Stop with the Idiotically Stupidly Insanely Large Rebel Sizes

[hajutze]

The only rebels I've got up to this point
- 1 time to see the size
- another time when I sent troops to the lands with unrest and it got bugged I guess, after I covered all but 1 last province it jumped up from 85% to 100% and I got a stack
- I was in a big war, the provinces had some enemy stacks above them, let them spawn so they can kill eachother

I admit it, I really REALLY suck at the game and yet ... the rebels are hilariously easy to control. In order to have such a big problem with them you need to screw up intentionally.

It's not a rocket science - after you conquer a land -> increase autority, keep stability at 0 or more (even 0 works fine) and WE close to 0. Core as fast as possible. By the time they can spawn the unrest is so low it usually costs 30-50 MP to harsh once and that's about it.

 

[Vordeo]

The game still feels broken.

Fix please.

To be fair, it felt fine before the 1.8 patch. And it has to be said that several elements of the game feel like they've improved.

However, the rebel scaling is bloody awful, and needs adjustment ASAP.

Fact of the matter is, that the only way to get huge rebel stacks is to massively mismanage your nation. If you play impatiently, you'll pay a price.

Bull.

In the current system, generating pretty much ANY rebellion means getting several rebel stacks near or at your force limit, some with excellent generals.

I'd be perfectly fine with it if having, say, OE above 80-100% caused that, but when you're getting revolts of that size at maybe 20% OE? It's ridiculous.

 

[correctamundo]

Which 1.8 nation were you playing when you got a peasant's war?

Previous iterations where accepting rebel demands didn't give up territory don't count.



Spoken like a true player who only plays major powers.

No, it was way back, before I understood the implications of giving in to demands. Now I doubt I will trigger any peasant's war since I'm to aware of the triggers.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

No, it was way back, before I understood the implications of giving in to demands. Now I doubt I will trigger any peasant's war since I'm to aware of the triggers.

I'm referring to it now. If you get it, the amount of rebels you almost certainly can't stop from spawning, then enforcing their demands can easily be the same as fighting a war against France and France at the same time, with each France on the opposite side of you and a 3rd France that's a bit depleted to the North.

So you or I will avoid it, but someone who doesn't know about the manpower rule can trip it with relatively little distress in their empire otherwise.

 

[RJL18]

I love the new rebel mechanics. Literally the best change in the expansion. And I dont think they need rebalancing at all. Even if there is 40k rebels they will be split across multiple stacks and can be wiped out easily by half that number. Sounds like a L2P issue to me

 

[checro]

I love it too No more legendary armies on some god forsaken island in random times, yay...

Some tweaks maybe, but nothing much...

 

[Hirron]

Right now there is no "good" way to represent rebels or for that matter most war. Right now

. You are god to your army, Historically this was not true and the army was often a threat for those in power. The risk of breaking ranks was high and represented a real cost to rebellions.

. There is no nobility. Imagine if by declaring war on France half your country and army suddenly defected. Nobles historically were the providers of the army and you could risk losing large portions of your army were the nobles unwilling to join your war.

. Another risk was the economic damage to provinces from a rebellion. 6 months to completely repair a ransacked province that has been marched through by 20 thousand soldiers likely taking pillage from where they go is not realistic. Heck during the 30 years war the majority of the deaths weren't from battle but from soldiers repeatedly looting and as a result depopulating the same areas.

. Finally the large number of deaths is somewhat unrealistic as for the most part your units simply fled and couldn't be recovered. Likewise unlike rebels in game many rebellions would hide from the army. Realistically an intelligent rebel A.I would flee from province to province scorching earth and inflicting attrition upon the army. Would you rather fight a 12 stack that stays in one place or a 2 stack that moves as soon as you approach leaving a trail of scorched earth?

 

[Hirron]

I was unaware that 15 century European powers had the perfect administrative ability to draft every man of age. Nor was I aware that hordes possesed cloning machines that allowed them to extract an extra 50% of 100%.

It wasn't until the modern era that total war became possible.

 

[sr999]

We want Nazi Aztec Zombies invading France!:rofl:

I've already done it with my Castilian zombie Enrique, who successfully took Bearn and Labourd, see my bug report: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?813044-vampire-monarch-general-valiantly-fights-on-for-lesser-partner-of-personal-union. So I guess the Aztecs can do it too. The hard bit is reforming to... an appropriate alternative government type.

 

[Viperswhip]

I have had a few rebellions and seen a few in my ally territories, or within my view, my vassal I've fed gets them constantly.

They must emerge at some level related to base tax I would think. So, for example, I get 3 stacks of 15. These are fine if you can beat them, they have crap troops and crap leaders.

However, in Lithuana they couldn't beat the rebels, just cause them to withdraw, leading to a monster stack of 55 troops. Thus, a new nation within Lithuana is borne.

Rebels are fine if you deal with them properly, England shouldn't have issues, you have enough money now to throw mercs at the problem, take a few loans. If it happens during the 100 year war, you might be boned, but that's reality for you.

 

[Beagá]

The only rebels I've got up to this point
- 1 time to see the size
- another time when I sent troops to the lands with unrest and it got bugged I guess, after I covered all but 1 last province it jumped up from 85% to 100% and I got a stack
- I was in a big war, the provinces had some enemy stacks above them, let them spawn so they can kill eachother

I admit it, I really REALLY suck at the game and yet ... the rebels are hilariously easy to control. In order to have such a big problem with them you need to screw up intentionally.

It's not a rocket science - after you conquer a land -> increase autority, keep stability at 0 or more (even 0 works fine) and WE close to 0. Core as fast as possible. By the time they can spawn the unrest is so low it usually costs 30-50 MP to harsh once and that's about it.

That´s my impression too to na extent, but I still think that base unrest levels should be 20% lower and retarded stuff like Lollard revolts fixed.

The problem as usual isn´t the player, it´s the AI, that can´t handle the system well enough (yet)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I love the new rebel mechanics. Literally the best change in the expansion. And I dont think they need rebalancing at all. Even if there is 40k rebels they will be split across multiple stacks and can be wiped out easily by half that number. Sounds like a L2P issue to me

Cool irony bro.

 

[Denkt]

Rebels are many then they revolt but they seldom do.
They are easy to defeat, only one battle for each stack and alot of the stacks tend to lack even a general and often you can have a better general then most rebels.
They are only dangerous in some situations, in nearly all cases they are only a setback at their worst and often just a cost of manpower/money.

Size of the rebels are needed to even make them a treat at all, and like everything else in the game it is based on gameplay first.

 

[Afterthot]

Not sure what's causing this problem for people. I'm currently playing a Commonwealth game - I've prevented rebellions with every mechanic there is (harsh treatment, coring, culture convert, stability, war exhaustion, etc , etc.) I have on more than a few occasions allowed rebels to spawn because I had the resources/time to deal with them and wants to save MPs. The ONLY time I've had large stacks spawn was (in the 1550s) when I stupidly annexed land I meant to give to my Golden Horde vassal. So I had 112% overextension, -2 stability (ruler died followed immediately by stab hit event), prestige tanked due to events because of over extension, and had a pile of lands of wrong culture/religion. Even then, I was getting 29-36k rebel stacks, but my 30K army stack could take them without major issue.

I still find rebels to be more of a pain in the ass than anything else in this game, however, I've only got like 20 hours in the new DLC, so...

 

[Morgothic]

Just think of the rebel stacks as fighting with the SPIRIT and HEART of 14,000 troops.

Brilliant

 

[G_Morgan]

The problem with random rebels as they stand is the mechanic doesn't scale realistically with nation size. Once you get to France level then the occasional larger army than Trajan spawn can be handled. As you get smaller and smaller the rebel spawns become unreasonable and cannot be reasonably accounted for via good game play. At a certain point you are more or less hoping you don't get a spawn because if you do you restart your game.

I don't know what the right solution for rebels are but pretending it is balanced is just absurd. It works fine for nations that have already won in 1444.

 

[Beagá]

Ok people I officially declare: Playing as England is f***ed up.

1459 and TWO lollard revolts, each of 3 stacks totalling so far 98k rebels killed. And I will probably see one more, because:

The idiotic modifer ONLY expires in 1468. If I had lost the HYW bad, ok - but I did white peace after MUCH nail biting, and decent war exhaustion.

Really, Paradox? Too difficult to note that your most played country has a utterly stupid rebel spam?

 

[victimizer]

I wish there was some type of an 'insurgency' type of an event which would basically cripple the province economically and would eventually culminate in a larger revolt, unless you park a significant occupation force into the province to clamp down on it, where your armies would suffer attrition. This way, you wouldn't have these silly overmassive revolts, but unrest would still sap your manpower gradually.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

As others have noted, the rebels could/should spawn with no more than the maximum of what their main provinces could feasibly support.

How about some formula that calculates your Force Limit, considers the manpower capacity of the given provinces relative to the whole of your country, generates that many troops, and gives them automatic occupation of those territories?

The rebel AI is also fairly woeful. I've seen them sit on provinces they've already occupied, wait patiently while far smaller AI armies take back the land… they should behave like a proper army.

 

[atwix]

Is this a bug or WAD? I have 6k force limit yet 8 stacks of 6k rebels popped up simultaneously. I feel like it should have just been a single stack of 6 as dealing with 48k rebels with 6k troops isn't much fun. They're all Najd peasants.

welcome to the new mechanic. Its even worse if you start as an OPM. Still, you can handle it, or just accept demands.
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