Stellaris is boring and tedious

[ExNihil]

Actually, my feeling is that the devs are more interested in marketing than players, or monkeys.

 

[Red_warning]

When I get bored of games I just stop playing them, I don't really expect them to last me a lifetime.

 

[AlphaAsh]

...
I went home at some time, probably these little rascals still argue about nothing than themselves.

Once the little hoooman was gone, the monkeys did indeed continue to argue but the subject had changed to whether they actually gave a monkies about what this one hoooman thought of their antics. They swiftly concluded that they didn't and carried on arguing, because they enjoyed it and could. Locked in the cage of life, they exercised their freedom to do whatever the fuck they wanted.

 

[PirateJack]

Actually, my feeling is that the devs are more interested in marketing than plays, or monkeys.

Eh, they need to turn a profit because they're a business so marketing does come into it, but I think the games industry (outside the AAA titles) is one of the few places where the developers genuinely enjoy their craft and want to make things that people enjoy. You don't get into games design for the money; you get into it because you want to make great games. It's in vogue to be cynical about everything these days, but I don't see it. People care. Politicians aren't all scumbags. Businessmen aren't all out for every spare penny. Games developers want people to enjoy their games.

It may be a big difference between us, because from the first thread you've made your sole focus has been on the parts that aren't good enough, and you quite obviously think you can do better. I welcome any attempts you make because even if they're not the gold standard you want them to be, they'll at least make the game more interesting in ways that I'll get to enjoy. Not least because you take the playerbase's opinions into account when designing mods. I'm optimistic that you'll do good things for Stellaris.

So yeah, I'm not entirely sure where I was going with this, but I just wanted to point out that this cynicism isn't universal and I think it unfair that you think the devs' motives are so self-centred when this really isn't an industry that encourages that kind of thinking.

 

[Nippleworthy]

Once the little hoooman was gone, the monkeys did indeed continue to argue but the subject had changed to whether they actually gave a monkies about what this one hoooman thought of their antics. They swiftly concluded that they didn't and carried on arguing, because they enjoyed it and could. Locked in the cage of life, they exercised their freedom to do whatever the fuck they wanted.

Hah wonderful, I like that! Let me be the first to agree.

 

[PK_AZ]

They also, however, have to keep in mind that different people want different things out of the game. It's been mentioned before that some people want Vicky 2 in space, others want MoO: Stellaris, others want Endless Space, still others want more species packs to bling up their empire. The devs' job is to balance these wants so that the game sells well with all the demographics that they're aiming to please.

Disagree with the last sentence. Devs job is to make cool games. Thats it.
It sounds so cool that 'you do exactly what customers want', but that's the myth. First, customers don't know what they want until they saw it. On the other hand, they perfectly know what they don't want... after you implement it. Second, from my perspective it seems players wants another MoO or SoSE, with smal modifications. But how many MoO or SoSE can be produced before players will get bored? And more importantly, what's the future of gamedev, if game get ranting because it is not like every other example of 4X? Third, not all wants are possible to balance. For example I want simple and fast planet invasions, when someone else wants complicated minigame. The 'balanced' approach is to create minigame too tedious for me, and too simple and boring to that someone.
Thats why I think devs should be faithful to THEIR vision, not customers visions. Because at the end of the day it is Paradox game and Paradox responsibility, not some random people from paradox plaza.

 

[PirateJack]

Disagree with the last sentence. Devs job is to make cool games. Thats it.
It sounds so cool that 'you do exactly what customers want', but that's the myth. First, customers don't know what they want until they saw it. On the other hand, they perfectly know what they don't want... after you implement it. Second, from my perspective it seems players wants another MoO or SoSE, with smal modifications. But how many MoO or SoSE can be produced before players will get bored? And more importantly, what's the future of gamedev, if game get ranting because it is not like every other example of 4X? Third, not all wants are possible to balance. For example I want simple and fast planet invasions, when someone else wants complicated minigame. The 'balanced' approach is to create minigame too tedious for me, and too simple and boring to that someone.
Thats why I think devs should be faithful to THEIR vision, not customers visions. Because at the end of the day it is Paradox game and Paradox responsibility, not some random people from paradox plaza.

I think we're arguing for the same thing, but I didn't word mine well enough. I didn't mean to say that Paradox should abandon their own ideas for the game, just that they should keep in mind the playerbase and the feedback they receive when considering where to go next. I think the devs do keep the community's opinions in mind, which is why Paradox is one of the better game companies in the market, but I think we're all well aware at this point that they have a vision for Stellaris and it's not going to be a MoO clone, or what have you.

 

[ExNihil]

It may be a big difference between us, because from the first thread you've made your sole focus has been on the parts that aren't good enough, and you quite obviously think you can do better

? You are aware this is a load of crap, yes?

. I welcome any attempts you make because even if they're not the gold standard you want them to be, they'll at least make the game more interesting in ways that I'll get to enjoy. Not least because you take the playerbase's opinions into account when designing mods. I'm optimistic that you'll do good things for Stellaris.

Whats your point?

Eh, they need to turn a profit because they're a business so marketing does come into it, but I think the games industry (outside the AAA titles) is one of the few places where the developers genuinely enjoy their craft and want to make things that people enjoy. You don't get into games design for the money; you get into it because you want to make great games. It's in vogue to be cynical about everything these days, but I don't see it. People care. Politicians aren't all scumbags. Businessmen aren't all out for every spare penny. Games developers want people to enjoy their games

Hmm. Sentimental. Romantic. Probably wrong. Anyhow, like everyone, game designers have bosses.

 

[PirateJack]

? You are aware this is a load of crap, yes?

Mate, take a look at your post history.

Whats your point?

Exactly what I said. No ulterior motive. I'm looking forward to when you've fully developed your mod.

Hmm. Sentimental. Romantic. Probably wrong. Anyhow, like everyone, game designers have bosses.

Cynical. Nihilistic. Probably wrong. Everyone has their own wants and desires. The world you live in must be a very drab place if you think that even people who are interested in the creative process are out for themselves. Aside from that, yes, game designers have bosses, but they're also the ones that come up with the stuff we play. What kind of game designer makes a game they wouldn't want to play themselves?

 

[zizard]

Cynical. Nihilistic. Probably wrong. Everyone has their own wants and desires. The world you live in must be a very drab place if you think that even people who are interested in the creative process are out for themselves. Aside from that, yes, game designers have bosses, but they're also the ones that come up with the stuff we play. What kind of game designer makes a game they wouldn't want to play themselves?

I suspect most devs don't play this game very much. Would be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[AlphaAsh]

What kind of game designer makes a game they wouldn't want to play themselves?

One who wants to keep his job and get paid? (The inter-relations of these posts, sir, they are making me dizzy).

Seriously though, larger a studio gets, the more likely you'll have staff working on a game they don't actually play.

 

[ExNihil]

I suspect most devs don't play this game very much.

Or well.

 

[Devin90]

I don't necessarily want this game to be Master of Orion or Sins of a Solar Empire, although I do feel that a lot could be learned from those games.
There's no reason Sins, a full wargame, should have a deeper diplomacy system than Stellaris, but it does.

Personally I don't think that Stellaris is currently living up to what Paradox's stated vision of Stellaris is.
If it was the game they said it would be, I'd be very happy with it.

As it stands, I still like quite a bit about this game. And I really want to see it flourish. It has potential. But it's not there yet.
The game that was sold to me is not currently what it claimed to be, it wasn't then and it still isn't, and I do feel a bit cheated and frustrated as a result.

 

[WebShaman]

I don't necessarily want this game to be Master of Orion or Sins of a Solar Empire, although I do feel that a lot could be learned from those games.
There's no reason Sins, a full wargame, should have a deeper diplomacy system than Stellaris, but it does.

Personally I don't think that Stellaris is currently living up to what Paradox's stated vision of Stellaris is.
If it was the game they said it would be, I'd be very happy with it.

As it stands, I still like quite a bit about this game. And I really want to see it flourish. It has potential. But it's not there yet.
The game that was sold to me is not currently what it claimed to be, it wasn't then and it still isn't, and I do feel a bit cheated and frustrated as a result.

This!

Gods yes, this!

You see, I actually do like the DLCs put out so far.

I do. Just like I like the game in and of itself.

I would just like some things FIXED!

I don't want the game to be some other game here!

There are some real problems with the UI that could be streamlined imo, to reduce clickfesting. And tile-tetris. I also haven't seen anyone screaming against fixing combat, and we have had a zillion (and one!) threads on doomstacks.

And something should be done about planetary assaults as the current system is tacked on, shoddy, and seems to have errors in it.

And other things that I am probably not even aware of.

I will be getting the next DLC, because I find that it does enrich the game (my opinion), but I would also like some fixes.

 

[Devin90]

You see, I actually do like the DLCs put out so far.

So do I!
Fantasy wise, Stellaris is head and shoulders above most games.

Creating a nation and working to have them ascend into psionics or synthetics, for example, is exactly the sort of thing I want to do in games, and how many games let me do that?
No others that I know of.

And basically all the changes I see coming in 1.8 and Synthetic Dawn are positive changes. They look very nice and have great flavor.

But all this would mean so much more with a stronger core to the gameplay.

 

[Person012345]

3. Indeed it is my opinion. As for what's more stimulating? Almost any other one of Pdox's grand strategies. As it stands, Stellaris is not the worst 4x game I've ever played but its pretty far from the best, and I think that's unfortunate.

Despite it's faults, Aurora is probably the best space 4x game around by a mile imo, or game in the style of Stellaris, and when the port to C# is finished it'll be even better. I doubt Stellaris can ever come close to it because it's a commercial game designed for mass market appeal, not a spare time niche project that has been developing for years. On the other hand, it does have it's upsides over Aurora and it's a different game. Just, in totality.

 

[ExNihil]

I like the dlcs, they add flavor. Saying that, I think ascensions are done very poorly.

Anyhow, I think it says alot that IMO by far the best DLC any player could get for this game is the More Events Mod. In fact, there are a bunch of mods out there that will do more for a player's experience for free than any $ expansion from PDX. Alphamod being the most famous of these.

 

[Person012345]

Don't you guys have no idea about statistics and probabilities? Never heard of sample size formula?
Do you really believe you need at least 50% of players answers to estimate reliably the viability of a vote? Really?
Are you telling me that, for example, the current vote on the Synthetic Dawn music DD (Agree x 175, Helpful x 33, Respectfully Disagree x 2) is not representative of Andreas Waldetoft music quality, because the 1.2+ million of players that didn't vote might actually dislike it?

To estimate a representative sample size (quick and dirty):

Necessary sample size = (Z-score)^2 * stddev*(1-stddev) / (err margin)^2

So here you go: for a big population size (more than 1 million customers), what size does the sample need to be in order to have a representative answer, with a confidence level of 95% (Z-score = 1.96), a margin error of +/-5% and a safe value for the standard deviation (0.5)? That's right, 384. How many answer do we have here? 312. What's our sample margin of error then?

With p = (234 + 9)/312, 1-p = 69/312, and n=312:
Z*(p(1-p)/n)^1/2 = 5.004%


So sure, the opinions expressed in this thread are by no means automatically universal across the Stellaris community, but even a quick calculation shows it's a damn good estimate of the overall feeling of the community.

Have you never heard of a biased sample?

 

[Person012345]

Look at the headline of this thread. An outrageous insinuation. A subjective opinion is thus declared as a fact:

"Stellaris is boring and tedious!"

Is this fair? Who is so arrogant and shabby to act like that and then awaits a serious discussion? I think that was never desired.

There is not a single suggestion in the entire OP. Whilst there have been helpful suggestions through the thread, it's tainted by the very purpose of the thread just being stupid whiny bitching. That is the problem with this thread. People address the OP and then people try to defend the OP, thoguh there is no defense of the OP. So then we have one side who views itself as righteously trying to improve the game with constructive criticism while they see the other side as fanboys attacking them and pretending the game is perfect and we have the other side that just sees a whiny ass OP who said nothing constructive and was just telling everyone how shit the game is so they view themselves as coming to the game's defense while the other side just shouldn't be playing the game if they fundamentally hate everything about the design.

This thread should not exist, it is a bad thread. There are plenty of good threads that start out on a good note with an actual suggestion or analysis of a problem. Those often end up being productive, even if they don't end up affecting the game. This is a thread where the same pattern will happen every time a new person comes to the thread and didn't want to read 25 pages of it.

 

[ExNihil]

Have you noted the fact that A LOT of people agreed with the OP?