Still not very sure on how will the economic model work...

[unmerged(332)]

I've read Patric mentioning that POPs get their money from international trade and then taxes are deducted. Well that sounds ok, but what if you decide to build an autharchical nation?

If you try to totally neglect foreign trade (as a part of a crazy strategy) and grow using mainly your national strengths and resources. With no trade, your POPs would have no money? Would they be eternally unhappy then, even if you produced everything they needed at home?

And how will the trade model handle bilateral trade? Is there only the "world market"? Then if I sell weapons or a strategic commoditie, it could end up on the hands of my most hated enemy? This doesn't sound too good... :raspberry Can you determine your 'Most Favored Nations'?

Will POP merelly search jobs, or they will search better jobs, i.e. higher "paying" jobs. How will this be handled? Will the share they get from trade be defined by your social politics? And the speed from which farmers become labourers, will that depend on education budget?

Finally, will there be inflation on the various markets? If so, how will it impact international trade? If you have a higher inflation then your neighbours will you end up with a overvalued currency?

Too many questions, I know... I'm just anxious, I guess...

 

[Spruce]

internal trade and consumption is ok to support an economy - but not use it to its full potential,

a protectionist economy will lead to high prices on specific products and low prices and other products.

 

[Keynes]

US had relatively little foreign trade during much of this period; I would be interested to see answer. Patric's POP FAQ thread, if read literally, does seem to indicate that all income is derived from sales of goods on the "world market", but that FAQ does not purport to be a complete explanation of econ. system so I do not want to jump to unwarranted conclusions.

 

[Emre Yigit]

I hope that this will not be quite as bizarre as the Imperialism model, where the only money you got was what you earned from trade?

 

[unmerged(10416)]

The USA did have significant trade. Most of Europe imported grain (not only the UK) and this did have a profound effect. Friedrich Engels even mentioned in one of his articles (Die Mark, 1882) that the entire European agriculture would either have to convert from small farms to large agroindustrial combines and get large state subsidies or it would face extinction, because the American farmers with their near-ideal conditions in the midwest would drive them out of business.

He was fairly accurate, IIRC Germany and France instituted high tariffs on grain in order to keep their agriculture in business.

 

[Grosshaus]

Originally posted by Keynes
US had relatively little foreign trade during much of this period;

US was one of the biggest traders. UK relied of US cotton and all Europe (except Russia) used American grain already at 1860s.

 

[Keynes]

Grosshauss, Karl Martell:

US foreign trade was important in absolute terms because the US economy was so large. But in relative terms, foreign trade was not as significant a component of GDP as it was for the major European economies. Exports/GDP was well under 10% for the US during the late 19th century and declined continuously through 1920.

Thus in 1913, UK had over export/GDP of over 20%, Germany 18%, France and Italy around 15%, and the US only 6%.

 

[unmerged(19173)]

Originally posted by Karl Martell
The USA did have significant trade. Most of Europe imported grain (not only the UK) and this did have a profound effect. Friedrich Engels even mentioned in one of his articles (Die Mark, 1882) that the entire European agriculture would either have to convert from small farms to large agroindustrial combines and get large state subsidies or it would face extinction, because the American farmers with their near-ideal conditions in the midwest would drive them out of business.

He was fairly accurate, IIRC Germany and France instituted high tariffs on grain in order to keep their agriculture in business.

The US agricultural market is notoriously protected with tarrifs, quotas, red tape and etc. Just read what the other nations media is writing . Mmmm something in English? Try the Australian government official site:

Seek the removal of tariff rate quota restrictions on Australian exports to the United States, including those affecting exports of beef, dairy products, sugar, peanuts and cotton.

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by todorp
The US agricultural market is notoriously protected with tarrifs, quotas, red tape and etc. Just read what the other nations media is writing .

They're discussing the Victoria era.

 

[unmerged(332)]

The US was notoriously protectionist in the 19th century, which was pretty darn good for them...

And what about billateral trade agreements???? Has anyone read anything about them here?

 

[unmerged(3168)]

Hopefully your POPs will still get some income (value of the goods produced) even if the goods aren't sold on the world market. I wonder how the world market will work in terms of blockading ports can you stop goods leaving a nation entirely?

 

[Keynes]

Another possibility is that the "world market" will be modelled as an abstraction amalgamating both internal and external trade. I am very curious to find out how this is handled.

 

[Alerias]

My guess is itll be similar to EU2 in end results...

IE, you CAN live on only tax, production and gold mines, but trade on top would basically be free money.

If you have a balance of 150 in taxes, 80 in infra and 25 in gold, that 100 in trade you could be getting on top would make the difference between a great and a super power.

Yet, it was possible to do without.

 

[unmerged(20668)]

Alerias, have some faith in paradox

Though I am sure you are right that it will be possible for some nations to exist MONETARILY (if that is a word) on their own product, I think you would be hard pressed to find a nation with the resources, factories and sheer manpower to produce all the goods that will be required for your POP's. Remember, in this game goods are necessary for the POP's satisfaction, otherwise they will revolt or leave, so you can't just decide to stop producing or importing clothes and institute an "adam and eve" policy for your subjects. Same goes for coffee and antiques and furniture for our aristocrats (who, by the way, will probably be too afraid to live in a country with a bunch of naked people running around in the streets and parliament )

peace,

 

[unmerged(14180)]

One thing That imperialism had was the ability to attack trade ships when at war.

Unfortunately, it didn't work entirely, for example, if you, as Turkey, traded say 20 guns(not likely i know! lol) to Greece, then the British Navy could sink the ships sending them in the English Channel.......but im sure it could be fixed up somehow.

I guess we shall have to wait till either the game or the answers pop up.

 

[unmerged(2928)]

Then again, income from trade should not be the only element to discern the various POPs income. What about the Welfare state (which the screenshots show us in detail). Other element should be property of real estates (I wonder how will the decline of aristocracy be modled without this element).

 

[Spruce]

Originally posted by Kiith
Hopefully your POPs will still get some income (value of the goods produced) even if the goods aren't sold on the world market. I wonder how the world market will work in terms of blockading ports can you stop goods leaving a nation entirely?

like I said, there's nothing wrong with an internal market economy - but some parts of added value margin are lost due to trade at the world market,

suppose the Amercian colonies make lots of fur and the Japanese want the fur like hell! If the Britisch should blockade the colonies, the fur industry would still make money but looses margins due to not competing on the world market,

And economical and population growth is lowered due to scarceness on some resources (clothes f.e., iron goods etc.),

 

[unmerged(332)]

I cannot argue against the importance of foreign trade, but calling it the only source of income for any industry is pushing it a little too far...