Sticking with EU2

[Lord Duppy]

After playing the demo, I'm really displeased with the new graphical interface and I thought Paradox should know. If anyone feels the same, please speak up.

I play HOI2, Victoria, and EU2, and I like the nice, simple, flat maps that those games have. Victoria's map is best, I think. It's smooth, easy to see, and it doesn't require a good graphics card. EU3, however, has choppy scrolling, an obnoxious camera tilt when I try to zoom in, slower gameplay due to rendering, and it's just ugly. When I click on a province the bottom half of my screen disappears into a huge and unnecessary panel with a bad 3D rendering of a town. A bunch of different things pop up in different places rather than staying in one nice predictable sidebar.

I'm not just trying to insult you. You guys put your effort into gameplay, depth, and historical research. That's exactly where all the effort should go. There is absolutely no reason to put it in 3D when a nice flat map works just fine. People who play Paradox games are not the kind of gamers who demand fancy graphics.

I won't be buying EU3 for this reason. I find the new interface intolerable. I hope enough people agree that you'll consider returning to simple graphics in your next game.

 

[unmerged(14689)]

They won't. They would just be better at it next time.

 

[unmerged(64640)]

I have to agree. The map is just not for me. I know I am not an authority on this site, but maybe that will make Paradox consider my opinion a little more. I was heartset on this game until I played the demo. Its just not the same or as good as the games you listed. Maybe someone can mod the map to be 2d, or more preferably just have the zoom go straight down or something? I don't know. Oh well.

 

[binTravkin]

Map is not so player-friendly, that's for sure, especially the unit sprites, which somehow are not so distinguished from the background anymore, thus making it harder to spot them even in your own territory.

I guess the guys at Paradox wanted to make the game pleasant for a bigger auditory (you know, all those guys for whom game is about the graphics, if they cannot use teir new gigabyte graphics card on it at full, it's not a game), but the result is less usability.

Other miserable things are somewhat overloaded panels and very small font for most of the important things (like in the diplomatical panel, where alliances and other agreements are listed).

However, although I dislike the design, I want the game, mostly because of increased domestic policy and foreign relations depth.

 

[unmerged(64033)]

It isn't easy for Paradox...
On one hand the want a 3D map what needs
a strong hardware.
On the other hand stategy-players don't allways
have the latest hardware like ego-players do ...
So they cut the 3D down to be more simple
They aren't such a big company, too,
so EU3 was developed with less money
than other games.

I think we can live with that map, people who
play stategy games for a "good looking" map
shouldn't play paradox games IMHO :rofl:

 

[unmerged(44893)]

After playing the demo, I'm really displeased with the new graphical interface and I thought Paradox should know. If anyone feels the same, please speak up.

I play HOI2, Victoria, and EU2, and I like the nice, simple, flat maps that those games have. Victoria's map is best, I think. It's smooth, easy to see, and it doesn't require a good graphics card. EU3, however, has choppy scrolling, an obnoxious camera tilt when I try to zoom in, slower gameplay due to rendering, and it's just ugly. When I click on a province the bottom half of my screen disappears into a huge and unnecessary panel with a bad 3D rendering of a town. A bunch of different things pop up in different places rather than staying in one nice predictable sidebar.

I'm not just trying to insult you. You guys put your effort into gameplay, depth, and historical research. That's exactly where all the effort should go. There is absolutely no reason to put it in 3D when a nice flat map works just fine. People who play Paradox games are not the kind of gamers who demand fancy graphics.

I won't be buying EU3 for this reason. I find the new interface intolerable. I hope enough people agree that you'll consider returning to simple graphics in your next game.

I wholeheartedly agree 100%. So true the words you speak.

However, for their next game I believe a pseudo-3D engine is in order, have the map in 2d but everything else in 3d, with some pixel shaded special effects for eye candy.

 

[unmerged(64640)]

It isn't easy for Paradox...
On one hand the want a 3D map what needs
a strong hardware.
On the other hand stategy-players don't allways
have the latest hardware like ego-players do ...
So they cut the 3D down to be more simple
They aren't such a big company, too,
so EU3 was developed with less money
than other games.

I think we can live with that map, people who
play stategy games for a "good looking" map
shouldn't play paradox games IMHO :rofl:

By good looking I mean able to see everything clearly and that the interface doesn't take up a third of the freaking screen. This map looks...pail. No vibrant colors to tell things apart and like stated earlier, units are harder to find on the map at first glance. Also, the font seems...thin or something, very hard to read.

 

[JohnMK]

I think we can live with that map

Have you taken a poll or do you issue fiat from your verbal orifice?

, people who
play stategy games for a "good looking" map
shouldn't play paradox games IMHO :rofl:

Let me present the non-binary reality we live in: people buy games for a multitude of reasons. Bad graphics and interface can ruin an otherwise excellent game, and what constitutes "bad" will differ between people.

"Let them eat cake." Ignorance, arrogance, and irrelevance -- concisely.

 

[binTravkin]

IMO Paradox games are not for those, who buy games for graphics - those people will just fail to enjoy the game, as their minds are usually too shallow to get into all the historical details and amazement related to them.

In other words, I believe the decision to put any effort (yet a bit too little to be good) into 3d graphics was put forth by the marketing staff, who were looking after the sucess of Civ4 (admit it, it looks alike Civ4 and a few other recent games).
Nothing personal, but it's often like that with people who mostly think about money (which is usually what they do at marketing dept ) - they see a success and want to copy it, failing to observe the different circumstances of their own situation - EU is not a game for dummies and the people who play it want gameplay not eyecandies (not saying there's little effort put into gameplay, but leaving the map only slightly changed from eu2 - I was actually expecting MyMap adopted - and instead putting even more into gameplay would satisfy EU fans more).

 

[unmerged(16181)]

Didn't MrT say something about 3D graphics actually being easier in terms of system requirements---the implication being that a 2D EU3 that was similar in all other respects would have either run more slowly or taken more RAM/Processor Speed/etc.?

I don't know; I can't remember his exact words and I can't find the thread, so I might be wrong, but I know he said something about 2D graphics not necessarily being easier on a system than 3D.

 

[unmerged(64640)]

I am pretty sure Vicky is easier on the CPU/GPU than EU3, and it, IMHO, looks cleaner and is easier to see what is going on in game. I just don't get what we are getting, gameplay wise, from the map being 3d. There is no aspect of gameplay that was lacking in EU2 or Vicky or HOI that is remedied w/ 3d.

 

[unmerged(64033)]

Have you taken a poll or do you issue fiat from your verbal orifice?

Plz don't use such complicated words, I got only my
school english to express what I mean
You mean if I let the people in the forum vote ?
No, I dind't.
I meant that one can live with that map, I just
switched the words. It looks so that it don't
makes your eyes bleed and thats ok...
I never said it looks fine.

Let me present the non-binary reality we live in: people buy games for a multitude of reasons. Bad graphics and interface can ruin an otherwise excellent game, and what constitutes "bad" will differ between people.

EU is a specialized game. They concentrated on people that don't buy
games for graphic. Not every game has to be so that everyone likes it...
The more you get closer to the taste of the masses the more you get
away from the original EU-buyers.
Of course, every one likes a nice look, me too, but to me it's just a
realy realy minor issue ...

 

[Sarmatia1871]

I'm a bit unimpressed with the graphics and interface. The former aren't good at all (I seriously think EU2 looks better), although the latter may just need time to get used to.

The graphics can of course be modded, and I'm sure that in six months time we'll have new, better looking textures, sprites, and icons, but that won't be what reviewers or prospective new customers will be looking at or basing their decisions on...

 

[cocoa]

Didn't MrT say something about 3D graphics actually being easier in terms of system requirements---the implication being that a 2D EU3 that was similar in all other respects would have either run more slowly or taken more RAM/Processor Speed/etc.?

I don't know; I can't remember his exact words and I can't find the thread, so I might be wrong, but I know he said something about 2D graphics not necessarily being easier on a system than 3D.

It's somewhat true: you can pass off some of the work with a 3d map to a graphics card. But that means you need a better graphics card than a 2D game.

 

[Damocles]

I'm somewhat surprised that they released a demo at all. Paradox games are not really suited for 'demos'.

Personally, I think their EUII map was the best they've ever done. I never cared for CK, HoIs or Victoria's.

That said. I'm more concerned about gameplay, and patches will tidy things up. I just hope it doesn't lag too badly. Victoria was almost impossible to play MP.

 

[unmerged(64033)]

The best map was the one in vicky !
And there were no monocultural and monoreligious provs ...
But the rest of vicky was crap

Paradox games are not made for demos, thats true.

 

[AdmiralNelson]

To back up Ordo Teutonicus: I don't play EUII because it has state-of-the-art graphics.

Actually, I don't play anything because it has state-of-the-art graphics. Games are played for gameplay.

For Paradox games, if the map, interface and graphics are functional, I'm happy.

If they're not...then we've got a problem.

 

[unmerged(49508)]

There are (at least) two things to consider when talking about graphics. One thing is that if it looks nice or not. The other is functionality. I think paradox made one step forward in the former but three steps backwards with the latter. This is sad and until it is not fixed I will stick to EU2.

 

[phoranix]

After playing the demo, I'm really displeased with the new graphical interface and I thought Paradox should know. If anyone feels the same, please speak up.

I play HOI2, Victoria, and EU2, and I like the nice, simple, flat maps that those games have. Victoria's map is best, I think. It's smooth, easy to see, and it doesn't require a good graphics card. EU3, however, has choppy scrolling, an obnoxious camera tilt when I try to zoom in, slower gameplay due to rendering, and it's just ugly. When I click on a province the bottom half of my screen disappears into a huge and unnecessary panel with a bad 3D rendering of a town. A bunch of different things pop up in different places rather than staying in one nice predictable sidebar.

I'm not just trying to insult you. You guys put your effort into gameplay, depth, and historical research. That's exactly where all the effort should go. There is absolutely no reason to put it in 3D when a nice flat map works just fine. People who play Paradox games are not the kind of gamers who demand fancy graphics.

I won't be buying EU3 for this reason. I find the new interface intolerable. I hope enough people agree that you'll consider returning to simple graphics in your next game.

i am the same opinion. the graphs are just utter crap. i cant understand paradox for agreeing with this map. it will cost them a lot of money for people who dont buy the card: there will be hardly new players, and quite some eu-fans who will not play this.

i have a nvidia geforce 7300/1g mem but the map doesnt scroll or zoom fluently. the quality of the sprites and countries is just ridiculous. all other maps of paradox games are better then this.

 

[KushanHiigara]

I don't mind having a 3D map, but honestly, the provinces don't even look like provinces anymore. The lines seperating them look rather arbitrary. Maybe its just how it looks to me...

I'll probably end up buying it, if only so I can give a more honest opinion of it. But I think EU2 1.09 is pretty much the game we have all wanted in alot of ways, and modding can make that more likely. Or even better, if EU3 is half as mod-able as they say it is we can easily make it better than vanilla