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The problem 'Why attack the US?" also works the other way around, a human player playing the US will be as aggressive as Germany ever was. World in Flames had a system called US-entry points. When someone did something bad, such as declaring war or take different political options like occupying the Rehinland if you were France they got a varying amount of US-entry points. When total axis points minus total allies points were above 30(i think) the US could declare war, it also got easier for the US to go in the longer the war dragged on. I think a variation of this could be usefull since it models the opinion in the US for war, if France appears to be more aggresive than Germany they might feel that they had occupation comming, and also ensures that the US will get into the war sooner or later but not to soon. By having the axis player know that the US won't let you get away with everything and will probabely enter the war sooner or later you would also motivate the historical declarations of war,perhaps not the German one but at least Pearl Harbour, since the player knows what the historical axis thought they knew.
This is a great idea. The Axis powers are free to do what they want; and yet, the grim outcome of their continued conquests could be what they fear the most: the American entry into the war.
This idea has some very interesting strategies attached to it for the Axis players. . .
World In Flames' US entry system also provides great stress in a multi-player game involving a separate Soviet player...an independent Soviet player can really make the CW and US players grimace with all sorts of aggressive adventurism, complicating US entry even further.
US entry in WIF
Just to add more detail to how US entry is handled in World in Flames, only the US player knows exactly how close he is to being able to declare war on Germany and/or Japan, as the number of "points" accumulated is kept secret. This results in a fine balancing act for the Japanese player, as he wants to wait as long as possible before declaring war so as to be able to build up his military forces, but doesn't want to wait too long, as the "surprise" bonus modifiers for the first turn of an attack can be critical in his attempt to take out as much of the US Pacific Fleet as possible. So he will usually wait for a while, and then when he thinks the US is close to being able to declare war and feels that he cannot risk any further delay, he will declare war on and attack the US with a pre-emptive strike. Again, the surprise bonus modifiers are crucial in helping to damage as much of the Pacific Fleet as possible, allowing him a free hand throughout the rest of the Pacific. In addition, if the US was able to declare war first, then they would have an opportunity to launch their own surprise strike. It is very rare to see the US actually declare war first, and if it does happen, it is a huge blow to the Japanese, and often seals their doom.
Just to add more detail to how US entry is handled in World in Flames, only the US player knows exactly how close he is to being able to declare war on Germany and/or Japan, as the number of "points" accumulated is kept secret. This results in a fine balancing act for the Japanese player, as he wants to wait as long as possible before declaring war so as to be able to build up his military forces, but doesn't want to wait too long, as the "surprise" bonus modifiers for the first turn of an attack can be critical in his attempt to take out as much of the US Pacific Fleet as possible. So he will usually wait for a while, and then when he thinks the US is close to being able to declare war and feels that he cannot risk any further delay, he will declare war on and attack the US with a pre-emptive strike. Again, the surprise bonus modifiers are crucial in helping to damage as much of the Pacific Fleet as possible, allowing him a free hand throughout the rest of the Pacific. In addition, if the US was able to declare war first, then they would have an opportunity to launch their own surprise strike. It is very rare to see the US actually declare war first, and if it does happen, it is a huge blow to the Japanese, and often seals their doom.
Curious whether there will be things like "war weariness" for nations involved in the war. In other words, will Germany and Japan fight to the bitter end, if played by the AI? Or will they reach a level when they will surrender (like Italy did in 1943)? What should happen with other nations?
Also, the Pearl Harbour attack galvanized the American will to fight and it prompted the nation to gear for total war production. What if there is NO Pearl Harbour? If America then declares war on Germany and/or Japan, should there be the same level of domestic support and production capacity? Or should that level of support and production be reduced. . . ?
Also, the Pearl Harbour attack galvanized the American will to fight and it prompted the nation to gear for total war production. What if there is NO Pearl Harbour? If America then declares war on Germany and/or Japan, should there be the same level of domestic support and production capacity? Or should that level of support and production be reduced. . . ?
I believe "war weariness" will be covered by the dissent level of the domestic population.
The effects of the japanese not doing a Pearl-style attack, should, if any, not be too severe for the US. Otherwise a human Japan would simply not attack Pearl.
In the case of a US dow vs the axis, maybe US disstent levels should be a fraction higher, and war production a fraction lower, but not so much that it seriously hinders the US war effort.
This might not be "historical", hard to say really, but for reason of play balance I think it will be the best solution. No sane human axis would declare war on the US otherwise.
The effects of the japanese not doing a Pearl-style attack, should, if any, not be too severe for the US. Otherwise a human Japan would simply not attack Pearl.
In the case of a US dow vs the axis, maybe US disstent levels should be a fraction higher, and war production a fraction lower, but not so much that it seriously hinders the US war effort.
This might not be "historical", hard to say really, but for reason of play balance I think it will be the best solution. No sane human axis would declare war on the US otherwise.
In the unlikely event the United States went to war in...say the spring of 1941 would they declare war on both Germany and Japan? If only Japan what would their strategy be? Move large naval and air units to the Phillipines and use it as a base for attacks?
Assuming by that time that Germany has over-run Western Europe, the gamer playing as the US would probably want to keep Britain afloat to fight the Germans, so would probably declare war and start sending aid.
With Japan, a declaration of war might also be feasible, but the US could conduct a defensive war, as it did historically, until its war production was going full tilt.
It will be interesting to see how events are played out in situations like this, and whether they imitate what historically happened. . .
I believe that would be a mistake, since the Phillipines would be almost, if not totally, surrounded by japanese bases.
OK so what would you do? Start harrasing the Japanese with subs? Engage them in major naval battle? Who would win?
Assuming I had some time, but not long, to prepare, and that everything else had progressed more or less historical. Which means the bulk of my land forces, and some of my navy would be needed in ETO.
In the preparation phase I would have reinforced my pacific holdings so that the japanese would actually have to fight to get them. Guam, Wake, Midway , Dutch Harbour and Pago Pago would get a division or two each, and some planes if I deemed them expendable. Some of them would also get a small naval force, no CVs, no BBs.
The Phillipines would get enough to force the japanese to commit a substantial part of his marines and fleet. Most subs would be based on the Phillipines as that is closest to the japanese convoys. I would also place some planes there, figthers and naval bombers, maybe some older models with short range if available. There would also be a naval task force, 1-2 carriers, 1-2 BBs.
Hawai would get daunting defences, including marines and some AA, lots of planes, the bulk of my pacific surface fleet, and transports.
If I had marines and transports to spare I would place some of them on the other bases above, where they would threaten to invade any crucial area left undefended, including Japan itself.
If Britain has left some of his pacific holdings undefended I might reinforce them, most notably Rabaul and the islands to the west and south of it. Any british player foolish enough to leave India, Australia or New Zealand undefended deserves to lose them, but I would probably show mercy and reinforce them, that would most likely mean sending less forces to ETO.
The Oil fields in NEI would be reinforced, if possible, and if otherwise left undefended.
This setup will force the japanese to commit substantial forces to attack the Phillipines and NEI. If he dont it will probably spell the doom for his convoys and war industry.
I would send some ships and planes to find out if the Japanese had made any "deployment blunders", like leaving Japan undefended, if so I would attack these targets of oppurtunity. The forces commited to these ventures would probaly be lost, but they could seriously delay the japanese time schedule.
While the Japanese is busy attacking the Phillipines I would attack the Mariana islands and possibly Truk, with my forces based on Hawai. The subs based on the Phillipines would hunt convoys farther north, hopefully out of range from the japanese invasion fleet, but they are expendable so it doesnt matter that much.
After the initial engagements and as my industrial might can be brought to bear it would be island hopping in the pacific with the goal of invading Japan proper, and recapturing the Phillipines. In the opening stages of the war I would be cautious with my fleet, but as new ships are launched and I gain naval superiority I would commit it more often and at worse odds.
This is a fairly cautious strategy, but probably needed against a human opponent. Against an AI opponent I might try a more aggresive strategy, like swapping the forces in the Phillipines for the ones on Hawaii, cept the subs. Still I would focus on capturing japanese bases between the Phillipines and Hawaii before I turned my attention elsewhere.
Another risky, but potentially decisive, plan might be to deploy the bulk of your total naval force, including the atlantic fleet in the Phillipines, together with all the planes you can muster, and grund forces to protect them from invasion, add in some RN ships and planes in Singapore. Then you would force the japanese to an early and quite possibly decisive naval battle in the South China Sea. If you lose you will probaly need 2-3 years to recover, the japanese would never recover.
I would win
Seriously, the US will probably win in the long term no matter the strategy.
I cant wait to play this game.
Great analysis Ktarn
If the human is playing the USA, what strategy (ies) should be programmed for the AI playing as Japan?
Should there be options for historical and non-historical setups?
If the human is playing the USA, what strategy (ies) should be programmed for the AI playing as Japan?
Should there be options for historical and non-historical setups?
'What if' Germany doesn't attack USSR, and USSR ranks along the Axis? Then Germany+USSR+Japan+Italy should be able to overcome UK+France in a first phase, and USA in a second and last one. Of course, that would require a lot of diplomacy between the Germans and the Soviets, but that would give the Axis a real chance.
If the Soviet Union joined the war on the axis side the war would end with a stalemate of sorts or decisive axis victory. It depends on the level of cooperation. Butthe germans could quite easily overrun the middle east and close the med while the Soviets could grab Iran, Afghanistan. German and Soviet forces could drive the British out of India and join hands with the Japanese.
Most likely Japan would still be quite vunerable in the long run even with the Soviets on their side. The US would wear them down and in the end defeat their navy.
Most likely Japan would still be quite vunerable in the long run even with the Soviets on their side. The US would wear them down and in the end defeat their navy.
Originally posted by The Federalist
Great analysis Ktarn
Thank you
I should say that its heavily influenced by my WiF experienceThough question. I am very curious about how well the AI will handle the various aspects of the game. I fear that there will be various AI "aspects", for diplomacy, research, combat and movement and that it wont be able to coordinate the various fields of the game to a coherent strategy.
The Japan AI should attack China early in the game, around 1937 I expect a "Peking bridge incident". There should be some probability of an early war with USSR, around 1938-41, but higher probability for a neutrality pact.
Japan should not be very active on the diplomatic front. In research it should focus more or less on historical strengths, figther planes, naval bombers, naval tech, some land doctrine, some radar, not much panzer, even less ASW.
The AI should have a high probability of starting the pacific war with a Pearl Harbour style attack, but it shouldnt necessarily take place at Pearl, but rather at one or more allied fleets in the pacific.
NEI, the Phillipines and Singapore should be top priority targets. Malaya, Burma, Guam, Midway, Dutch Harbour and allied ports between Truk and and NZ-Aus could be 2nd pri targets.
3rd pri; , Pago Pago, Ceylon and other remote allied ports.
There should also be a possibility of the japanese launching an attack on the primary british holdings in the area, India or Australia, and possibly NZ. Some possibility of an invasion of Hawaii.
Of course there must be some flexibilty to this, the AI should attack lower pri targets even thou it hasnt captured all higher pri targets. The level of defence should be a factor when choosing which targets to attack.
There should be plenty of land forces to defend its pacific holdings, and whatever it has captured from the allies.
The IJN should be active early on, egaging enemy task forces, but not too far from friendly bases, except for initial strikes. After substantial losses the fleet should be used mainly to supply island garrisons. I know the japanese didnt do much to protect their convoys, but I would prefer the AI to do some effort here, the compromise could be that the research AI should not be geared towards ASW.
It would be interesting to have a choice. Historical setup, where the units are deployed as per their historical deployment. OR Free setup, where you get the same forces, but are free to deploy them in any controlled area, or even some sea zones.
If the USSR joins the Axis, would this be a cake-walk for the Axis side? I wonder if there should be something to prevent this?
Even though Stalin had a pact with Hitler, would he really have joined forces with him to attack other countries?
The USSR joining the axis should be a possibility, but it shouldnt happen often. The actions of the Allies should be able to affect this.The attack on Poland was to some degree a joint USSR-German attack, and probably could have featured more co-operation.
Wheter they join forces or not, the lack of an eastern front would leave the germans with plenty of forces too use elswhere. Invading fortress Europe without the eastern front would be real challenge.
This will be a tough thing to do. But given Paradox's work on EU and EU2 (very complex games), I have a lot of confidence in them.
With Paradox's support, I can imagine the game being tweaked continously to give us a very playable and tough AI. . .