Still not producing nowhere near enough alloys

[Vineheart01]

So the slight buff in 2.2.2 for more alloys from metallurgists helped, but i still find myself about half as strong as even the MIDGAME crisis despite going full on alloy production (moment i see 40+ mineral production, more alloy foundries pop up, im trading a LOT for alloys, and i have multiple tributaries).

Three games. All 3 games by the time the midgame crisis happens around 2300 i have ~150 fleet capacity filled, or ~20k-25k fleet power.

Its pretty obvious that the devs just swapped the required resource from Minerals to Alloys, and didnt pay attention that you are going to be producing significantly less alloys. Even with this full force alloy production mentality i never once broke +100 alloys a month. I remember having +300-500 minerals in the older patches by this time in the game when i played this way.

Alloys need to either be buffed again and by quite a bit, or the costs of things needs to go down. I dont even know how you are supposed to get 20k alloys for megastructures...

 

[Linusz]

You must be doing something wrong. I easily meet 200+ alloy production around 2300.

 

[Justafan]

What I have found at least is that while alloy production is significantly lower, energy production is ridiculously easy. Consequently, I've been using the galactic market to make up for lost production. With the galactic market in your borders and insider trading, making up the difference isn't too hard.

Also, you still might not be making as much as in previous versions, but 2.2 is still new, and eventually better strategies will emerge.

 

[Crunbum]

I don't think there's anything wrong with alloys atm, they're too abundant and cheap to produce if anything. The only thing that really irks me is defensive platform costs but the whole concept is flawed anyways and not many people built them even when they used to cost a lot less to build/maintain that they do now.

Like.. you're not supposed to be a getting a lot of alloys. Fleets are supposed to be costly to build and costly to upgrade, otherwise what's the point of even having a standing fleet to begin with when your shipyards can get you to fleet cap in less than a year? Similarly, megastructures are megastructures, they should, by definition, require significant expenses to construct. Pre 2.2, the only thing really limiting you from building them when you finally unlocked the AP was time (one-at-a-time build limit), resources were too abundant to begin with.

Imho, the balance between production, maintenance and construction costs is currently the best it's ever been. It's just the side-effects have been quite severe - it's now really easy to cripple your own economy during the early/midgame, and AI has become more pathetic than ever as a result.

Sidenote : You are not supposed to much a crisis in FP wtf, you're supposed to slowly grind it down, contain, and finally squash after decades of outproducing it in fleets. Otherwise it wouldn't really be much of a crisis would it?

 

[evilcat]

The economy is better now. that 150% alloys allows to build more science for starter. So it is much less balancing on the edge.
Galactic Market definetly helps.
Prosperity line is another great tool which helps with everything.

 

[LordNarvi]

Are you using Forge Worlds or sticking the forges on several planets? The +5 from specialized worlds add up quite a bit over time. My 2 ecumenopoli are getting me 1k+ alloys per month right now, and one isn't at full capacity yet.

In 2308 I was at about 100 alloys per month, though with a very piddly fleet.

 

[The Grumpy Buddha]

So the slight buff in 2.2.2 for more alloys from metallurgists helped, but i still find myself about half as strong as even the MIDGAME crisis despite going full on alloy production (moment i see 40+ mineral production, more alloy foundries pop up, im trading a LOT for alloys, and i have multiple tributaries).

Three games. All 3 games by the time the midgame crisis happens around 2300 i have ~150 fleet capacity filled, or ~20k-25k fleet power.

Its pretty obvious that the devs just swapped the required resource from Minerals to Alloys, and didnt pay attention that you are going to be producing significantly less alloys. Even with this full force alloy production mentality i never once broke +100 alloys a month. I remember having +300-500 minerals in the older patches by this time in the game when i played this way.

Alloys need to either be buffed again and by quite a bit, or the costs of things needs to go down. I dont even know how you are supposed to get 20k alloys for megastructures...

A 25k fleet by 2300 is huge. You're going to curb-stomp pretty much everyone.

This was not something unforeseen -- the devs did this specifically to tone down the doom stacks, and at least make it take longer to generate them. Alloys are *supposed* to be rarer. I like it, actually.

 

[SectorsAreOkay]

A 25k fleet by 2300 is huge. You're going to curb-stomp pretty much everyone.

This was not something unforeseen -- the devs did this specifically to tone down the doom stacks, and at least make it take longer to generate them. Alloys are *supposed* to be rarer. I like it, actually.

Agreed. I want fleets to feel like an accomplishment. They shouldn't feel like a horde of mass-produced orks that can be replaced in a few months.

 

[SectorsAreOkay]

Defense platforms still suck no matter the cost. They need to be beefed up or just gotten rid of. It'd be nice to have platforms that can be built at arbitrary locations in a system again. That way they are actually strategic (I thought that was the point of the whole hyperlanes only, sublight speed in systems model that we now have).

 

[Atreides]

A few suggestions for the OP:>

Start with a heavy production build first, and then branch out to other ones as you get a feel for how building up economies work.

Start with Agrarian Idyll and Mining Guilds, take Aristocratic Elite as your 3rd civic. Alternatively, trade the mining guilds for Inward Perfection if you prefer pacifist game play.

Have you race be very strong, intelligent, non adaptive, deviant.

Colonize every planet in your border, use robots as your primary miners. Set your trade policy to create consumer goods. Whichever of your starting colonies has the least of the base production districts becomes your Industrial World - whenever you need more consumer goods, build another factory there. You will likely end up with 7 or 8 of them.

You forge world is ideally a large planet (17-20) that has 6+ farms on it. Build all of the farms for housing and amenities, and as your economy expands add more forges. Once you have 6+ max forges on this world, you will have your 200+ alloy.

Don't be afraid to sell alloys to buy other goods if needed.

 

[Chthon]

Defense platforms still suck no matter the cost. They need to be beefed up or just gotten rid of. It'd be nice to have platforms that can be built at arbitrary locations in a system again. That way they are actually strategic (I thought that was the point of the whole hyperlanes only, sublight speed in systems model that we now have).

I think the biggest problem with defensive platforms is that they die so easily. I think the reason why this happens is that they lack any defense against missiles, nor do they move, so they have no evasion.

Watching a 4k fleet meet a 5k station with 10 defensive platforms, only to have the defensive platforms evaporate in the first few seconds is rather disheartening. So long as they die as fast as they do, it doesn't matter how much damage they do, they won't be around to do it!

Defensive platforms I feel need to be given built in point defense systems to deal with missiles at the bare minimum. I'm not sure how to fix their problem with not moving though without just giving them some inherent evade bonus that wouldn't make much sense.

 

[AndragonLea]

Is it me or is trading for alloys just a bad idea all around? You're better off trading for minerals and producing them yourself.

At least in my game the AI almost constantly buys alloys up, ratcheting up high prices, while minerals are normally bottom bin clearance price way into late-game. Add an ecumenopolis to cheaply produce alloys/consumer goods out of any minerals and stack some nice production bonus with the Ministry of Production and you should be fine, really.

 

[SectorsAreOkay]

I think the biggest problem with defensive platforms is that they die so easily. I think the reason why this happens is that they lack any defense against missiles, nor do they move, so they have no evasion.

Watching a 4k fleet meet a 5k station with 10 defensive platforms, only to have the defensive platforms evaporate in the first few seconds is rather disheartening. So long as they die as fast as they do, it doesn't matter how much damage they do, they won't be around to do it!

Defensive platforms I feel need to be given built in point defense systems to deal with missiles at the bare minimum. I'm not sure how to fix their problem with not moving though without just giving them some inherent evade bonus that wouldn't make much sense.

You can put PD on the platforms, but it doesn't seem like it matters enough. It's probably, like you say, a problem with evasion.

My suggestions would be:
- Allow them to built in arbitrary locations (still limited by what starbase can support).
- Increase the number of weapon slots on them.
- Increase hull points significantly.
- Increase cost somewhat so that once they are useful, they don't get spammed.

 

[Vineheart01]

Agreed. I want fleets to feel like an accomplishment. They shouldn't feel like a horde of mass-produced orks that can be replaced in a few months.

heh funny you mention that i actually was playing Orks...with the advisory mod too

 

[Chthon]

Is it me or is trading for alloys just a bad idea all around? You're better off trading for minerals and producing them yourself.

The cost for alloys is 4, the cost for consumer goods is 2, the cost for minerals is 1. These are default costs on the market.

Producing alloys or consumer goods requires buildings. 2 minerals => 1 alloy. 1 mineral => 1 consumer good.

Therefore, if the price of minerals is around half of what it costs to purchase alloys, or equal to consumer goods, it makes sense to buy minerals to produce them if you have the building space. Otherwise, buy the consumer goods or alloys directly.

I've had games go either way with the galactic market. In one multiplayer game I've seen alloys jump to 20 credits each!

 

[Archael90]

Ecumenopolis produce lot of alloys

 

[Talanic]

Defensive platforms...can situationally save you early game. Tons of firepower, no survivability: they're a huge choke point force multiplier when you managed to take a hostile starbase and need to try to hold it against an incoming fleet that's similar in power to yours. Screen it with your fleet and it will do you proud. Other than that, though...not so good.

 

[Chthon]

Defensive platforms...can situationally save you early game. Tons of firepower, no survivability: they're a huge choke point force multiplier when you managed to take a hostile starbase and need to try to hold it against an incoming fleet that's similar in power to yours. Screen it with your fleet and it will do you proud. Other than that, though...not so good.

That generally doesn't work for me. I've had my fleet engage first, and the battle occur around the platforms, and the platforms still die. It all depends on what the AI decides to shoot first.

 

[Awakezzz]

If you rush Ecumenoplis, which you probably always should let's face it considering how strong they are, you will never have to worry about alloys again.

In my last campaign I had just finished creating my second Ecumenopolis somewhere around 2305 or so and had to start offloading alloys and consumer goods to the market every 10 minutes because I was capping so fast.

 

[Erenior]

You must be doing something wrong. I easily meet 200+ alloy production around 2300.

may you enlight us by telling how you get 200+ alloys by 2300? i am also going to either buy them from the galactic market OR dedicating a complete planet for alloy production...