if you have a ship in a strait and you lose the province necessary to pass the strait, your fleet can remain indefinitely there. of course once you leave you can't move back but you are not forced to leave. any way to fix it or is it intended?
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Makes sense to keep it WAD, there are RL scenarios where the canal was blocked by ships in the strait (1956 for instance).
But does it make sense to prevent Gibraltar from being amphibious attacked? There is at least one RL instance where it was (1704 capture by Britain).
But does it make sense to prevent Gibraltar from being amphibious attacked? There is at least one RL instance where it was (1704 capture by Britain).
In such a situation, from where would the now isolated fleet draw its supply?
From its stockpile. But where should the ship move to in order to increase the stockpile?
So then wouldn't it be both more realistic and cleaner in game terms to simply have them scuttle?
Consider the game's Suez canal. A trapped fleet would prevent the new province occupier from moving land troops across the canal. I assume that the new occupier would still trace supply across the canal ? The trapped fleet could threaten invasion if it happens to have some loaded transports. Isn't the problem self correcting in that the trapped fleet eventually has to leave or suffer attrition strength loss ? It would be quite severe to enforce skuttling of the fleet. Couldn't the new occupier just send their own fleet to force the trapped fleet out, while setting up an ambush in the adjacent sea zones ? That would be a good incentive to leave, unless the trapped fleet was very strong. Air bombardment would also help encourage the trapped fleet to leave. An AI controlled fleet might not get that message.
I might well be mis-remembering, but my understanding is that the trapped fleet can't leave.
Because the 'sentinel' province is enemy controlled it can't enter or leave the strait or canal. If that's indeed the case then the real life take on the situation is that you have a fleet doing nothing apart from sailing back and forth (or in the case of Suez not sailing at all) waiting for fuel, supplies, and enthusiasm for the cause to run out. The game situation is that you have a fleet that sits there for up to a month waiting for supply to run down, then for many more months slowly decaying to the point of extinction. To me, the real life scenario seems extraordinarily unlikely, and the game scenario fanciful and just plain clumsy .
if only you couldn't leave a strait if it's occupied by enemy. the thing is, uk can leave a submarine in the suez canal and after losing suez province that sub blocks land unit's movement indefinitely. it will run out of oil and supplies but it doesn't matter. ships do not melt away like land forces when out of supplies. that sub can float there literally for years. also it's very hard [close to impossible] to spot him in suez canal with 50% asw efficiency and outdated destroyers [the italian starting navy]. so no matter you know it's there, no matter you send all your destroyers and subs on the same sea zone with asw patrol, no matter you send naval bombers on naval interdiction mission there and no matter the enemy sub don't even have fuel to run, you won't cross the canal with land units.
last game the same problem also occurred with trapped subs in the mediterranean. uk has some subs there, gibraltar and suez is closed for a year and no allied port "inside". the trapped ships can float there for years harassing transports... even lvl2 dive boats acts like modern nuclear-based subs and can stay on open waters for very long periods.
i propose a naval unit completely out of supply should suffer the same attrition level as land units [35% per week] to overcome this issues. No military unit can operate without food and fresh water [at the very least].
last game the same problem also occurred with trapped subs in the mediterranean. uk has some subs there, gibraltar and suez is closed for a year and no allied port "inside". the trapped ships can float there for years harassing transports... even lvl2 dive boats acts like modern nuclear-based subs and can stay on open waters for very long periods.
i propose a naval unit completely out of supply should suffer the same attrition level as land units [35% per week] to overcome this issues. No military unit can operate without food and fresh water [at the very least].
To eliminate issues with blocked straights and trapped fleets you need to re-target or remove ports that lead into them. So no fleet is trapped in ports without valid exid zone if a straight is blocked. AFAIR for the Suez canal there are som inland ports to eliminate and 2-3 others need a new exit zone (and the port icon moved).
Good to know, Denniss. So most of us could mod this feature for ourselves with a little effort and an assist from the modding tutorials floating round the place.
I'm altogether with mcganyol on his last point though. As things stand, being "as idle as a painted ship upon a painted ocean" can become an enduring but influential feature of AoD play.
I'm altogether with mcganyol on his last point though. As things stand, being "as idle as a painted ship upon a painted ocean" can become an enduring but influential feature of AoD play.
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The mod to provinces is rather easy but the game engine needs about 15 minutes to rebuild the naval distance database.
If you remove a port you also need to remove an existing beach AKA is a beach is specified for a province it always needs a port exit zone.
The placement of the port icon may be a bit tricky, AFAIR you have to tangle with some coordinates.
If you remove a port you also need to remove an existing beach AKA is a beach is specified for a province it always needs a port exit zone.
The placement of the port icon may be a bit tricky, AFAIR you have to tangle with some coordinates.
Thanks again Denniss - you might have saved me a gallon of frustration. I've messed around with coordinates before when trying to create and modify canal connections, and though I was ultimately able to get it together there was a lot of hair-tearing involved. Perhaps I'll leave it to the pros.
Should the wider issue of fleets trapped in the Mediterranean Sea for years and not suffering much attrition loss be addressed? eg Axis closes the Med sea, WAllies have no ports in the Med sea for resupply. Their trapped fleets last a very long time intact.
Abso-bloody-lutely it should. As an Axis player they're the bane of my life!
As far as I'm concerned, the only positive thing that can be said on the topic is that AoD's treatment is way better than DH originally handled things - so that gives you an idea of how poor that system was. DH has done something to improve their game in this regard, I reckon an effort from AoD in this direction is well overdue.
As far as I'm concerned, the only positive thing that can be said on the topic is that AoD's treatment is way better than DH originally handled things - so that gives you an idea of how poor that system was. DH has done something to improve their game in this regard, I reckon an effort from AoD in this direction is well overdue.