Stellaris: RTS vs. Turn based.

[SolarSatellite]

In a RTS game, like Starcraft 2, made by Blizzard, there is a mini-map so that you can jump to any needed portion of the map, at will, because time is of the essence. You should be able to get to the screen in just a click, and then from the screen do whatever is needed. There is also the added feature of command groups, with numbers.... where you can select these numbered groups anywhere with just one number hit. To form, you have the group selected, right click on the number, that's it. And, furthermore, there's the possibility of giving commands without looking at the screen!

Conversely, In a Turn based strategy game, there's no need for a mini-map, as the game is paused, then resumed, for each turn. When you need to find where something is, you have plenty of time to find it. In the game Civilization, made by Sid Meier, there are tricks, like use of the c button, i think, to immediately take you where the action is, centralized on that screenshot. If you want to explore anything further on your own or change something, that is up to you to find. There's always plenty of time to explore and familiarize. The map is often HUGE, as the planet earth, so exploring the tiles, improvements, cities checking up on them, can be daunting.

In Stellaris, I get the strange feeling, it's a weird hybrid.... where zooming in and out with the camera and switching camera angles is the goal, for the masterpiece art. Yes, art is a good goal. Everyone loves it! - and the game should be a beauty to play! But, is it time efficient like RTS? But, is there a command to jump where the action is, once paused, and then resume, like Civ? Also, in diplomacy, is there music and pause predominantly..... while, in map mode, there's RTS predominantly? That would appear to be the goal. If not diplomacy messages, then pop-up messages with story-lines, tips, advice, etc.... Stellaris is more complex than meets the eye!

I think Stellaris wants the best of all worlds, and art. But, with less focus on each....

IMO: I think learning the game should be more Turn based, pop-ups, etc..... This game does have a steep learning curve and could take months, notably. Also, I, ideally, would like to see a constant free flow game, especially in Multiplayer, not to be messed with, regardless of the agreed upon reconvening times (for it's extended duration).

Thoughts?

 

[Kapitalisti]

Stellaris has no turns so it's clearly a real time strategy. In the truest sense of the term, not like those real time tactics.

 

[Qoff]

Stellaris is a RTS, a turn based game like stellaris would be Endless Space.

 

[Svip]

Technically, Stellaris is turn-based. Each day is a turn. They just occur so rapidly, that it feels like a real time game. But fortunately, the game is pausable, so you can stop at any time to coordinate an attack or take care of a situation.

But this is how Paradox games have always been, so it would have been weird if it was different.

 

[mightygaz]

Technically, Stellaris is turn-based. Each day is a turn. They just occur so rapidly, that it feels like a real time game. But fortunately, the game is pausable, so you can stop at any time to coordinate an attack or take care of a situation.

But this is how Paradox games have always been, so it would have been weird if it was different.

incorrect, as things move at times other than the transition from one day to the next. it's most definitely, incontrovertibly, an RTS game.

edit - whoever disagreed, you are 100% wrong. i cant believe we're having to even have this conversation to be honest...

 

[Qoff]

Technically, Stellaris is turn-based. Each day is a turn. They just occur so rapidly, that it feels like a real time game. But fortunately, the game is pausable, so you can stop at any time to coordinate an attack or take care of a situation.

But this is how Paradox games have always been, so it would have been weird if it was different.

I don't think so, turn based games you need to pass your turn in order to the next player make his moves, here all occours together at the same time.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Technically, Stellaris is turn-based. Each day is a turn. They just occur so rapidly, that it feels like a real time game. But fortunately, the game is pausable, so you can stop at any time to coordinate an attack or take care of a situation.

But this is how Paradox games have always been, so it would have been weird if it was different.

By definition, turn means something that happens to only one participant at a time. In Stellaris, as in all Paradox games, everyone acts at the same time. Thus, no turns.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

By definition, turn means something that happens to only one participant at a time. In Stellaris, as in all Paradox games, everyone acts at the same time. Thus, no turns.

That's not really correct. The Combat Mission series, for example, is turn based, but uses a "we-go" system where both sides plan their orders and then the game calculates a 1 minute turn for the outcome.

And in general - I don't think that Paradox games fall really well into either category. Yeah, the daily ticks behave like turns, but they are really not. Yeah, it's sorta RTS-like, but you pause so often and alter the speed all the time, that it doesn't fit that category perfectly well either. I guess I'd go with something like "Pausable Real Time" or the like as a middle ground.

 

[mightygaz]

That's not really correct. The Combat Mission series, for example, is turn based, but uses a "we-go" system where both sides plan their orders and then the game calculates a 1 minute turn for the outcome.

And in general - I don't think that Paradox games fall really well into either category. Yeah, the daily ticks behave like turns, but they are really not. Yeah, it's sorta RTS-like, but you pause so often and alter the speed all the time, that it doesn't fit that category perfectly well either. I guess I'd go with something like "Pausable Real Time" or the like as a middle ground.

tell me, how many RTS games don't allow you to pause?

it's an RTS. much like the sun is hot and the pope is a catholic.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

It's not so much about being able to pause, but rather how often you do it.
You rarely - if ever - pause in games like CoH, Age of Empire or Starcraft. I frequently pause in Paradox games (at least in SP), due to the completely different pacing. And enough for me to say that "it doesn't really fit my traditional idea of RTS".

But in the end that's just pointless personal opinion anyway,so I don't see any issues with you disagreeing here.

 

[Goldseeker]

Depends on definition really. Is it realtime if mechanics are all based on turns but turns autoend, every x seconds? Compare that to almost every D&D CRPG which are turn-based wrapped into auto turn end wrapper. Personally i do consider them realtime, but distinguish it from true realtime games that deal with non quantifiable time.

 

[Qoff]

It's a RTS grand strategy, isn't a pure RTS, not sure tho if there is any Grand Strategy game that isn't a RTS.

 

[[Q]uik]

If stellaris were to be turn based, I wouldn't have an interest in it.
I came to GSG to AVOID turn based. And i don't miss it at all. I much prefer Real time.
And GSG by paradox is typically running on a "turn based system" where every day is in itself a "turn" and they just go by in real time, offering you the option to pause whenever you want.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

Why is it so hard to understand that RTS just mean Real Time Strategy?!?

If the game pass in real time and it is a strategy game then it is RTS. There are many forms of RTS out there.

By definition Stellaris or any other Paradox game are NOT turn based, if you think that you don't know what the terms mean!

The shortest tick in this game are I believe 1/100 of a day so 1/100 of second since 1 day are equal to one second on normal speed.

 

[Number 7]

Paradox GSGs have always have such great charm because they are real time that can be paused. It gives you this great flow that i never had with Civ IV or others because you spend time waiting for your turn.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I enjoy both turn based and games such as the ones Paradox make. Games where you can't pause are no game for me... I don't like the stress moment of such games, simply does not make it fun for me.

RTS games with a pause function are in my opinion superior to the more original RTS types and to true turn based games, they are a good hybrid between the two. But they are still RTS, just a different type of RTS.

 

[TheAtreides84]

Actually, RTS Starcraft-like games aren't really RTS, as in real time STRATEGY. It's just that strategy is used not in his proper sense, but as a shortcut for everything that is not action.

 

[[Q]uik]

Why is it so hard to understand that RTS just mean Real Time Strategy?!?

If the game pass in real time and it is a strategy game then it is RTS. There are many forms of RTS out there.

By definition Stellaris or any other Paradox game are NOT turn based, if you think that you don't know what the terms mean!

The shortest tick in this game are I believe 1/100 of a day so 1/100 of second since 1 day are equal to one second on normal speed.

I think you may not understand how paradox's games works then - because every day IS a turn.

 

[mightygaz]

I think you may not understand how paradox's games works then - because every day IS a turn.

oh for f...

someone is confused, but it's certainly not Jorgen.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I think you may not understand how paradox's games works then - because every day IS a turn.

No.. there are microturns and about 100 in each day... do you see ships jump all over the place each day... do you see that in combat to?

There are a bunch of things that ticks during these micro turns... resources ticks every month... is a month a turn to?

In most RTS resources will tick in a certain time frame, such as every second or so, the same with this game. But they all work in a micro turns in some way much smaller than a second.

Whenever you pause the game you don't just pause between two days because each day are divided on 100 micro turns, so it might be 1.23 days not day 1 or day 2.

If you mod the game like I do you can see that in the files, in my world there are 3000 turns in a month and 100 turns in a day.

Even if a day was a turn it is still real time since all decisions made by the AI happens at the same time, so in real time.

**EDIT**
I was wrong there are 10 micro updates in each day... that is what weapons and many effect are using for deciding when to fire and stuff like that or other graphical effects.