income. (I'm currently in 1606, AGCEEP/MyMap, & making over 4000/year in trade -- which is not exceptional).
Finally, once Manuel is on the throne, just ignore inflation. You have a window from the 1490s to about 1520, when you've really got to move. So don't worry about the (usually sound) advice about not minting to support armies over your limit. You have to hit hard & fast then, & your troops, for once, ARE an economic asset.
Diplomatically, I always start getting (1) an alliance, (2) MA, & (3) a TE. Granted, the TE is useless for centuries, but eventually Spain will have lots of TC's, & you want to get to them. Also, all those, & a RM, are barriers to their DOWing you. Until they get to America, you'll have to keep renewing the alliance, but once there, they are always at war with the Aztecs & Incas. Also, DO NOT request their aid when a war starts, unless you absolutely have to. They are not a very loyal ally. But one thing you can do is, as alliance leader, screw them in peace as often as possible. Try to keep Granada alive, so they are always at war with them. Also, keep an eye on their WE, as sometimes you luck you & one of their provinces will revolt & switch to you.
After that, I use my diplomats to keep RMs with all electors of the HRE. This improves your relations, & you may get lucky & become emperor. After all, the diplomats are free, & they're not doing anything else. And if you do get lucky, your manpower & army limits rise.
Note that both these address Portugal's biggest weaknesses: manpower limits, & the behemoth next door.
The other thing is to concentrate on Trade above all. By the mid-16th C, it will be at least 2/3 of your income. (I'm currently in 1606, AGCEEP/MyMap, & making over 4000/year in trade -- which is not exceptional).
Finally, once Manuel is on the throne, just ignore inflation. You have a window from the 1490s to about 1520, when you've really got to move. So don't worry about the (usually sound) advice about not minting to support armies over your limit. You have to hit hard & fast then, & your troops, for once, ARE an economic asset.
ws2_32 said:
AFAIK the number depends on monarch's ADM ability so it is not possible to set the number at 16 or any other level since there is no such a constant number.
m vin
George LeS said:
Hmm, are there particular AGCEEP events or such that trigger while Manuel is on the throne?
I was playing a MyMap vanilla game where I was friendly with Castille a little while ago, and while having a good monarch is helpful, your tech advantage over the eastern hindu/muslims and the pagans all over the place only grows over time...
I am almost finishing a game with Portugal (I'm in 1810) and I'm not going to achieve a WC but almost. I started BB wars too late around 1780 only. But hey I'll be more or less 50 provinces to WC so it's not bad...
To do it I gave all the importance to the 3 ways you gain provinces: colonization, diplomacy and military.
Colonization - I started by the Caribbean, the best place to start. Richest and cheaper provinces to colonize. Focused at first in provinces in the ToT Spannish zone. The ones in my zone I let others colonize and then stealed it under ToT prior to 1650. Just be careful with non catholics cause you can't steal from them. Careful protecting your land frontiers from spanish conquistadors. Focus in Americas but don't neglect entirely discovering your way to India and Indonesia. You should have discoved China by the time of Queirós.
Ahhh and start by TP's mostly at the beginning til you have the money for colonies only. Choose rich good provinces with low tax (3 or less) for TP's. Rich high tax (4 or more) for colonies.
One important thing - go Mercantilist til you have at least 5 merchants in each known CoT. Then go Free Trader.
Diplomacy - ally with Aragon, choose your targets for vassalization carefully. When time comes vassalize and then annex Aragon. You can have lots of diplo-vassals and diplo-annexations if you play it right. Do that only with christians.
Military - don't lose an opportunity to conquer and then convert pagans. Wait til you are powerful enough and conquer Aztecs. Then Chimus, Incas and all you can.
Start attacking Castilla from the start. This should be the only country in Europe you fight til later in the game and after you annex Aragon.
That's it - build your power and focus always in Economy. Around 1720-30 you should be powerful enough to be more agressive in Europe, build a BB reputation and start BB wars. Then it's non-stop til WC.
To do it I gave all the importance to the 3 ways you gain provinces: colonization, diplomacy and military.
Colonization - I started by the Caribbean, the best place to start. Richest and cheaper provinces to colonize. Focused at first in provinces in the ToT Spannish zone. The ones in my zone I let others colonize and then stealed it under ToT
prior to 1650. Just be careful with non catholics cause you can't steal from them. Careful protecting your land frontiers from spanish conquistadors. Focus in Americas but don't neglect entirely discovering your way to India and Indonesia. You should have discoved China by the time of Queirós.Ahhh and start by TP's mostly at the beginning til you have the money for colonies only. Choose rich good provinces with low tax (3 or less) for TP's. Rich high tax (4 or more) for colonies.
One important thing - go Mercantilist til you have at least 5 merchants in each known CoT. Then go Free Trader.
Diplomacy - ally with Aragon, choose your targets for vassalization carefully. When time comes vassalize and then annex Aragon. You can have lots of diplo-vassals and diplo-annexations if you play it right. Do that only with christians.
Military - don't lose an opportunity to conquer and then convert pagans. Wait til you are powerful enough and conquer Aztecs. Then Chimus, Incas and all you can.
Start attacking Castilla from the start. This should be the only country in Europe you fight til later in the game and after you annex Aragon.
That's it - build your power and focus always in Economy. Around 1720-30 you should be powerful enough to be more agressive in Europe, build a BB reputation and start BB wars. Then it's non-stop til WC.
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essucht said:
Well, the events are more plentiful with AGCEEP, but even in vanilla, I think the rule is true.
1. You still get several useful events, giving you Mombasa, Goa, Malacca, & a permanent CB against Ormuz/Oman. Plus a bunch of troops, on the spot.
2. You have a wealth of great leaders, who can really kick Asian troops. Since conquistadors are weak in Europe, there's really nowhere else to use them, unless you get a CB for one of the African pagan nations (in which case, take it). But it'd be a shame to waste the Covilha-Albuquerque-Almeida-Correos run on just colonizing (especially in vanilla, where you get Camoens, a 6-1-1, who's just made for that).
You also get, back to back, Diaz & DaGama, who can get you to Australia (easy pickings), & Enkan in Siberia (gold), & even W America. You also some short-lived explorers for the new world, like the Corte Real boys. Your exploration & colonization should just explode then.
After they die, there's only one other really good opportunity, when de Sousa & Mem de Sa are around together (but no really great explorers).
So my point is that, this is the time to make hay, & inflation shouldn't worry you, as long as you're building your imperial base. Often, the troops you get from events put you over your support limits, so I say, mint & use them. You can get responsible later.
EmperorGilmour said:
I agree about taking them, but if their rebels give you the province, where's the problem? (I don't worry about the CB, because I always have an alliance, a TA, a RM, etc -- everything which can help avoid war).
George LeS said:
You only get the CB on Oman in vanilla. It makes taking Malacca alot more difficult. And even using your CB to take Zanzibar is of questionable value. I find you normally get a COT no one else can see in the Reunion area if you don't own Zanzibar.
OTOH...Benin can be a nice addition to the Empire - though it will make you have to wait a bit more to get a COT in Brazil.
essucht said:You only get the CB on Oman in vanilla. It makes taking Malacca alot more difficult. And even using your CB to take Zanzibar is of questionable value. I find you normally get a COT no one else can see in the Reunion area if you don't own Zanzibar.
OTOH...Benin can be a nice addition to the Empire - though it will make you have to wait a bit more to get a COT in Brazil.
OK, in AGCEEP the CB is temporary, but it lasts until 1650 or so. That's close enough to permant for all practical purposes. (I can't remember which name they use for the country, in which version). It's a useful chance at a COT, anyway.
I don't understand what makes taking Malacca more difficult.
I agree about Benin (& Dahomey, & Kongo, & Zimbabwe, & often some provinces of Mali or Mossi or Shonghai). Sometimes you can even snatch Timbuktu, a COT I've never seen close down, worth it even though it's Sunni, as are some of the gold provinces.
As I said, if a good CB pops up, use it. But I'll stick with the general rule, that the events in all versions just throw goodies at you, in the Indian Ocean.
One problem I do have is the conquistadors who show up in enemy provinces (Malacca & sometimes Kilwa/Mombasa). There's often no place to retreat them to & it's very hard to time a fleet to evacuate them to (which is an exploit, anyway). What's the point of that?
George LeS said:
Since you don't get a CB on the country of Malacca or a shield on the province of Malacca in vanilla, if you want that COT you have to:
DOW Malacca with no CB: 4 BB
Take two of their three provinces: 4 BB
DOW Malacca again with no CB: 4 BB
Annex them: 5 BB (?)
You can sometimes get around the DOW with no CB if you get lucky with alliance wars in the area, or even get provinces for 1 BB apiece. Southeast Asia just isn't dynamic enough politically to count on this though like you could in say Europe.
Of course in MyMap it is more difficult...Malacca has something like 7 provinces to start with.
essucht said:
OK, I take your point. OTOH, in vanilla there are many more colonizable provinces in the E Indies. Plus there's always Australia & Siberia, which you can get to long before anyone else. For my money, I'll take those easy pickings, then later snatch North & Central American provinces in wars.
It's not only saying it's silly. You should explain your point.EmperorGilmour said:
Not doing it now that's silly!
Yes, taking the CoT in Malacca is a lot of badboy, more trouble, or some good fortune. You can reduce the no CB badboy by having good relations of +100 or more (2 BB). You could get an ally to take two of the three provinces. Annexing is 3 BB for Portugal. I would rather take Ganges.essucht said:
DOW Malacca with no CB and good relations: 2 BB
Ally takes two of their three provinces in separate peace: 0 BB
Annex them: 3 BB
ws2_32 said:
This is something I don't understand. Having good relations with a country gives you less BB when you DOW them?
Yeah, I don't understand either. There is a bug report. I do not remember who I heard it from, but somebody at Paradox told me their understanding of the nature of the bug. Presumably, it is backwards. Supposedly you should get 4 BB for relations of +100 or more and only 2 BB for relations of less than 100. Check the BB FAQ; the true outcome is just the opposite. As a result you end up giving money to nations that you want to DoW without CB. So the bug is not really an exploit; you should have the BB advantage without giving away money. This was one I thought would certainly be fixed in 1.09. Was I surprised; it is a major bug that should be easily fixed.
George LeS said:
I've discovered recently that trading in grain will give you a boost to your army supply limit, which is a big help when playing Portugal. Kick a few extra merchants over to the COTs in Danzig and Russia help feed a few extra thousand.