Straits

[unmerged(58575)]

I think it's a good idea with the straits that were put between close (even places that were not so close) provinces like (Kent/Calais, Sjaelland/Jylland etc.).

Actually if your fleet controls the sea prov with a strait isn't it easier to have a strait to walk over than load/unload troops? (let's just say that your fleet load/unload your troops but you don't have to put them in the ships) This makes important places for naval warfare too. The one controlling the strait gets the right to invade the other/A defence for others invading you.

and when no one has a navy you still can walk over. Have you ever heard of fishing ships and ferrys?

Hope this is included in EU3 too because I have heard a lot of negative thoughts about it.

 

[Belissarius]

I think it's a good idea with the straits that were put between close (even places that were not so close) provinces like (Kent/Calais, Sjaelland/Jylland etc.).

Actually if your fleet controls the sea prov with a strait isn't it easier to have a strait to walk over than load/unload troops? (let's just say that your fleet load/unload your troops but you don't have to put them in the ships) This makes important places for naval warfare too. The one controlling the strait gets the right to invade the other/A defence for others invading you.

and when no one has a navy you still can walk over. Have you ever heard of fishing ships and ferrys?

Hope this is included in EU3 too because I have heard a lot of negative thoughts about it.

Well no actually. The idea the Kent and Calais is an easy strip of water to cross simply isnt true. That strip of water isnt easy to cross at all. You need a NAVY to cross. you need ships and alot of them to cross with an army.

The bosferous is the exception. Its such a narrow water way that its is a place that you can cross without a navy. If fact it is the only natural water way that a land force can actually stop a naval force from sailing through it. The reason for this is teh currents. A sailing ship could only go up the bospherus along a very specific route that was close enough to the shore to be stopped by land artillery. The Romans actually blocked the straight with chains. Not a SINGLE chain which is imposiple but likely a series of chains attacked to poles/towers set at intervals across the striaght. For most of the chains need never be built to be retractable because ships cant effectly sail through that area. Only in narrow pathways need the chain be retractable to allow vessels to pass through.

It has been the failing of far too many military land leaders who view straights as nothing more than a large/wide river crossing. Sjaelland/Jylland straight has the problem that its possible to sail on the demark side to stay out of effective range of sweedish guns or on teh swedish side to stay out effective range of danish guns. But a fleet of either nation along with thier guns could block the straight. the british in both thier attacks on copenhagen in the Napoleonic Wars, was able to get past teh straights twice because the fleets never sailed out to met the british in teh straights.

Straights should NEVER be crossable by land troops without ships. The exception is the bosperous. Straights should never be blockable with ONLY land troops again with the exception of the Bospherous. Straights allow navies to force battle should the enemy sail through them. Thats the power of straights.

 

[Kedryn]

I always get really annoyed when troops can just walk between areas like Apulia/Sicily, Asia Minor/Balkan Peninsula, England/France, Siberia/Alaska. Sure, it cuts down on troop/transport micromanagement, but it's just so... I dunno, it seriously annoys me when troops pull a Jesus and walk across the Strait of Gibraltar. Maybe it wouldn't be so annoying if my imaginary 'fishing boats' could ram their imaginary 'fishing boats'.

 

[Mats_SX]

I like straits and totally agree on having them, even in the very disputed areas like Kent-Calais, Sicily-Apulia, Scania-Sjaelland etc.

Straights should never be blockable with ONLY land troops

To my knowledge it was NOT possible to block a strait with land troops...?

The point is that you shouldn't be forced to build up a big expensive fleet (heck, in the start you are unable to build transports and therefore forced into poor galleys or expensive warships) to cross a more or less narrow body of water. The main argument against using straits seems to be "naval supremacy", but that is never a problem IMO. If the enemy has a fleet greater than yours (if you even have one; f.e. a land-locked France or Austria wanting to invade England or Sweden) they very effectively can stop you from using the strait by just putting a simple ship there. Even if both sides do have a navy (say Eire vs Scotland) the strait is unuseful, since if they engage there noone of the sides can cross, and after the battle the losing side could just come again and eventually win and the strait's power is lost. IMO the strait makes for a more smooth gameplay so that (with an ounce of imagination) the game situation don't always becomes so static; I have personally only played one game where an non-british AI nation got a taste of the British Isles (which of course SHOULD be very hard, but perhaps not THAT uncommon..?)

Another thing that could be added is that troops perhaps could walk smaller non-strait areas with freezing water like Sweden-Finland or ... well basically Sweden-Finland (it actually happended in history)

 

[billy bob]

I like straits and totally agree on having them, even in the very disputed areas like Kent-Calais, Sicily-Apulia, Scania-Sjaelland etc.

To my knowledge it was NOT possible to block a strait with land troops...?

Another thing that could be added is that troops perhaps could walk smaller non-strait areas with freezing water like Sweden-Finland or ... well basically Sweden-Finland (it actually happended in history)

Kent-Calais, NOOOOOO! France in very many of my games conquered England due to that.
Sicily-Apulia, Yes, benfitted much more than Kent Calais.
Scania-Sjaelland, yes in times of frozen. The Swedes managed to march across several time IIRC.
Gibraltar-Perhaps.

Other times I think straits should be allowed if the country owns both provinces. Like if the OE owns Cyprus and Tarsus(no idea if it actualy borders) then it gets a strait I think, but as soon as it looses control it loses it. Could prevent AI armies from staying from their capitol for centuries.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Other times I think straits should be allowed if the country owns both provinces.

What if the Kent-Calais strait worked like this. It would be both fairly historical and good for gameply. The strait couldn't be used unless one already had a foothold on the British Isles, and Britain could use it to defend Calais from a French (or other) invasion.

 

[unmerged(18992)]

I Agree certain straights should be put in (bosphoros etc), but for one such as Kent/Calais, or possibly gibralter tangiers, etc, the AI needs to be made REALLY Smart in its ability to defend them. Too many times playing EU2 I saw the French AI so easily march into england over the straight without the english navy even bothering to block it, when in reality invading england was often a very difficult thing to do!

 

[Reveilled]

I'd prefer it if amphibious assaults across straits were made impossible, in addition to it being impossible to cross with an enemy fleet present.

What I would really like, though, is for the movement AI to be able to find paths over water. That is, if I have an army in Genoa and a fleet in the Gulf of Lyon, if I try to move the army to Corsica it should move on to the ships and then unload in corsica. Better still, if I could give armies movement orders like that to more distant provinces, so much the better. Select a navy and an army, give it a move order to a distant province, and the navy would sail over, pick up the army, ferry it to the location and unload for me. So much less micromanagement would be unbelieveably good.

 

[unmerged(61941)]

I Agree certain straights should be put in (bosphoros etc), but for one such as Kent/Calais, or possibly gibralter tangiers, etc, the AI needs to be made REALLY Smart in its ability to defend them. Too many times playing EU2 I saw the French AI so easily march into england over the straight without the english navy even bothering to block it, when in reality invading england was often a very difficult thing to do!

Difficult, more like impossible. The last time England was invaded was a 1000 years ago by William the Conquer.

Julius caesar tried,
Napoleon too,
but they just made themselves,
look like fools,
oh bloody Britain!
Why can't you let us in,
why do we have to bash the door down,
just to be caved in?
Oh bloody Birtain!
Why are your boats bigger then mine,
why can't I get to the other side?
Oh Bloody Limeys!
Why can't you be like the French,
surrender and stop this silly dance,
Oh Bloody Birtain!

 

[unmerged(18992)]

Well yeah exactly, that was the last fully fledge invasion, although there have been others, such as numerous kings invading with support from whomever and leading little rebellions to take control.

But it is stupid that France Can march in and take london and end up getting lots of english territories so easily.

 

[Evie HJ]

While you do need ships to cross at Calais, it's not entirely illogical to assume that this could be done by commandeering various small civilian boats in the region and just going back and forth until everyone's on the other side, without requiring a dedicated fleet of large ships.

Of course, this should probably not be possible in a province that has enemy troops in it.

The reason it hasn't been done much historically might be this little thing called a Royal Navy.

 

[Sute]{h]

My main problem with removing straits is that it per default increases micromanagement. If the deployment of transports could be either abstracted or automated I wouldn't mind. I simply hate loading and unloading troops. Especially when the AI sails one ship by and stop me from loading into my huge armada. I know there are ways around this, but seriously I dislike the whole procedure.

An automation could be as simple as follows: You order an army to move across the English Channel. The nearest transports (with their escorts) automatically moves to the Channel and starts the loading and unloading. If you don't have enough transports to move the army in one go, then the army will be devided into smaller parts that your transports is capable to moving and assembled again on the other side once all the parts arrive.

 

[Registered]

Of course, this should probably not be possible in a province that has enemy troops in it.

That would allow a player (or the AI if it hs the intelligence) to bloack passage with olny a very small army. Better to allow crossings but give the crossing army an insanely high penalty if it comes to battle.

 

[Slargos]

The strait between dover-calais was a reasonable idea to fix an issue with english participation on the continent that didn't quite pan out.

Can't you people just let it go already? :wacko:

 

[unmerged(58575)]

hmm starts thinking of a swedish song:

När vi såg på varann och vi närmade oss strand, någonstans imellan Dover-Calais...

In the song they are on A ferry between Dover-Calais! (it was on a beer commercial)

I like the penelty idea if you attack through a strait. if it's -1 on the dice in a forest for the attacker, a fight over a strait will give -3 to the attacker.

 

[cool-toxic]

If we just get a better naval AI this problem with straits would be solved.

But still we keep some of the straits, but there should be two different types, one is the Bosphoros strait, a normal strait like in EU2 and then a strait that can only be crossed over when there's ice in the sea zones, like Jutland-Funen, Funen-Sjaeland Sjaeland-Skaane.

 

[unmerged(18992)]

The strait between dover-calais was a reasonable idea to fix an issue with english participation on the continent that didn't quite pan out.

Can't you people just let it go already? :wacko:

Well, Yes, it has benefits, But with all due respect, it has created a number of other imbalances. The AI Needs to be much smarter in defending something as vital as a kent calais straight.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

From the screenshots we've seen of the channel, there doesn't seem to be any straits there (thankfully), so that would suggest a decent navy will be required in order to conquer Albion; the way it should be

I wish they'd show us some nice screenies of the Holy Land

 

[Johan]

I wish they'd show us some nice screenies of the Holy Land

What?

We've shown Sweden at least on half the screenshot released!

 

[unmerged(37697)]

What?

We've shown Sweden at least on half the screenshot released!

:rofl: you should be writing up a new diary - featuring JERUSALEM