Stopped cold

[Brucesim2003]

So how is it that the belelux and western countries can stop my Germans cold? I have panzers and air, but it makes no difference. Doctrine is about 1/2 way down the tree. 18 divisions bounced of the Danish border ffs. I go with 9 battalion divisions, plus supports, so the divisions are not weak. I've tried attacking the Netherlands in isolation. Ive tried an attack all along the front with a panzer spearhead. Nothing I do gets a breakthrough. My assault on the west was about 160 divisions, plus the 18 against Denmark. In the west I've gotten a couple provinces in the Netherlands. Everywhere else I've been absolutely reamed.

As for the Luftwaffe, in the space of a couple months my single seat fighter stocks have dropped by over 1000 planes.

Every thing I've tried in the west has been an unmitigated disaster.

I'm all set to give up on this game as a bad investment.

 

[dave1233]

So how is it that the belelux and western countries can stop my Germans cold? I have panzers and air, but it makes no difference. Doctrine is about 1/2 way down the tree. 18 divisions bounced of the Danish border ffs. I go with 9 battalion divisions, plus supports, so the divisions are not weak. I've tried attacking the Netherlands in isolation. Ive tried an attack all along the front with a panzer spearhead. Nothing I do gets a breakthrough. My assault on the west was about 160 divisions, plus the 18 against Denmark. In the west I've gotten a couple provinces in the Netherlands. Everywhere else I've been absolutely reamed.

As for the Luftwaffe, in the space of a couple months my single seat fighter stocks have dropped by over 1000 planes.

Every thing I've tried in the west has been an unmitigated disaster.

I'm all set to give up on this game as a bad investment.

160 divisions is a lot. Are you overstacking the supply zones as that will hurt you?

Also, try using the battle planner to build up planning bonus and then deleting the plan and microing your troops. The planning bonus is really useful but the actual battle plan AI isn't that good yet.

 

[Dalwin]

So how is it that the belelux and western countries can stop my Germans cold? I have panzers and air, but it makes no difference. Doctrine is about 1/2 way down the tree. 18 divisions bounced of the Danish border ffs. I go with 9 battalion divisions, plus supports, so the divisions are not weak. I've tried attacking the Netherlands in isolation. Ive tried an attack all along the front with a panzer spearhead. Nothing I do gets a breakthrough. My assault on the west was about 160 divisions, plus the 18 against Denmark. In the west I've gotten a couple provinces in the Netherlands. Everywhere else I've been absolutely reamed.

As for the Luftwaffe, in the space of a couple months my single seat fighter stocks have dropped by over 1000 planes.

Every thing I've tried in the west has been an unmitigated disaster.

I'm all set to give up on this game as a bad investment.

18 divisions bouncing off the Danish border? Is that even possible? I routinely take Denmark in less than two weeks with 8 not so powerful infantry divisions. I have probably done this more than 20 times and never had anything bounce.

If you make sure that your units have their planning bonus, and assign even a token amount of air to support the operation, and issue the attack orders manually instead of letting the Battle Planer's unit controller tell your divisions to sit on their thumbs; then it should be a walk in the park every time.

 

[Brucesim2003]

160 divisions is a lot. Are you overstacking the supply zones as that will hurt you?

Also, try using the battle planner to build up planning bonus and then deleting the plan and microing your troops. The planning bonus is really useful but the actual battle plan AI isn't that good yet.

Nope, not overloading the supply net.

Doing as you suggest with the battle planner and microing is exactly what I'm doing.

The AI has (iirc) 30-ish division in the hook of holland area. Force density is about the same all along the front.

My infantry divisions are 9bns inf and a line arty and at, supports are eng, recon and hospital. I actually have troops waiting to enter battle in almost every single battle. And I get stopped in my tracks.

Difficulty is normal with no AI boosts.

 

[lihp]

So how is it that the belelux and western countries can stop my Germans cold? I have panzers and air, but it makes no difference. Doctrine is about 1/2 way down the tree. 18 divisions bounced of the Danish border ffs. I go with 9 battalion divisions, plus supports, so the divisions are not weak. I've tried attacking the Netherlands in isolation. Ive tried an attack all along the front with a panzer spearhead. Nothing I do gets a breakthrough. My assault on the west was about 160 divisions, plus the 18 against Denmark. In the west I've gotten a couple provinces in the Netherlands. Everywhere else I've been absolutely reamed.

As for the Luftwaffe, in the space of a couple months my single seat fighter stocks have dropped by over 1000 planes.

Every thing I've tried in the west has been an unmitigated disaster.

I'm all set to give up on this game as a bad investment.

This result like you stated is impossible. HOI4 in battle is actually easy - with this result you must have overlooked something or made a grave mistake you do not see.

Some suggestions:

1. Make sure your commander is able to command all your units. Having more than 24 divisions to someone limited to 24 is bad.
2. Something overseen by some: division in training during battle. Make sure training is turned off.
3. 9 BAT per division... depends on whats inside. If you have eg. 9 BAT of tanks only with that doctrine, you easily die a horrible death (lack of ORG). Moreso if its 1939/1940 and you are not at full production yet.
   
4. Your units must be in full supply for equipment. Even if you had a "killer division" with 4INF 1SPA + PIO + REC + ART and sufficient of them, you will die a horrible death, when they dont have equipment or lack manpower.
5. A panzer division is pointless without sufficient MOT or MEC. So in case of Panzer you need at least: 1 HARM, 4 MOT/MEC + support
6. Esspecially on Denmark you are easily on attacks over rivers or sea (to Svaland for example)... Amphibious tank attacks die a horrible death...
7. ...

Please check above poitns first.

 

[Brucesim2003]

18 divisions bouncing off the Danish border? Is that even possible? I routinely take Denmark in less than two weeks with 8 not so powerful infantry divisions. I have probably done this more than 20 times and never had anything bounce.

If you make sure that your units have their planning bonus, and assign even a token amount of air to support the operation, and issue the attack orders manually instead of letting the Battle Planer's unit controller tell your divisions to sit on their thumbs; then it should be a walk in the park every time.

See my previous post. 5 Danish divisions laughed at my 18 division army with full planning bonus.

 

[lihp]

Doing as you suggest with the battle planner and microing is exactly what I'm doing.

Maybe you micro wrong?

1. You want to attack an enemy province from multiple provinces at once.
2. You want to make sure your battle width is full (watch the battle and see if you do).
3. You make sure the terrain fits you (like I said: tanks above water is bad).

Sorry if I ask, but... what is your air doing? CAS? Do they actually attack? For CAS groups of 50 or less planes each.

 

[Brucesim2003]

This result like you stated is impossible. HOI4 in battle is actually easy - with this result you must have overlooked something or made a grave mistake you do not see.

Some suggestions:

1. Make sure your commander is able to command all your units. Having more than 24 divisions to someone limited to 24 is bad.
2. Something overseen by some: division in training during battle. Make sure training is turned off.
3. 9 BAT per division... depends on whats inside. If you have eg. 9 BAT of tanks only with that doctrine, you easily die a horrible death (lack of ORG). Moreso if its 1939/1940 and you are not at full production yet.
   
4. Your units must be in full supply for equipment. Even if you had a "killer division" with 4INF 1SPA + PIO + REC + ART and sufficient of them, you will die a horrible death, when they dont have equipment or lack manpower.
5. A panzer division is pointless without sufficient MOT or MEC. So in case of Panzer you need at least: 1 HARM, 4 MOT/MEC + support
6. Esspecially on Denmark you are easily on attacks over rivers or sea (to Svaland for example)... Amphibious tank attacks die a horrible death...
7. ...

Please check above poitns first.

I do know about division structure. Been interested in military history and To&E's for 30 years. Leaders are not over command ability. The Danes have stopped me at the border on the Jutland peninsular. No naval invasions involved.

 

[lihp]

See my previous post. 5 Danish divisions laughed at my 18 division army with full planning bonus.

Please post a save.

 

[Brucesim2003]

Maybe you micro wrong?

1. You want to attack an enemy province from multiple provinces at once.
2. You want to make sure your battle width is full (watch the battle and see if you do).
3. You make sure the terrain fits you (like I said: tanks above water is bad).

Sorry if I ask, but... what is your air doing? CAS? Do they actually attack? For CAS groups of 50 or less planes each.

The Luftwaffe is built to be fighter heavy.....and is getting slaughtered. Changed doctrine to the right hand one (can't remember the name). 1/2 way down that tree.

 

[lihp]

The Danes have stopped me at the border on the Jutland peninsular. No naval invasions involved.

Wait thats a lil bit different. Justland peninsula actually is a tough nut to crack if you gave them a chance to dig-in there.

Two choices:

1. Reboot and jet to Danemark once its started, esspecially the peninsula part.
2. Rotated attacks, preferably with 4MAR, 1 ART + PIO + ART. Rotated attacks work as follows: you start attack filling the width + some reserve. When its ticking down instead of up and your units start to get low on ORG, you initiate attack with your reserve (preferably better than the initial units), while also stopping attack of the initial units, once your reserve kicked in. Go on like that and chew em down. Against digged-in units with dig-in officer you have to chew. Also an additional amphibious attack helps greatly.

 

[lihp]

The Luftwaffe is built to be fighter heavy.....and is getting slaughtered. Changed doctrine to the right hand one (can't remember the name). 1/2 way down that tree.

Your Luftwaffe is slaughtered? What about CAS?

 

[Alex_brunius]

My infantry divisions are 9bns inf and a line arty and at, supports are eng, recon and hospital. I actually have troops waiting to enter battle in almost every single battle. And I get stopped in my tracks.

You normally want to use more then a single battalion of artillery in a division of 21 width such as the one you use.

The AI is using 2 line + 1 support artillery in their 20 width divisions which means they have vastly superior soft attack value and can murder your soft infantry, especially if they are defending and you are attacking.


What I do if I go for bigger divisions is keep the 9bns of inf, add 3bns of line artillery and 1 support artillery. Otherwise you can swap 2 of the starting 9bns of inf for artillery and go for the same setup the AI use (7+2) as well as support artillery.

Both of these are a bit more guns then in your ordinary historical OOB, but artillery in HoI4 at the moment is so powerful that you need lots of it. Also ensure artillery tech is if not rushed then at least on historical time at the latest. When you got to war as Germany you want to be pumping out alot of 1939 model Artillery guns.

 

[fabius]

Does sound really odd.

If non of the suggestion here work, then I guess post some screens may help, or watch a good replay or so on Ytube

Edited- I did have one game or so where it was slow going because of packed French and Allied divs in that area. Calling Italy in shifted many of them down that way.

 

[Commander-DK]

I haven't played Germany since about 6 months ago, but the air war i 1939 is a slaughter in Western Germany. I remember loosing 1000 fighters in the first few months but killing an equal or greater number of French and British fighters in the fight for control of the skies over Germany and the Benelux.

 

[Napoleonetniet]

some pictures or a savegame would help indeed

for denmark i usually use some infantry (to occupy the coastline once taken to ward off UK landings, hold ports and their capital after capture) and a few light armor divs. Parking the 2 BB's next to your fighting while moving to Copenhagen helps a bit too.

I use the light armor to push for the capital first, and keep them going , soon as the first province falls and the first tank div is inside instantly move it on in the hopes to overrun more often / more troops and to not allow them time to dig in or move on to the next province already..(specially dont want them reaching Copenhagen ) nor allow the broken ones that retreated to get far and regain org. (no delays, we brake for nobody, its a blitz! )

i have to actually boot up the game and check what i used last as composition for light armor at that point so im not giving false info ^^ but its not spectacular im sure.
standard i use a 8inf+engi or 9i+e for defensive or hold the line troops (act as coastguards/portguards too till i can replace them with my smaller coastguard divs.
7inf+2art w support art/engi/maint for pushing/attacking
my light armor composition at that point (march 1940) is 4-6 light tanks (II, no variants).with 3 mot, and arti,engi,maint,recon

in that quite lazy played testgame where i was actually only going to take poland, denmark, lowlands and france to do some testing on sub vs convoy warfare i had (just before hitting lowlands+denmark):
74 offensive inf. divs (3 armies) 7i-2art sup.:art,eng,maint
96 defensive inf. divs (4 armies) 9i sup.:eng.
9 light armor div : 4-5-6 light tanks II, 3 motorised, support: recon,engi,maint,artillery

only about 2 out of 7 of my artillery was artillery II, and < 7% inf. equipment II.

half the defensive ones were on the Sov. front keeping up appearances

i used one offensive army and the light armor on denmark, 4-6 light armor go for Copenhagen with some inf. aswell, the rest occupies the northsea coast, takes the ports and holds those.

TLDR: moving to Copenhagen the trick is to keep momentum going from the start, and use fast units to overrun and pin down units.