Likely, he rushed the Ecumenopolis. Those can easily produce hundreds of alloys alone.
Still not producing nowhere near enough alloys
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I just wanted to say that alloys are not a problem if you play the system. And I do it without Ecumonopolis. Three planets, one for alloy, one for CG and one for science.
If you don't want to get a Ecumenopolis, a Forge World with 6-7 alloy plants and a Ministry of Production will get you your 200+ alloys per turn. Add Noble Estates for extra stability for even more alloys.
+50% base production, "slight buff"
The problem with defense platforms I see is that they have an not insignificant alloy upkeep, even before when they only had an energy upkeep I didn't use them often but now? Can aswell build more ships..
To be honest I'm the one who complained originally after 2.2 release that there's not enough alloy production in the game, but I think it's pretty all right now on patch 2.2.3. Last game I tried I didn't find Fen Habbanis and still managed to get around 200 alloys per month by 2300, and I did this by specialising planets with few resource districts into forge worlds + high research from my tech worlds leading to fast ministry of production (+15%) and high amenities (+10%). If you put enough pops to it, you can get enough alloys now and for me serious shortage where I still need to use market to supplement my alloy income ends towards 2270 unless there are very serious wars around me. And even then you can switch to militarised economy for another percentage bonus to alloy production.
Basically the name of the game is stacking production modifiers on your specialised planets.
Basically the name of the game is stacking production modifiers on your specialised planets.
By having fun producing consumer goods then exporting to the other AI empires for alloys. I'm not even using the galactic market.
small galaxy, 0.5x habitable worlds:
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Not the person you quoted, but I did figure out how the new economy works. Basically, I found that you're not going to have strong alloy production until you hit the tier 2 alloy foundry that also costs volatile motes to maintain. Once you get the tier 2 tech, your production will improve substantially with the additional 3 metallurgist jobs per building.
Now, what will happen at the same time is your base resource production will plummet as workers promote to specialists. Expect your mineral, energy, and food incomes to drop significantly. If you planned ahead of time, you should have very high stockpiles and enough energy to buy any resources that
I found that the economy tends to flow like this. I've played successful hive mind, 2 fanatic pacifist, and a regular conquering hegemony games once I figured it all out. I am not saying this is optimal; it's just my experience. I have not yet built an ecumenopolis, but I imagine they will accelerate what I'm describing below.
- First 50 years or so should focus on raw resource production until you can mine/manufacture volatile motes and get the tier 2 alloy foundry tech. Build alloy foundries and civilian factories on planets with a low number of resource districts. Build up big stockpiles of the 3 basic resources. If you have a large energy surplus, consider changing your trade law to the one that provides 0.5 EC and 0.25 consumer goods. Don't neglect your alloy foundries, but keep in mind that once you can upgrade them, you will not only lose workers but increase the drain on your mineral income. Do not build the commerce buildings that provide 5 clerk jobs. It's OK and actually preferred to have unemployed pops around the 2250 mark, because you want to plan ahead and reduce the strain on your overall economy once the workers promote.
- Upgrade your alloy foundries ASAP. You will see an increase of 150% to your alloy production once workers promote to fill the new jobs. If you planned ahead and left some unemployed pops on your forge worlds, you won't see your mineral/farm/EC income take a huge drop. If you didn't have excess pops, then your overall economy will take a hit. If your basic resource economy has deficits, then you need to be calculate how long your stockpiles will last. If they will last about 10 years, then don't worry about it; enough new pops will grow to fill in the empty worker jobs to bring things back to normal by then. If they will run out, then use the market as a short term measure to stay above 2k or so.
- Once your foundries are upgraded and your economy stabilizes sometime around 2280, your allow income should be around 200 or 250 per month and you'll likely be running a mineral deficit. The Ministry of Production is your friend; make sure to build one on your forge worlds. Don't forget that there is a policy that increases alloy production at the expense of reducing CG production. In my pacifist games, at this point I had to build the matter decompressor in order to maintain my mineral economy.
- With the matter decompressor and tier 3 techs, by 2330 my alloy production is easily at least 900 per month before fleet maintenance is taken into account. At this point, my main 2 problems are running out of energy due to fleet and starbase maintenance (not enough anchorages) and maintaining (aka replacing losses) fleets that can fight the Khan.
I'm at 400 Alloys in 2330. Only thing limiting me right now are minerals, but the matter decompressor is already under construction.
I ramped up my alloy production in the last decades. The first 100 years were a build up for that
I ramped up my alloy production in the last decades. The first 100 years were a build up for that
From my inward perfection + agrarian idyll game at year 2415: 30 systems, 9 planets out of 17 total have alloy buildings, with a total of 30 tier 3 alloy foundries. That adds up to 240 metallurgist jobs spread across those 9 planets. No special species traits that boost specialist production, so all bonuses come from stability, the militarized economy policy, traditions (all are unlocked), and production ministry buildings. 990 alloys produced per month, with 330 alloys taken up by ship maintenance for a net surplus of 660 per month.
I could have invested higher, but at this point I don't need to. My fleet cap is 800 and I am 400 fleet power over the cap. I can spam a full 200 FP battleship fleet and recover the alloys fast enough such that when the fleet is completed, I can make another. I may have to build more alloy foundries when one of the FEs awaken or the end game crisis appears.
The matter decompressor is the only reason I can support that level of alloy production. If I didn't have a black hole in my territory, I would not have been able to sustain that rate of production. I don't have a lot of natural volatile mote deposits, so I am relying heavily on chemical plants on my 2 habitats to maintain the alloy foundries.
I agree, it takes some planning now to make the jump to mass production of alloys. Was your experience any different from what I described above?
I am mostly playing hive minds and in my experience alloys aren't the problem at all, energy for the upkeep is the bottleneck and it's really thight.
You are just doing it wrong. Build more mines and forges.
BTW I just finished a game (2490) with about 10 planets, 1 eucomnopolis, 1 blackhole mine. I was pulling in well over 800 alloys a month supporting 4 80K fleets and over 20 fully upgraded starbases. Iron man, Grand Admiral, 3 x Crisis.
Again build forges. Aim for 8 fully upgraded forges by 2300. This is easy to do.
BTW I just finished a game (2490) with about 10 planets, 1 eucomnopolis, 1 blackhole mine. I was pulling in well over 800 alloys a month supporting 4 80K fleets and over 20 fully upgraded starbases. Iron man, Grand Admiral, 3 x Crisis.
Again build forges. Aim for 8 fully upgraded forges by 2300. This is easy to do.
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Guess I teched up a lot faster than you did. (Technocracy)
I got ecus up after 60 years or so, so I never had more than 4 tier 1 alloy forges. But besides that pretty similar
what difficulty are u guys who making 200plus alloys in 2300 playing with? I barely make 280 alloys in 2430, and I have a very thin margin w minerals, have to buy them on the market. But I got a very tall empire, playing criminal syndicate, so not a lot of planets coz 50% cap penalty increase is a big killer for corp authority. I Just started building matter decompressor site tho, maybe it will help.
also whats the trick to unlock all traditions trees by 2300, how is that possible. I understand spamming unity buildings, but all unity buildings eat up a lot of consumer goods, so how can u sustain that
also whats the trick to unlock all traditions trees by 2300, how is that possible. I understand spamming unity buildings, but all unity buildings eat up a lot of consumer goods, so how can u sustain that
I'm in 2295 and only *just* unlocked HoloTemples -- otherwise though I've been trying to max Unity (Inward Perfection, Spiritual, got an Artist Enclave in my territory, nominatng Saints, etc.) -- and I've unlocked 4 trees and am halfway through a 5th. So I can see how if I had gotten the HoloTemple unlock 50 years earlier and wasn't worried about Alloys that it could be done.
Not sure how you'd do BOTH, though, get lots of Alloys and lots of Unity without some sort of weird build that I'm not familiar with (or some very lucky conquests).
BarnCape, they're talking about total Alloys, not surplus. In the same game I'm at maybe 110 Alloys total in 2295, and my build isn't completely designed for it, so I can see how 200 by 2300 is doable for the pros. Are you really only at 280 *total* in 2430? (FWIW, I don't have the latest DLC, have no idea what effect Criminal Syndicate is going to have on all this!)
grand admiral difficulty. Also more tallish gameplay with 5-7 planets.
GCs can be easily produced by trade. Which can also be used for unity. I don't actually know what is more cost-efficient in terms of unity production. The absolute maximum quantity is definitely made by trade laws to unity.
240 total alloys in 2400ish is really, really low. You can easily get to 2.000+, not maxing alloys. So I think 4.000 should be possible. More planets than 5-7 until 2400 of course.
GCs can be easily produced by trade. Which can also be used for unity. I don't actually know what is more cost-efficient in terms of unity production. The absolute maximum quantity is definitely made by trade laws to unity.
240 total alloys in 2400ish is really, really low. You can easily get to 2.000+, not maxing alloys. So I think 4.000 should be possible. More planets than 5-7 until 2400 of course.
That's what I did with my Space Egyptians. Nobles, spiritualist ethos, slaving guilds, several rural planets with lots of POPs working farms and mines, and then multiple forge worlds where specialists work for the glory of the Pharoh... since the Pharoh wants alloys and not gold.
One of the ways to extend your alloys is to realize that, most of the time, upgrading fleets is not cost effective. You are better off just building your newest models and letting attrition eventually get rid of the older ones. In previous versions of the game, upgrading was so ridiculously cheap and quick that constantly upgrading was a no-brainer. This is no longer the case.
This is a save after I conquered hive mind player. My proper planets are 14 and pops arround 800, the conquered planets have everything disabled/pops purged, because i was about to leave all that territory empty anyway. (admin cap matters)
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The biggest problem with alloy prodution, is that it's gated behind:
1) population (in the early game)
2) mineral production (in the late game)
Grow fast & maximise mining; that's the crux of Stellaris' strategy now.
Doesn't matter your ethics, traits, ideology, or ascension route; the largest population, with the highest mineral income, will be able to field the largest fleets.
1) population (in the early game)
2) mineral production (in the late game)
Grow fast & maximise mining; that's the crux of Stellaris' strategy now.
Doesn't matter your ethics, traits, ideology, or ascension route; the largest population, with the highest mineral income, will be able to field the largest fleets.