Getting an alliance with Austria will be harder then ever with all the changes. You will need to join a war with Austria to get a royal marriage. About the only method of doing that is finding a coalition Austria is in and joining it.
Strategies for Norway in 1.8
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Just confirmed it worked. Only took Nordjylland to get there (Mydtjylland would work as well and is probably better to claim Denmark's provinces)
Now I need a way to deal with that Sweden. I'm allied with Teutons, Lithuania and Austria but only Lithuania would join against Norway and won't get access through Novgorod (hostile). Any thought?
Vassalize Novgorod and take Siberia.
How did you manage to get an alliance with Austria? I just got mine, but had to join a coalition war, and paid 100 gold. I probably could of spent less gold, but it was only giving me +1 per 25 gold, and I only needed one more rep modifier.
How did you manage to get an alliance with Austria? I just got mine, but had to join a coalition war, and paid 100 gold. I probably could of spent less gold, but it was only giving me +1 per 25 gold, and I only needed one more rep modifier.
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Norway thread, always my cup of tea 
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Right so the following will always work, after that its up to you... Day 1, start fabricating on skane, ally with sweden and get support of the Hansa (if they dont rival Denmark they won't help you mind). Move your fleet to join Swedens. Once Denmark drops troops off at Gotland you can declare independence and your combined fleets will crush Danish fleet. Quickly start to siege Skane and Halland (the Danish territory between you and Skane if its called something else). After you dow Denmark, start fabricating claim on Dalaskogen in Sweden.
Now the next bit depends on how you want to go forward, I haven't joined the HRE in 1.8 yet, I wasn't sure you could (1.8 adds one more territory to Norway), maybe the BT was split between 2 instead of one I guess, but basically if you want to go HRE, take one territory and start buttering up Austria, or do what I usually do and take Skane and Halland for yourself. Now if Sweden has its entire army on the mainland, you could give Sweden the territory right next to "sealand" and trap their army there, if you dont want to cheese just move your navy to sealand and dow Sweden. With their army trapped this is a cake walk, you may need to build some galleys to help hold the straight but they tend to leave you alone. They sometimes also bring in allies during the war, Ive seen both Scotland and Livonian order come to their aid; both of their navies can cause you massive problems so keep an eye on it.
Off Sweden I tend to take the territory joining up Norway to Skane, plus the northern "gold" mine in Dalaskogen! You can also get them to release Finland which will massively help next war with Sweden. If you gave them territory in Denmark, then Denmark may Dow them, keeping them both weak. In my last game, Denmark took enough territory off Sweden so I could vassalise Sweden in the 2nd war!
After youve vassalised Sweden and taken everything else from Denmark... then its tricky. Due to England actually building a proper navy I feel they need to be exterminated early while you potentially have a massive tech advantage. Scotland can be vassalised in one war, France cant reach you if you destroy their navy so dont worry about the guarantee but do be prepared to wait 5yrs for the new timer to finish for 100%.
During all these, you can guarantee/ally Novgorod to keep Muscovy down, but I find that they kept dragging me into wars with Muscovy just as I went to pull trigger on England which annoyed me, but every Norway game Ive ever had has been ruined by Russia, so worth it perhaps.
So yeah, Norway! Enjoy.
. Right so the following will always work, after that its up to you... Day 1, start fabricating on skane, ally with sweden and get support of the Hansa (if they dont rival Denmark they won't help you mind). Move your fleet to join Swedens. Once Denmark drops troops off at Gotland you can declare independence and your combined fleets will crush Danish fleet. Quickly start to siege Skane and Halland (the Danish territory between you and Skane if its called something else). After you dow Denmark, start fabricating claim on Dalaskogen in Sweden.
Now the next bit depends on how you want to go forward, I haven't joined the HRE in 1.8 yet, I wasn't sure you could (1.8 adds one more territory to Norway), maybe the BT was split between 2 instead of one I guess, but basically if you want to go HRE, take one territory and start buttering up Austria, or do what I usually do and take Skane and Halland for yourself. Now if Sweden has its entire army on the mainland, you could give Sweden the territory right next to "sealand" and trap their army there, if you dont want to cheese just move your navy to sealand and dow Sweden. With their army trapped this is a cake walk, you may need to build some galleys to help hold the straight but they tend to leave you alone. They sometimes also bring in allies during the war, Ive seen both Scotland and Livonian order come to their aid; both of their navies can cause you massive problems so keep an eye on it.
Off Sweden I tend to take the territory joining up Norway to Skane, plus the northern "gold" mine in Dalaskogen! You can also get them to release Finland which will massively help next war with Sweden. If you gave them territory in Denmark, then Denmark may Dow them, keeping them both weak. In my last game, Denmark took enough territory off Sweden so I could vassalise Sweden in the 2nd war!
After youve vassalised Sweden and taken everything else from Denmark... then its tricky. Due to England actually building a proper navy I feel they need to be exterminated early while you potentially have a massive tech advantage. Scotland can be vassalised in one war, France cant reach you if you destroy their navy so dont worry about the guarantee but do be prepared to wait 5yrs for the new timer to finish for 100%.
During all these, you can guarantee/ally Novgorod to keep Muscovy down, but I find that they kept dragging me into wars with Muscovy just as I went to pull trigger on England which annoyed me, but every Norway game Ive ever had has been ruined by Russia, so worth it perhaps.
So yeah, Norway! Enjoy.
what I did as norway is take scotland ASAP, take england down when you have the chance (england is really weak in the early game), after conquering the british isles you will be a superpower
That is the best way to crush danish early, but Skane mite put you over the join HRE thresh hold. I also found out that a vassal will put you over the limit, but you can make them a march and still join.
Joining the HRE certainly gives you some massive bonuses, so its tempting, having skane really hurts denmark and boosts your own limits/tax receipts as well. I suppose theres always another war.
Ive been to war with England before with tech 7 vs their tech 4. However I didnt have another ally thinking id be fine... the naval invasion AI has certainly been improved, I had Portugal and Brittany dump troops into Sweden and my navy was locked down by the considerably better Royal Navy. So worth having France as an ally just for that war to keep em busy.
Ive been to war with England before with tech 7 vs their tech 4. However I didnt have another ally thinking id be fine... the naval invasion AI has certainly been improved, I had Portugal and Brittany dump troops into Sweden and my navy was locked down by the considerably better Royal Navy. So worth having France as an ally just for that war to keep em busy.
Norway is one of my favorite EU4 nations. It was very fun to move capital to the new World and colonize there, but know with -50% it's not so great.
The cheese with Sweden's army trapped in the middle of the Baltic is gamebreaking really (I posted a screenshot of it on the first page). The 1444 opener is common for almost everyone (bring the hansa and sweden with you then dow denmark) but then the alliances can vary a lot. I couldn't take down Sweden by myself because of the alliance with Muscovy, and even Sweden alone is freaking terrifying with those godly generals. I got Sweden piece by piece because my ally denmark would declare war on livonian order every 10 years or so, with me and sweden as co-belligerents, granting me one province every time. I went explo/expansion/quantity, the 5 colonists are really helpful. I am alone in North America, The Portuguese have settled many colonies in the Caribbean and in Texas, I plan to steal everything soon with my mighty fleet. 187 Navy force limit in 1540 is just wrong, Portugal is second with 93 only...Norway thread, always my cup of tea
Right so the following will always work, after that its up to you... Day 1, start fabricating on skane, ally with sweden and get support of the Hansa (if they dont rival Denmark they won't help you mind). Move your fleet to join Swedens. Once Denmark drops troops off at Gotland you can declare independence and your combined fleets will crush Danish fleet. Quickly start to siege Skane and Halland (the Danish territory between you and Skane if its called something else). After you dow Denmark, start fabricating claim on Dalaskogen in Sweden.
Now the next bit depends on how you want to go forward, I haven't joined the HRE in 1.8 yet, I wasn't sure you could (1.8 adds one more territory to Norway), maybe the BT was split between 2 instead of one I guess, but basically if you want to go HRE, take one territory and start buttering up Austria, or do what I usually do and take Skane and Halland for yourself. Now if Sweden has its entire army on the mainland, you could give Sweden the territory right next to "sealand" and trap their army there, if you dont want to cheese just move your navy to sealand and dow Sweden. With their army trapped this is a cake walk, you may need to build some galleys to help hold the straight but they tend to leave you alone. They sometimes also bring in allies during the war, Ive seen both Scotland and Livonian order come to their aid; both of their navies can cause you massive problems so keep an eye on it.
Off Sweden I tend to take the territory joining up Norway to Skane, plus the northern "gold" mine in Dalaskogen! You can also get them to release Finland which will massively help next war with Sweden. If you gave them territory in Denmark, then Denmark may Dow them, keeping them both weak. In my last game, Denmark took enough territory off Sweden so I could vassalise Sweden in the 2nd war!
After youve vassalised Sweden and taken everything else from Denmark... then its tricky. Due to England actually building a proper navy I feel they need to be exterminated early while you potentially have a massive tech advantage. Scotland can be vassalised in one war, France cant reach you if you destroy their navy so dont worry about the guarantee but do be prepared to wait 5yrs for the new timer to finish for 100%.
During all these, you can guarantee/ally Novgorod to keep Muscovy down, but I find that they kept dragging me into wars with Muscovy just as I went to pull trigger on England which annoyed me, but every Norway game Ive ever had has been ruined by Russia, so worth it perhaps.
So yeah, Norway! Enjoy.
The cheese is the caveat for sure. Be it the territory + no MA (which frees your fleet) or just using your fleet to sit there (which is mild cheese in comparison). The old Muscovy was my favourite ally in a straight up fight, even Denmark used to be a good ally - all picking on Sweden.
But they can raise an army of 16 straight away, Denmark hate you so no alliance there, the Hansa won't join you in anything but wars against Denmark and thankfully Novgorod aren't too bad at keeping Muscovy in check until you can turn your full attention to them. Its all personal preference of course, but Norway strat is almost the same as Byzantine opener tbf. The last time I beat Sweden in a "no-cheese" war, I had access to scorched earth plus above allies, theyre all gone now which sucks.
But they can raise an army of 16 straight away, Denmark hate you so no alliance there, the Hansa won't join you in anything but wars against Denmark and thankfully Novgorod aren't too bad at keeping Muscovy in check until you can turn your full attention to them. Its all personal preference of course, but Norway strat is almost the same as Byzantine opener tbf. The last time I beat Sweden in a "no-cheese" war, I had access to scorched earth plus above allies, theyre all gone now which sucks.
Only had time to try one game at start for now, to see what the new stuff does.
-Allied Sweden+support from Hansa &co -> easy independence, as usual
-Took no land from Denmark, allied Novgorod, waited for inevitable...
-Sweden attacks, together with Scotland. They are defeated through attrition and superior numbers
-Took lots of (relative to Norway) rich provinces from Sweden, finally could field a decent army and navy
-Turned on Denmark and took rest of peninsula
-Got in trouble fighting rebels and Muscovy aggression at end of session (1462)
Some observations:
-With AE tied to base tax, you can now take huge swathes of poor land w/o angering everybody. For example all the good land in Sweden in war #1, and vassalize the rest in war #2.
-Unfortunately, as tempting as this is, taking tons of land with the new unrest/autonomy system means either (extremely well-organized) rebellious provinces or provinces with so high lebels of autonomy that you cant squeeze them much. The system is great, I must love it. The smart move is to give more freedom to swedish/danish captured provinces because you dont have the manpower to beat them while looking for new targets... but man that is difficult to admit, want to destroy opposition instead.
-So easier to take land, more difficult to own it.
-Naval AI is better. Both allies and enemies are better at landing troops to attack and support with transports. Important for navy-dependent Norway. Luckily you still sink an entire navy in one battle, so plan well and wipe them out
Many questions must still be answered. Is it worthwile to build large Sweden/Finland vassals and annex them now? Cheap land for little AI and less autonomy, but more rebels, could be better to simply take everything. Got to take Exploration as idea group one or two as before, but now cant lock down most of new world so easy anymore. Must be easier to crush the british isles later on now, can take more at once. Should do it to lock down North Sea node. Muscovy mopped the floor with Kazan at start, they are as bad as ever. What to do about them? Must play more to find answers.
-Allied Sweden+support from Hansa &co -> easy independence, as usual
-Took no land from Denmark, allied Novgorod, waited for inevitable...
-Sweden attacks, together with Scotland. They are defeated through attrition and superior numbers
-Took lots of (relative to Norway) rich provinces from Sweden, finally could field a decent army and navy
-Turned on Denmark and took rest of peninsula
-Got in trouble fighting rebels and Muscovy aggression at end of session (1462)
Some observations:
-With AE tied to base tax, you can now take huge swathes of poor land w/o angering everybody. For example all the good land in Sweden in war #1, and vassalize the rest in war #2.
-Unfortunately, as tempting as this is, taking tons of land with the new unrest/autonomy system means either (extremely well-organized) rebellious provinces or provinces with so high lebels of autonomy that you cant squeeze them much. The system is great, I must love it. The smart move is to give more freedom to swedish/danish captured provinces because you dont have the manpower to beat them while looking for new targets... but man that is difficult to admit, want to destroy opposition instead.
-So easier to take land, more difficult to own it.
-Naval AI is better. Both allies and enemies are better at landing troops to attack and support with transports. Important for navy-dependent Norway. Luckily you still sink an entire navy in one battle, so plan well and wipe them out
Many questions must still be answered. Is it worthwile to build large Sweden/Finland vassals and annex them now? Cheap land for little AI and less autonomy, but more rebels, could be better to simply take everything. Got to take Exploration as idea group one or two as before, but now cant lock down most of new world so easy anymore. Must be easier to crush the british isles later on now, can take more at once. Should do it to lock down North Sea node. Muscovy mopped the floor with Kazan at start, they are as bad as ever. What to do about them? Must play more to find answers.
Just to comment on this quick, diploannexing a vassal starts the newly acquired territory at 75% local autonomy, so it most certainly is not less autonomy than invading and seizing the land. I would imagine a Theologian would be your best bet.
How did you manage to beat Sweden with your army+Novgorod's? With lucky nations on it's almost impossible to beat his 3-star generals even with twice his numbers.
Raising autonomy in a recently acquired province costs nothing, not even MPs. In 1.7 you had to spend MIL points to achieve a similar result. The copper province might be the only one worth crushing revolts for, the income is too juicy. The other provinces give negligible income compared to the real boon in this area : the Lübeck node with nearly 40 trade value to steal in 1444. You need as many light ships as possible, do the math and you'll realize that every ship nets you around 3x the maintenance cost...Local autonomy does not reduce naval forcelimit, so just profit.
(The reason for this nonsense is that the trade power flows upstream and steals everything from the land nodes : wien, saxony, rheinland, etc. PLus the fact that all HRE minors are busy pulling trade for me. This is totally broken, landlocked states are totally screwed because they can't possibly destroy your fleet. The propagation of TP should be cut by half at least, this would buff continental powers like Austria but this is necessary anyway)
Locking North America from the European powers is doable (even in 1.8) if you take full colonization ideas (explo/expansion/quantity) and hunt the "colonial enthusiasm" mission (without any rival I have much more interesting missions, plus the excellent missions for army tradition).
Ok so the situation improved when Sweden declared on Novgorod. I used this opportunity to declare on Sweden myself and call Austria in. I lost a few battles in Scandinavia, and the Austrians lost whole 10k stacks against the übermensch, but in the end (and with Lithuania's help), we prevailed and I took 3 provinces from Sweden (the rich copper one, on Finnish province and another one in between). I was also able to take Aberdeen by trapping Scotland's army in Shetland. I also vassalised Pommerania in this war (I put them as co-belligerent).
After that, I declared on Novgorod, calling their rival Lithuania in. I fed all Finnish cores to my newly released Finland vassal, and took the two White sea provinces for myself, and gave one claim to Lithuania to keep them happy. This might have backfired since Muscowy was able to annex Rump-Novgorod in one go. However, they took Religious as their first idea and are unlikely to colonise anytime soon. I can also release Novgorod from the two provinces I have and try to feed this new vassal, should I do that?
Another war against Denmark netted me 2 more provinces and Denmark is now of vassalisable size, but Sweden took the opportunity to take Skane, Blekinge and Gotland. I fear I have to attack them soon to feed more Finnish provinces and take some richer Swedish ones for myself, but none of my great allies (Austria and Lithuania) would join at the moment and I'm not sure I can defeat them with my vassals (Pommerania/Finland).
Finally, Scotland/France won a war against England and Scotland took Cumbria (France took Calais). Scotland is still under 100% to vassalise (as I took Aberdeen) and could nicely be fed Norgelaw. But how easy is it to win this France/Scotland war? I'm guessing I would have to wait 5 years to get the 100% I need from Scotland.
Also, I took Maritime as first idea and I'm spamming very cheap light ships (Norwegian -20% and later on Maritime -10% and another -10% from Norwegian ideas) and getting rich in Lübeck. I want to take out great Britain fast so that I get North America at my own pace without Exploration ideas (but with Norwegian ideas and Expansion).
After that, I declared on Novgorod, calling their rival Lithuania in. I fed all Finnish cores to my newly released Finland vassal, and took the two White sea provinces for myself, and gave one claim to Lithuania to keep them happy. This might have backfired since Muscowy was able to annex Rump-Novgorod in one go. However, they took Religious as their first idea and are unlikely to colonise anytime soon. I can also release Novgorod from the two provinces I have and try to feed this new vassal, should I do that?
Another war against Denmark netted me 2 more provinces and Denmark is now of vassalisable size, but Sweden took the opportunity to take Skane, Blekinge and Gotland. I fear I have to attack them soon to feed more Finnish provinces and take some richer Swedish ones for myself, but none of my great allies (Austria and Lithuania) would join at the moment and I'm not sure I can defeat them with my vassals (Pommerania/Finland).
Finally, Scotland/France won a war against England and Scotland took Cumbria (France took Calais). Scotland is still under 100% to vassalise (as I took Aberdeen) and could nicely be fed Norgelaw. But how easy is it to win this France/Scotland war? I'm guessing I would have to wait 5 years to get the 100% I need from Scotland.
Also, I took Maritime as first idea and I'm spamming very cheap light ships (Norwegian -20% and later on Maritime -10% and another -10% from Norwegian ideas) and getting rich in Lübeck. I want to take out great Britain fast so that I get North America at my own pace without Exploration ideas (but with Norwegian ideas and Expansion).
Yeah winning the war is easy, its the waiting 5yrs part that sucks, 5 years of no autonomy going down or WE going down... your navy will keep France at bay. I haven't tested the guarantee + co-belligerent thing though. I'm curious to find out if a no-cb dow on an irish minor with scotland being their ally would still bring in france. I should hope it would but again not tested... (used to be SO easy taking out Scotland ).
England is a must to kill, I don't know how but in one of my games their force limits just kept going up n up. In the space of 15yrs or so, they went from about 35 army to 55. At that point I just couldn't fight them and started again having learnt the 1.8 features. If you could destroy their navy in a straight up battle, then france/austria might actually be useful and drop troops off to help.
I also wonder if its worth warning Muscovy + taking out Novgorod. France sucks sure, but Russia is Russia and I hate them in this game
).England is a must to kill, I don't know how but in one of my games their force limits just kept going up n up. In the space of 15yrs or so, they went from about 35 army to 55. At that point I just couldn't fight them and started again having learnt the 1.8 features. If you could destroy their navy in a straight up battle, then france/austria might actually be useful and drop troops off to help.
I also wonder if its worth warning Muscovy + taking out Novgorod. France sucks sure, but Russia is Russia and I hate them in this game
You are correct. They had a 5-star shock general this time too (usually game over). But I stayed allied with Hansa after fighting Denmark, so they joined in too. They shipped troops to Norway to help after we took out the navies, and with them attached I could win.
Aha. Excellent, your wisdom of Norway starts is good. I think "give autonomy" is best option after conquest then, for the same reasons you listed. I wanted the manpower from all of the peninsula to help field a real army (like previous versions) so decided against more autonomy. But fighting the inevitable patriot rebels drains all your manpower *and* cash for mercs, so it is probably not worth it. Better to keep provinces as naval/trade bases for the near future perhaps.
So In my first Norway attempt in 1.8.1(or whatever the beta patch was called) I managed to break free and grab a province from sweden and one from denmark. Joined the HRE shortly after and then grabbed some stuff from Novgorod and released Finland from them as an OPM. Then I decided I had to deal with Scotland and was gonna plan how to do that, plus gotta take back rightful norwegian clay and all that, and noticed something very odd. Turned out that while I'd been busy in the east, Leinster had attacked Scotland and taken the highlands province in a war from them. So I bri- err befriended them and made them my vassal since they were, for some reason, wuving me beforehand. Probably because Scotland was my rival. I still don't get how OPM Leinster managed to beat Scotland let alone get enough warscore to steal such a big province. :laugh:
did you go for independence fighting both Sweden and Denmark? Thats pretty hardcore
I have a question about Norge missions , are they the same as Sweden and Danmark ? Because it's a bit boring to have the standard missions
Don't put me on a pedestal. I was using cheats to test out the new stuff to see if the HRE strategy was still valid(plus some other strategies and the like that I wanted to see how they worked) and didn't have the time left to do it legit during this round as I only had about two to three hours left.