Stellaris is boring and tedious
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I mean, I do understand people's frustration from having spent money and not feeling like they are satisfied with their purchase. It's a valid feeling, and a good point can be made for it.I am not among them
Guess I'm just kinda chill about these things in my old age.
Paradox is known for making games that change and expand over their lifetime, to me it's hard to understand how anyone doesn't expect this.
I'm not sure that's a problem so much as the cost and time involved are. It's one thing to release a good game that, with time and money, will become great. But Stellaris is a flat game filled with exciting ideas and poor execution; I can see people being legitimately upset when they hear "but after two years and another $140 in DLC you'll love it."
I agree with the OP, this is a boring game.
There are no interesting decisions to make, because there are no tradeoffs or consequences. Every action is clear. When you find a system, you build a station on each resource. To manage factions, you spend influence suppressing them or tick the box they want. More likely you just ignore them. To fight a war, you build ships with the biggest number and clump them all together.
As someone else said on this forum, a 4x game is about making a serious of interesting decisions to solve challenging problems, which together lead to a big, strategic goal. To do that, though you need trade-offs and competing priorities. Stellaris doesn't have that. There's no sense of making difficulty or systems that interact in meaningful ways beyond the obvious. There's no sense of a zero-sum environment, where I have to commit resources and time into one thing at the expense of something else.
Someone earlier mentioned Starcraft. While it's not a great comparison because Stellaris is absolutely not an RTS, one point is very apt: every decision you make in Starcraft opens up some possibilities and closes off others. Your choices matter a lot because resources are scarce and an army of hydralisks plays a different game than an army of zealots.
In Stellaris, do I ever even really make choices? I spam stations, spam ships, spam planets (which the AI ends up running). I fight a war by spamming my doomstack against theirs (and the AI ends up fighting). Everything has the obvious thing you do with it. Each play through is exactly alike, except this time maybe I build ships 4% faster than the last.
At least, that's my two cents about what people mean when they say the game lacks depth or is boring.
I agree with OP about the a lot of points.
Boring: Mostly Tedious is how I would describe it. Why the hell must I build mining thingy lvl 1, then upgrade to lvl 2, then upgrade to lvl 3, then upgrade to lvl 4 instead of just building the lvl 4 ffs? Seems like busy work to cover for lack of depth. Same thing with armies/fleet. Click to queue ship, click to queue ship, click to queue ship... Maybe let me ctrl+click to queue 5 frikin ships plz?!!! Army recruitment, the same.... Moving pops around the empire... OMG what a mess.
Exhausting: The feeling you feel when you know you are goign to war with your neighbor and by proxy 5 other neighbors because they all have defensive pacts. You know you will win but it's going to take ages of jumping around fighting 5 fleets, triking them into traps etc, all so you can take 3-5 planets from one guy, which will immediately throw you into micro nightmare because you have to re-queue up all buildings, swap sectors around, recruit defensive armies against the unrest etc etc. Doesn't feel like I am enjoying the conquest here.
No Strategy: This one isn't too easy to tackle. There is maybe what you might call tactics, but no real strategy. And the tactics are all cheese pretty much, which works against AI and clueless newbies.
Still I am hoping major improvements can be made, more stuff added in, and I will happily continue buying and playing
Boring: Mostly Tedious is how I would describe it. Why the hell must I build mining thingy lvl 1, then upgrade to lvl 2, then upgrade to lvl 3, then upgrade to lvl 4 instead of just building the lvl 4 ffs? Seems like busy work to cover for lack of depth. Same thing with armies/fleet. Click to queue ship, click to queue ship, click to queue ship... Maybe let me ctrl+click to queue 5 frikin ships plz?!!! Army recruitment, the same.... Moving pops around the empire... OMG what a mess.
Exhausting: The feeling you feel when you know you are goign to war with your neighbor and by proxy 5 other neighbors because they all have defensive pacts. You know you will win but it's going to take ages of jumping around fighting 5 fleets, triking them into traps etc, all so you can take 3-5 planets from one guy, which will immediately throw you into micro nightmare because you have to re-queue up all buildings, swap sectors around, recruit defensive armies against the unrest etc etc. Doesn't feel like I am enjoying the conquest here.
No Strategy: This one isn't too easy to tackle. There is maybe what you might call tactics, but no real strategy. And the tactics are all cheese pretty much, which works against AI and clueless newbies.
Still I am hoping major improvements can be made, more stuff added in, and I will happily continue buying and playing
I've put 460 hours into the game and have enjoyed that time. For the money I have invested, I would say that it was a worthwhile purchase. Most games I play for less than 100 hours. If you pay 40€ to get 100 hours of play time, about the average for my non Paradox games, then Stellaris could cost 160€ and still be a worthwhile investment.
And as I said before, if you treat Stellaris more like a sandbox game rather than some kind of competitive game, than it changes your expectations, which makes it a lot more fun to play.
Expecting to be in it for the long haul isn't unreasonable given the nature of PDX games.
But I also don't think it's entirely unreasonable for there to be some disillusionment when we've hit the one year mark and there's still a large list of things that are lacking or problematic... especially when some of those problems have been here for that whole year.
I'm certainly not saying that's wrong. Games are definitely a "to each his own thing," and I'm not one to tell you you're not really having fun. I certainly don't enjoy it that much, but I'm glad you do. Most of my playtime has been either on New Horizons (which is good) or letting the game just run while I did other things and hoped it would get good.
Still, the "you're not playing it right" idea feels very reminiscent of MOOIII. During that famous train wreck the devs kept insisting that their players didn't understand the game, but really... you're either having fun or you're not. There's not really a lot more to get, I don't think.
The requirement for "Constructive" criticism makes no sense to me.
If I buy an oven and it doesn't cook food, I'll complain to the manufacturer and no one would expect me to also come up with a design for a better oven - that's the manufacturer's job.
Likewise, if a game isn't entertaining (which is its primary function), it should be enough that the complaints are specific and objective ones, and there certainly shouldn't be a need that the consumer should tell the game developer how to make a better game.
Except Stellaris was marketed, advertised, and SOLD (with Paradox receiving money) as a completed game, not as a "framework for future development".
Imagine you bought a car, it didn't drive, and the car maker blamed you for not understanding that you actually only bought a frame with wheels and other essential components yet-to-come.
your decisions do matter, but stellaris definitely has zen vibe ala SimEarth, or perhaps SimAnt.
you are more developing your empire-terrarium than leading it per se.
A good example is diplomacy. Your available diplomatic actions are a summation of the kind of empire you've chosen to build, weighted against the kind of empire the AI is developing and various contextual factors. This is vastly different than many 4x games, where the differences between empires can sometimes be summed up as modifiers on the gold cost it takes to brainwash an AI into liking you or giving you what you want.
So, IMO: Saying there's no game there is not wrong precisely, but it is missing the boat a bit. Stellaris delivers on the experience. But it does have problems in several of its key mechanics. And a lot of the improvements since release have been two steps forward, one step back. The initial design of several mechanics was just straightforwardly flawed.
you are more developing your empire-terrarium than leading it per se.
A good example is diplomacy. Your available diplomatic actions are a summation of the kind of empire you've chosen to build, weighted against the kind of empire the AI is developing and various contextual factors. This is vastly different than many 4x games, where the differences between empires can sometimes be summed up as modifiers on the gold cost it takes to brainwash an AI into liking you or giving you what you want.
So, IMO: Saying there's no game there is not wrong precisely, but it is missing the boat a bit. Stellaris delivers on the experience. But it does have problems in several of its key mechanics. And a lot of the improvements since release have been two steps forward, one step back. The initial design of several mechanics was just straightforwardly flawed.
The thing with Stellaris is that it´s the FIRST Paradox game with a random map.
And bad random maps... can be very boring.
The truth is that Huge (and probably large) galaxies really aren´t the ideal way of playing, specially if even more tension is removed by decreasing AI starts too much. The exploration events become repetitive and individual planets and systems become MUCH less relevant.
On the other hand, in Medium and smaller, every advantage counts. Every planet colonized or taken is valuable.
No other Pdox game has this issue. Playing as Albania in EU4? The french king in 1066? Germany in 1936? You know what to expect next.
And bad random maps... can be very boring.
The truth is that Huge (and probably large) galaxies really aren´t the ideal way of playing, specially if even more tension is removed by decreasing AI starts too much. The exploration events become repetitive and individual planets and systems become MUCH less relevant.
On the other hand, in Medium and smaller, every advantage counts. Every planet colonized or taken is valuable.
No other Pdox game has this issue. Playing as Albania in EU4? The french king in 1066? Germany in 1936? You know what to expect next.
I have still not played enough Stellaris to have an optimal early game routine but I agree that as the game progresses it becomes a chore.
In the medium/late game wars your main enemy is bad game design as you fight to keep multiple transports fleets escorted by your battle fleets as they move from planet to planet, waiting until planet is bombed enough to assault, assulting the planet, reembarking your armies and repeating the process.
In the medium/late game wars your main enemy is bad game design as you fight to keep multiple transports fleets escorted by your battle fleets as they move from planet to planet, waiting until planet is bombed enough to assault, assulting the planet, reembarking your armies and repeating the process.
Exploration: Boring as hell. I don't even bother to read the events anymore. I just see the bonuses to some asteroids on the other side of the galaxy and think "Hm..." I even get automatic exploration as soon as I can.
Expansion: I need Influence to claim amount of empty space that no one is contesting. I even need to do that if I'm the only Empire in the entire galaxy. Also, I can't build a single mine or explore an asteroid or study some interesting fauna or primitive people without claim THE WHOLE AREA AROUND IT! Borders magically change, some of my mines ends up on the other side of the border and nothing happens. I mean, my Devouring Swarm drones are still working in the mines and giving to the other empire for free or they were ATTACKED and I, the Overmind, can't even retaliate without call their whole damn federation? No border tension, nothing.
Exploit: Orbital mines and research centers can't be upgraded. There is no choice, just upgrade everything you can on your planets/habitats. There is plenty of energy to pay for it anyway. Except for AI that lets everything in the "natural state"
Exterminate: War is BORING! There is no strategy, no economic damage to be dealt, no espionage, no scout, just blob and play cat and mouse like it is fun.
In Starcraft at least Scouting(spying), Economic Warfare, Static Defense, Defense in Depth and counter-strategies are a thing SINCE EVER! Since DAY 1!(Balance issues aside) This game doesn't deserve to be compared to a crappy early access game like Stellaris that was sold at full price. Also, micro there gives us the reward feeling, not like "upgrade this mine each level at once" or "go to find your sectors spaceports".
Expansion: I need Influence to claim amount of empty space that no one is contesting. I even need to do that if I'm the only Empire in the entire galaxy. Also, I can't build a single mine or explore an asteroid or study some interesting fauna or primitive people without claim THE WHOLE AREA AROUND IT! Borders magically change, some of my mines ends up on the other side of the border and nothing happens. I mean, my Devouring Swarm drones are still working in the mines and giving to the other empire for free or they were ATTACKED and I, the Overmind, can't even retaliate without call their whole damn federation? No border tension, nothing.
Exploit: Orbital mines and research centers can't be upgraded. There is no choice, just upgrade everything you can on your planets/habitats. There is plenty of energy to pay for it anyway. Except for AI that lets everything in the "natural state"
Exterminate: War is BORING! There is no strategy, no economic damage to be dealt, no espionage, no scout, just blob and play cat and mouse like it is fun.
In Starcraft at least Scouting(spying), Economic Warfare, Static Defense, Defense in Depth and counter-strategies are a thing SINCE EVER! Since DAY 1!(Balance issues aside) This game doesn't deserve to be compared to a crappy early access game like Stellaris that was sold at full price. Also, micro there gives us the reward feeling, not like "upgrade this mine each level at once" or "go to find your sectors spaceports".
No kidding.
I had no idea how much of a difference galaxy size, number of AI empires, and AI starts made in terms of gameplay.
I never understood some players play styles, because for a long time I just ran medium galaxies with lots of AI empires. Literally losing the chance to colonize the right world at the right time could change the face of the next 75 years.
When I branched out and ran bigger galaxies, or galaxies with fewer AI empires, it was a totally different experience. I still prefer medium galaxies, sometimes with 1x habitable worlds and sometimes with 2.5x.
You can definitely "Play a game wrong" in the sense that what you're looking for out of a game just isn't what that game is set out to deliver. The trouble with Stellaris right now is that even if you are playing it 'right' and setting up your empire from an RP perspective and want to enjoy the idea of running an empire which adheres to some specific narrative you've come up with, you still have to jump through a ton of hoops and uninteresting micromanagement and mathematical calculations on resource usage to do that.
In a lot of ways, by trying to be a 4x and a GSG at the same time, it fails on both counts. It doesn't offer the flexibility of action to make the GSG mostly-automated careful planning and long term strategy part work, nor does it have good enough tradeoffs and decision trees to make the 4X gameplay feel satisfying. Which is a shame, because I really love the core idea behind Stellaris and it's definitely got a good basis for realizing that idea, but a lot of how it's been implemented feels lacking.
Just as a small example, ask yourself why most 4x games limit your construction projects in a given city/planet/system to one at a time. Why do you have to choose between building a new aqueduct or training a bunch of spearmen? By putting you in a situation where you're choosing between two non-equivalents you then have to figure out what your priorities are. Do you want more military power, or do you want to be able to grow your city better? Are you looking to fight someone tomorrow, or someone in twenty turns? Stellaris doesn't force you to make those decisions generally. Limited minerals attempts to approximate this, but the sheer volume of minerals you get vastly outstrips the costs, and since they're empire wide you can use all your already large built-up locations to fund each additional location, reducing their cost impact over-all.
I really want Stellaris to be an amazing game, and I think if it just decided which side of the road it wanted to be on, either a GSG with most of the action handled by the AI with you setting policies, dealing with international politics and deciding the direction of your empire and when to take grand sweeping action, or a 4X game where you spend your efforts deciding how exactly to build each system to maximize its effectiveness towards your specific goal and competing with others to accomplish that goal as quickly and effectively as possible, it has the bones to be good in that role. But trying to be both is leading to both sides feeling weak and uninteresting.
You have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
You are stringing words together in a grammatically correct fashion, yet without any meaningful substance or reflection.
Name a single 'Early Access' Game that is remotely as stable and functional as Stellaris?
You are using words with meaning but substituting meanings alien to what these words mean.
Early Access is a development funding strategy, not a measurement of development in comparison to your own personal expectations.
Stellaris is a fully funded game, and is easily one of the most stable and relatively bug free launches in recent gaming history.
If stellaris had major UI improvements, such as macro builders and whatnot, there wouldn't be any clicking left. Only thing left would be few more clicks and staring blankly at the screen, and watch your precious time go by. Honestly, this is one of those games you just leave and not come back to it after a while. A WHILE. Gonna go play some ES2 and Andromeda until stellaris fever comes back.
I'd say that's a pretty close to how I'd see it. To me Stellaris feels a lot like EU3 - pretty good basics, but oh so much room for more meat on those bones.
the overtly inclusive message boxes are annoying, otherwise you can leave the game and come back in 3 hrs and much has changed
After thinking about this for a while, and going over my own list of "wanted QoL improvements" like auto-upgrading of buildings, various " _____ all" options, I might have to agree, because taking away all the extra clicking that can be streamlined through various UI improvements, I think I spend about 90% of my time in-game just... waiting. I AM in the late-game, so it's exaggerated, but I there's a rush of new and interesting stuff in the early-game, and then not much until the end-game crisis (which I'd say really is the mid-game), and then consolidating my hold over the galaxy.
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