Strait for Kyushu/Kansai

[doktarr]

Kyushu (688) and Kansai (686) are not connected by land. At their closest they are 700m apart, which is comprarable to the width of the Bosporus. And it is only that wide for a brief stretch, not nearly as long as the Bosporus is that wide.

A strong navy should be able to block passage from Kyushu to Kansai. This land connection should be turned into a strait.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Kyushu (688) and Kansai (686) are not connected by land. At their closest they are 700m apart, which is comprarable to the width of the Bosporus. And it is only that wide for a brief stretch, not nearly as long as the Bosporus is that wide.

A strong navy should be able to block passage from Kyushu to Kansai. This land connection should be turned into a strait.

But there is no water between those two provinces on the map so they they would need to re-engrave the map. And the map won't be changed Johan have said many times. It is too much work apparently.

The alternative appears to be to have some kind of unvisible strait, wouldn't it?

-----

BTW, how did your WC try end?

 

[Hive]

But there is no water between those two provinces on the map so they they would need to re-engrave the map. And the map won't be changed Johan have said many times. It is too much work apparently.

Yeah, that'll have to wait for EU3.

 

[doktarr]

But there is no water between those two provinces on the map so they they would need to re-engrave the map. And the map won't be changed Johan have said many times. It is too much work apparently.

The alternative appears to be to have some kind of unvisible strait, wouldn't it?

Yeah, or just add the three stones. I don't see that as a problem. The popup will explain the situation anytime you can't move across, right?

BTW, how did your WC try end?

I've had very little time to play, but it's coming along. 1728, and I've force-vassalized the Ottomans. Next up is Delhi, which will be a LOT easier. There was a huge delay with the Ottomans because I needed a massive mediterranean fleet in order to blocade Thrace (mighty fortress). Eventually I got a 150 ship fleet all the way around Africa and got a 99% war score in under two years. Good times. Gotta bribe them up and bring them back into the fold, now.

My guess is I'll have the vassalizations done and I'll be set for the first round in a decade or so. I've added Songhai to my alliance (myself/Ottomans/Delhi/Uzbek/Songhai), so I'f I'm smart and avoid Swedish and French colonies there shouldn't be any "second front" wars in the first round.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Yeah, or just add the three stones. I don't see that as a problem. The popup will explain the situation anytime you can't move across, right?

Eh, I don't get it. What are those "three stones". Is that some kind of strait symbol I have missed?

I've had very little time to play, but it's coming along. 1728, and I've ...

Well, he who waits... Appears you are doing well. I would be very interested to hear about the continuation.

 

[unmerged(9146)]

Eh, I don't get it. What are those "three stones". Is that some kind of strait symbol I have missed?.

It's the symbol used to represent those straits that you can cross by land without the need to embark on ships.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

It's the symbol used to represent those straits that you can cross by land without the need to embark on ships.

Thanks Robin. I have never thought about it before. I've seen them of course but not reflected upon their meaning.

Incidentally I found there are three stones on all occasions but Shikoku-Kansai where there are five stones and between Jylland-Sjaelland-Skane where there are no stones at all. The latter probably means these two straits-working-without-fleet were defined as such after the release of EU2. Cannot remember.

-------

Whatever, the objection still is valid. To engrave water or stones is the same problem. It needs engraving and that will not be done.

 

[unmerged(9146)]

Whatever, the objection still is valid. To engrave water or stones is the same problem. It needs engraving and that will not be done.

I'm not really sure it's such a strict rule. I would have to do some more research on when was the last time the stones were added to the map, but a three-stone feature was certainly added in one of the patches - you don't have it on the map in 1.00 unpatched version, so maybe these changes are still possible.

 

[doktarr]

I'm not really sure it's such a strict rule. I would have to do some more research on when was the last time the stones were added to the map, but a three-stone feature was certainly added in one of the patches - you don't have it on the map in 1.00 unpatched version, so maybe these changes are still possible.

I believe the stones are placed not by modifying the map, but by reading the locations from strait.csv. As such, it's not strictly speaking a map modification.

And as I said before, the change could be made without any graphical change. There's no graphical cue that the Jylland-Sjaelland-Skane straits exist, and we have them. Why not have another invisible strait here? I don't think anyone can really argue with it from a realism perspective.

Here's a satellite image of SW Japan that clearly shows the seperation of the islands, and the tiny size of the area where the strait is narrow. It's more clear in the high-resolution versions that are linked on that page. This page contains several pictures of the bridge that crosses the strait at the narrowest point. That bridge has a main span of 712 meters, making it one of the longer suspension bridges in the world. Again, that's equivalent to the Bosporus.

Again, factually the existance of a strait here is beyond debate. Given that there are other places in the game where "undocumented" straits exist, I see no reason to not have one here.

 

[unmerged(9146)]

I believe the stones are placed not by modifying the map, but by reading the locations from strait.csv. As such, it's not strictly speaking a map modification.

I don't really think so because, as you write yourself, there's no graphical cue that the Jylland-Sjaelland-Skane straits exist, and we have them. If it was just the matter of reading the locations from strait.csv, would we have a three-stone symbol there, too?

 

[Nikolai II]

I don't really think so because, as you write yourself, there's no graphical cue that the Jylland-Sjaelland-Skane straits exist, and we have them. If it was just the matter of reading the locations from strait.csv, would we have a three-stone symbol there, too?

Because the stones are just symbols, reminders that it is possible to walk there.

You then have to add a land connection (in adjacent.tbl or somewhere, I'm not a map-modder) to allow troops to walk across the straight. (It is possible without changing the major map files, and is done in some mods to allow passage across Mongolian TI)

And to make the straight blockable by ships you have to petition to Johan, since those straights are defined in the .exe.

 

[doktarr]

Because the stones are just symbols, reminders that it is possible to walk there.

Right; they are analagous the the entries in province.csv that tell the game where to put the icon for a manufactory.

You then have to add a land connection (in adjacent.tbl or somewhere, I'm not a map-modder) to allow troops to walk across the straight. (It is possible without changing the major map files, and is done in some mods to allow passage across Mongolian TI)

And in this case, this is unnecessary, since there's already a connection.

And to make the straight blockable by ships you have to petition to Johan, since those straights are defined in the .exe.

And of course, that's exactly what I'm asking for.

 

[doktarr]

I don't mean to be difficult, but is there any way of knowing whether this might get implemented or not? No mods or bugfixers have responded here.

Once again, I am not asking for a map change, just an implementation of a strait in the exe file, like the ones around the Danish capital. I think that my above posts make a fairly indisputable case that there should be a strait.

 

[AndrewT]

If you can now walk directly between the two land areas because they are defined as adjacent land areas in the map definition, adding a strait graphic will not change that and will not mean a navy can interdict that movement. That would require an update to adjacent.tbl, which will not happen. The strait graphic is just that, a graphic, and is for human visual purposes only and has no effect on gameplay.

If there is an invisible strait there now then yes I can easily add the required graphic. But if that were the case you could already interdict that movement with a navy, which I think from your OP you cannot now do.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Can it be made a river crossing for combat and movement purposes? It ought to provide some penalty.

 

[doktarr]

If you can now walk directly between the two land areas because they are defined as adjacent land areas in the map definition, adding a strait graphic will not change that and will not mean a navy can interdict that movement.

Yes of course, I'm well aware of this and I don't see the need to add the strait graphic anyway.

That would require an update to adjacent.tbl,

Are you sure? I thought the straits were hardcoded (i.e. built into the executable) and there was no mention of them in the .tbl files. The only reason I've been asking here is because it was my understanding that this could not be changed in the mods, since we only have access to the .tbl files and not the excecutable files.

which will not happen.

Are you saying that there will be no further patches? If so... why does this forum exist? I don't mean that as a criticism, as lord knows you guys have gone far beyond the call of duty in updating this game. But if there will be no further updates... why do we still have this forum?

Or are you saying that there may be further patches, but they will only cover issues (like strait graphics or province cultures or starting relations) that can (relatively) easily be edited? I'm sorry for ranging OT here, but I'm trying to figure out what you mean.

Oh yeah, and Isaac's idea is reasonable as a fallback. It would be nice to be able to blocade, but putting in a river would have the other desired effects (defensive bonus and slower movement).

 

[AndrewT]

Adjacent.tbl would have to be updated to remove the current setting that they are adjacent as normal land provinces. EU2.exe would also have to be updated to include the strait, that's true.

While this is not official Paradox policy, my judgement is that there will be no more code changes to EU2. However I'm still gathering changes to the text files, and will release them as unofficial updates on occasion - there's a sticky thread in this forum for that purpose. I am also still gathering bug reports that would need code changes, if only for documentation purposes.

 

[doktarr]

OK, I've now reached the stage of annoying gadfly, but this will (hopefully) be my last try.

In the most recent betapatch, Johan replaced every land border into Venice with, effectively, an invisible strait.

I am asking for the same thing to be done between Kyushu and Kansai - the creation of an invisible strait. A navy in the sea of Japan should be able to block passage between the two ISLANDS. The justification here is, if anything, significantly more solid than in the Venetian case.

 

[AndrewT]

OK, I've now reached the stage of annoying gadfly, but this will (hopefully) be my last try.

In the most recent betapatch, Johan replaced every land border into Venice with, effectively, an invisible strait.

I am asking for the same thing to be done between Kyushu and Kansai - the creation of an invisible strait. A navy in the sea of Japan should be able to block passage between the two ISLANDS. The justification here is, if anything, significantly more solid than in the Venetian case.

What's wrong with the visible strait between them now?

 

[doktarr]

What's wrong with the visible strait between them now?

Huh? You must be thinking of the strait between Kansai and SHIKOKU. (There's nothing wrong with it, of course.) There is not strait currently between Kansai and KYUSHU - there is a land connection.

So... can we put a Venice-esqe strait here? It's undebatably justified. Just to re-state the obvious, Kyushu is an island, seperated from the rest of Japan by a sea, which narrows at one point to a strait. See links above for evidence if you remain unconvinced.