Stop giving countries only 4 (or even less research slots)

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PanzerScouty

Sergeant
Nov 14, 2019
58
147
Hey guys,

so I have recently played Argentina and I noticed, you only get 4 research slots. Idk if the devs actually play their focus tree they design but it absolutly feels miserable to play with only 4 research slots.

I noticed this "trend" back in the day with Ethopia where only the Anarcho-Communists can get the 5th research slot. Then Norway only gets max. of 4 research as well. And I ask:

Why? Why do certain countries only get 4 research slot or the 5th research slot is locked behind an certain ideology? It partially feels like the Devs want us to play the "unpopular" political paths more like communism.

And yes I am aware some countries were not so well developed as others but thats hardly an reason or excuse to limit their max research slots.

I hope this "trend" will not continue as is bc. its not fun to play with only 4 research slots in total.

Thx for your attention and have an nice weekend.
 
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Based on previous feedback it is primarily down to the induvidual developer, so there does not seem to be any overarching plan or thought put into how reearch should scale in general. Still, as you mention Norway, that nation missing a 5th slot might just have been an oversight as there seems to have been a number of things slipping with that content. The dev. himself has not commented on that.
 
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you mention Norway
I knew when Norway was mentioned I would see you in the replies @herr anfsim. Keep fighting the good fight sir.

If the tree is balanced to have significant research boosts, then practically speaking you don't notice going from 5 to 4. Even Iceland can do fine on 2 for a run.

It's also helped by the insanely OP 35% viking attack buffs. Doesn’t Fascist Argentina get similar stupidly powerful bonuses?

I do wish the newer dlcs had better overall coordination than allowing this power creep however, the game becomes less about strategy as a result.
 
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I knew when Norway was mentioned I would see you in the replies @herr anfsim. Keep fighting the good fight sir.

If the tree is balanced to have significant research boosts, then practically speaking you don't notice going from 5 to 4. Even Iceland can do fine on 2 for a run.

It's also helped by the insanely OP 35% viking attack buffs. Doesn’t Fascist Argentina get similar stupidly powerful bonuses?

I do wish the newer dlcs had better overall coordination than allowing this power creep however, the game becomes less about strategy as a result.
Insane buffs do not justify not granting you the 5th research slot
 
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It was discussed back and forth in a thread under the exact same name as yours a while ago, and the arguments [for slot reduction] were unconvincing. Us having more research boosts from focus trees (which no one asked for) is hardly a valid reason as we may all witness an equal proliferation of industry popping up left and right in absurd numbers yet the base production remains the same throughout the game.

For me personally, 4 research slots cap is an instant no-play zone for same reasons I don't play with difficulty settings other than normal.

There's also an element of hoodwinking here, as it is hard to imagine say New Zealand being recreated now without all those innumerable modifiers nations like Finland or Iceland have received. And those goodies have far greater impact than NZ unlocking its "OP" 6th slot in 1941/42.
 
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so I have recently played Argentina and I noticed, you only get 4 research slots. Idk if the devs actually play their focus tree they design but it absolutly feels miserable to play with only 4 research slots.

If it is the case that Argentina lacks a 5th slot, while Uruguay and Paraguay gets 5, it does seem quite weird. Still, the developers have been quite clear that they do not strive for either consistency or balance, so "weirdness" is to be expected. Seeing as HOI4 already has acrued a lot of "technical debt" I doubt this is a good approach and I fear this will cause further problems down the road if tech is adjusted or rebalanced, like the developers have said they might want to do.

Speaking of Uruguay and Paraguay, I think the solution outlined in the DD and used in the generic tree is a good one, where a nation will not have 5 slots if played historically but will be able to get that last slot if evolving into a major or super power. This allows the developer to keep the challenging paths where a country will have less ability to do research, while avoiding the frustration of creating a superpower not able to do research on par with minors like Uruguay. The fact that this solution exists is probably the main reason that the arguments for denying a country 5 slots looks so unconvincing.

Reading the previous threads on the subject, the argument for limiting the amount of slots is often "I dont think you need more" rather than "I have so much fun being limited that way regardless of how I play". That might be something for developers to be conscious about.

I knew when Norway was mentioned I would see you in the replies @herr anfsim. Keep fighting the good fight sir.
Always! The Norwegian content kind of scratches that same itch as the old "air crash investigation"-shows that have been running for 20+ years. Come to think of it, that might actually be a sound business model :p
 
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I strongly support giving countries different numbers of research slots based on their likely capacity to ... carry out research in the 1930s and 1940s. That's a sensible and realistic limitation. It can be combined with NFs to steer countries (especially when AI-controlled) to play to their natural strengths.

I agree that it makes no sense at all for Paraguay to have more research capability than Argentina or Belgium.

I also think a good way to handle this would be to have NFs that grant Research Slots but have more intelligent conditions. For example, there could be an NF for the Paraguayan Institute of Technology or whatever that requires you to have at least 100 VPs or to have occupied at least one of Buenos Aires, Rio, São Paulo or Santiago de Chile. If you have conquered major population centres, then it's reasonable to expect your research capacity to increase.
 
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I strongly support giving countries different numbers of research slots based on their likely capacity do ... carry out research in the 1930s and 1940s. That's a sensible and realistic limitation. It can be combined with NFs to steer countries (especially when AI-controlled) to play to their natural strengths.

I agree that it makes no sense at all for Paraguay to have more research capability than Argentina or Belgium.

I also think a good way to handle this would be to have NFs that grant Research Slots but have more intelligent conditions. For example, there could be an NF for the Paraguayan Institute of Technology or whatever that requires you to have at least 100 VPs or to have occupied at least one of Buenos Aires, Rio, São Paulo or Santiago de Chile. If you have conquered major population centres, then it's reasonable to expect your research capacity to increase.
The great thing is that you could probably have all of this if it was approached differently. Countries could have different number of slots based on realistic capacity, while still having NFs granting research slots with intelligent conditions if said nations evolved beyond their initial capacity/potential. I think thats all anyone is asking for.

With Norway as example: It makes good sense that historical Norway does not have access to 5 slots. It makes very little sense that a Norwegian superpower that unites Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway under a new flag (and possibly parts of Germany, the UK and USA) is not able to do reseach on par with Denmark.
 
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I don't see the point for complain, fascist Brazil have only 4 and its fine.

The only tech tree with spreaded bonuses are the naval, but who care if uruguay get +5% capital ship atack arread of you?

All others research are too narrowed, unless someone want research ALL support companies, but this is just bad gameplay.

All minors nation need is infantry , 2 or 3 support companies, art, and keep alternating with industrial research: win. This can be done with 3 research slots.
 
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I don't see the point for complain, fascist Brazil have only 4 and its fine.

The only tech tree with spreaded bonuses are the naval, but who care if uruguay get +5% capital ship atack arread of you?

All others research are too narrowed, unless someone want research ALL support companies, but this is just bad gameplay.

All minors nation need is infantry , 2 or 3 support companies, art, and keep alternating with industrial research: win. This can be done with 3 research slots.
No thats not fine. In MP sessions this will quite hinder you if you play Brazil or Argentina.
Bonuses are quite useless if you cannot get ur tech up to date. Also the US can become fascist, with 6 research slots, conquer all of the Americas.
 
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No thats not fine. In MP sessions this will quite hinder you if you play Brazil or Argentina.
Bonuses are quite useless if you cannot get ur tech up to date. Also the US can become fascist, with 6 research slots, conquer all of the Americas.
Research are useless if u can't produce what your researching.

USA can conquer americas with 3 research slots, its just have industry and numbers, If El-Salvador have 6 research slots it won't will save El-Salvador from a USA invasion.

Infantry equipment just have 2 or 3 branches most of time, armor 3 branches, art 3.

If a USA player think he needs the 6 research slots to conquer all americas hes just bad a at game.
 
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Research needs an overhaul.
Most countries can get 4 research slots, while the most advanced ones on the planet can only reach 6.
That's not much of a technology gap as it should be.
Me putting Yugoslav military up to the standard of a German one in a manner of few years is ridiculous. Just because I made some right moves in research.
Although I guess these kinds of concessions to realism were made in order to have a viable playthrough with minor powers.
Still, I'd say research needs an overhaul.
 
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Research needs an overhaul.
Most countries can get 4 research slots, while the most advanced ones on the planet can only reach 6.
That's not much of a technology gap as it should be.
Me putting Yugoslav military up to the standard of a German one in a manner of few years is ridiculous. Just because I made some right moves in research.
Although I guess these kinds of concessions to realism were made in order to have a viable playthrough with minor powers.
Still, I'd say research needs an overhaul.
This is because research options is narrowed. Even 'right moves' seems a weirder concept, you have only infantry to research, as yugoslavia u don't choose between research infantry and a SHBB or a Strategic Bomber.

A solution would be just broken some bonuses into more tech options. if a 10% S.A buff with 1 research, is splited in 2 branches of 5%, that's mean a country with less research slot's should have to make a choice.

In hoi2 land doctrines was acquired by research, thats why right moves make more sense there.
 
They gave Brazil a world conquest achievement and then only 4 research slots.
 
They gave Brazil a world conquest achievement and then only 4 research slots.
Probably because their focus tree is insanely OP...
1710108939938.png
 
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Hey guys,

so I have recently played Argentina and I noticed, you only get 4 research slots. Idk if the devs actually play their focus tree they design but it absolutly feels miserable to play with only 4 research slots.

I noticed this "trend" back in the day with Ethopia where only the Anarcho-Communists can get the 5th research slot. Then Norway only gets max. of 4 research as well. And I ask:

Why? Why do certain countries only get 4 research slot or the 5th research slot is locked behind an certain ideology? It partially feels like the Devs want us to play the "unpopular" political paths more like communism.

And yes I am aware some countries were not so well developed as others but thats hardly an reason or excuse to limit their max research slots.

I hope this "trend" will not continue as is bc. its not fun to play with only 4 research slots in total.

Thx for your attention and have an nice weekend.
Should we also give minor countries the same industrial base as Germany because "its not fun to play with only 10 factories in total"?
 
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Probably because their focus tree is insanely OP...
View attachment 1092336

Once again you don't need a bunch of research slots to do a world conquest as previously mentioned by marcelo
Just because it's possible doesn't make it less annoying to be slowed down for no reason all game. As Marcelo stated above, you need the factories to produce what you make to begin with, so you're not making nations more powerful by giving them a fifth slot, just less tedious to play.


 
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Just because it's possible doesn't make it less annoying to be slowed down for no reason all game. As Marcelo stated above, you need the factories to produce what you make to begin with, so you're not making nations more powerful by giving them a fifth slot, just less tedious to play.


Linking a thread in which you got downvoted 4-1 and ratio'd hard by the game dev's themselves doesn't increase your authority on the subject
1710113896404.png
 
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