Strat Bombers and lvl 1 Airfields

[GLENN]

As mentioned; "In HOI, a level 10 airfield would be maxed out in terms of logistical support whereas a level 1 airfield might only have a hanger or two and a control tower. This is why planes regain org/manpower quicker at the higher level airfields."

Sounds like the re-organization needs to be tweaked to give you more of a penalty when you have more planes than maxium level.

 

[unmerged(38925)]

As mentioned; "In HOI, a level 10 airfield would be maxed out in terms of logistical support whereas a level 1 airfield might only have a hanger or two and a control tower. This is why planes regain org/manpower quicker at the higher level airfields."

Sounds like the re-organization needs to be tweaked to give you more of a penalty when you have more planes the maxium level.

I'd rather just see a maximum to the number of groups you can place there. I don't think you could even fit 50 squadrons worth of B29s on most of the pacific islands if you flattened the entire island and lined them up in rows touching each other. But in HOI2 you can put a level 1 airfield on wake island or midway and do just that.

 

[unmerged(52507)]

I'd like to see some more features of airfields included. I think a minimum for the twin engine types could be a lvl 2 and for the four engine types a lvl 4. Single engine only on lvl 1 airfields.

 

[henryjai]

i don't agree with OP's idea, instead i would like each type of aircraft have a "weight" and would fight only most efficiently if the airfield could support the weight,

if the weight is exceeded,

in case of runway catering the defenders should suffer higher losses. and scrambling should not work @ 100% efficiency

there would be a maximum amount of planes able to fly from that base, say, a base could only accomodate 4 figher wings having 5 fighter wings in it , the exceeding one would have difficulty taking off.

this idea would be more moddable, also.

 

[unmerged(52507)]

What is wrong with giving the weight according to engine number? That is much more simple, whilst still adding a degree of realism.

 

[warchlak]

+1
IMO it could be a really realistic improvement to have number of plane limitation and type of plane limitation according to the base size. Tell me if I'm wrong but in HoI2 as soon as you have a airport in a province you can put as many airplanes as you want.

 

[Darlor]

Anyone who has been to the annual EAA fly in in Wisconsin will quickly realize that even small airfields can handle a very large number of planes. The limitation is not the numbers of planes that a small strip can handle but the logistics of moving in aviation fuel, housing, and munitions. If the road network is good, even this is not a problem.

I fail to see the logic driving this desire to restrict the basing and operation of air power in any area that has a decent logistics support network. Check the old war documentaries and you will see even large bombers operating off grass strips, granted not for long and not in the rain but it was done. If the bombs and gas could get there, they could fly.

 

[el alamein]

There have been a couple of threads with a similar topic in earlier HOI3 discussions. The main reason why I have supported this idea in my earlier thread was mainly to increase realism in the Pacific region, and to make capturing provinces with airfields much more important. If you look at any of the Island Hopping campaign by the Allies in the Pacific, nearly all of the airfields needed to be extended/enlarged/upgraded either by base troops or in many cases Seabee or engineer battalions. The capture of islands/airfields was crucial to project airpower in the region. These bases usually only had the capacity for single engined bombers until enlarged. If strategic bombers can base and operate from a level 1 airfield, then there is no incentive for a player to enlarge that airfield. If, on the other hand, the airfield size restricts the type of planes that can operate, a player will take much more care of his airbases and think in a more strategic manner when deciding where to attack next. As the player expands the airfield size, so can he then base larger plane types which will in turn project air power in that province/s and give him an edge over his opponent. This was the major factor in Macarthur's drive in the SW Pacific from New Guinea to the Phillipines.

 

[unmerged(131342)]

I always thought that in HoI the "level" of the airfield represented the density of single airfields in the province? In Germany at least, each "Gruppe" (4 squads = ca. 60 planes = ca. 1/2 HoI squadron) had its own airbase. So I thought the more airfields a province had, the more single units could be maintained effectively. Of course on islands like Truk a lvl 10 airbase might represent one single base with loads of buildings, but on the vastness of Russia I'd expect to see several smaller bases concentrated near strategic towns, which could be added up to a "level" in HoI...

Exactly. If you look at the coast of france as an example, there's only a few airbases there in HoI. In reality there were many, many small strips along the coast and deeper inland. For large operations the planes would meet up in-air. Sinlg elarge airfield are simply too much of a juicy target, so IMO the airbase level means the total number of airfields or the concentration of airfields in the area.

 

[unmerged(110317)]

I am totally game for a limit to the number of air division to an air base.

Lets face it B 29 operated from the most primitive Air fields in India, China and pacific Islands.

But to have large numbers of them operating from an airbase will demand more air fields or larger airfields which is represented in HOI2 by air base size. Its a combiation of the two.

Maybe a size factor may help. B 29 require larger/more airfields ( High Air Base count ), Fighters demand less ( Less Air Base count ). Tac Bombers somewhere in between. But each air base has a count capacity. So either few B29s can operate or alot of fighters.

Techs for Airfield would be nice though, as with Fortifications and Sub Pens

 

[unmerged(44926)]

Weren't most runways of the WWII era dirt strips? I remember reading something, admittedly long ago, about how even in Britain concrete runways were a rarity simply because repairs were so much easier on dirt runways. This might have just been during the Battle of Britain though. I don't see flying something like a B-24 off of a dirt runway as being very efficient, especially considering how much rain the UK gets.

Either way, the true constraint would indeed be the base infrastructure rather than available runway space. Landing heavy bombers in a jungle clearing with a few tents and a hastily built radio tower is not impossible, but that isn't, and shouldn't be, an ideal place to support a round the clock bombing campaign.

What the game should do is have a refitting period between air missions during which the planes cannot take off again. Larger airbases would allow for heavier planes to be re-equiped faster, as well as allowing for more wings to operate in the same province without bogging things down. I guess it's similar to the frontage concept they are implementing for land units, only the capicity can be increased through building. Basically a level 1 airbase wouldn't allow for much more than a single wing of fighters to operate at full efficiency, but a fully developed base (or probably network of bases at that point) could keep several wings of heavy bombers going around the clock.

 

[unmerged(134661)]

I think we all agree that HoI 2 was significantly weak in modeling airfields and making them as strategic as they should be.

So, personally, anything that helps make a high level airfield strategically vital, is a vast improvement.

So far, I've heard:

• Restricting plane classes by size of airfield
• Making the defenses of the airfield stronger with higher level airfields and reducing likelihood of planes being destroyed on the ground
• Putting a refitting timer after each mission with penalties placed on smaller airfields
• Limitations on the number of wings stationable on a single airfield

To me, any one of these or a combination would be a great addition for HoI3 and I hope PI considers them.