Stellaris - Fleets confused, and won't close on enemy titan?

[StrangelySmooth]

Description
Fleets confused, and won't close on enemy titan?

Game Version
Orion V3.6.1 (a6c5)

What version do you use?
Steam

What expansions do you have installed?


Do you have mods enabled?
(DID NOT ANSWER QUESTION)

Please explain your issue is in as much detail as possible.
Fleet combat problems... So I far surpass my enemy fleets, but I sent in 2 fleets of pure corvettes (about 130k each). The problem I experiences was, in the enemy fleet they had multiple ships, but specifically a titan firing from it's maximum range. This stopped my ships from closing, they just spun doing circles while the titan picked off a ship at a time. Until a 3rd fleet with a similar weapon showed up, and killed the titan. As soon as their titan was destroyed, their fleet teleported to within range of my ships, and they swarmed, and murdered them. Their fleet was only about 30k

So where i think the bug is... my ships wouldn't chase it down, they seemed to forget they were swarm design, and instead allowed all ships to follow the titans combat computer rules? I really don't know what it was besides annoying. I don't think it's the first time this has come up.

The pic has nothing to do with this, but I seem to have to upload an attachment, and that seems silly. The enemy fleet is already destroyed. It's an Ironman game, and I can't go back in time to take a pic...

Steps to reproduce the issue.


Upload Attachment
File(s) attached

 

[Starfire Breeze]

I've seen this happen at times as well, but it's unclear to me what the trigger condition is. Sometimes, in my experience, reloading a saved game from before the combat (if you have one...) is enough for fleets not to get stuck in a mode where (even with, say, torpedo combat computers) they refuse to close to within firing range. The fact that (at least in my repros), the same combat being run from a reloaded save doesn't reliably cause the combat computer behavior to go completely off the rails like this, of course, makes it hard to provide a reliable repro for someone to analyze.

 

[StrangelySmooth]

The same thing is happening now against a 4.3k orbital platform... 100k fleet, has lost 30 ships so far... just going back, and forth... getting picked off....

 

[StrangelySmooth]

So as I'm watching space battle after space battle, my ships won't close on space stations and other stuff. Am I just doing something wrong? It's rough seeing 100 -200k fleets get wrecked by an 18.8k station...

 

[StrangelySmooth]

So is this a post that has others that it should be merged with? Am I just not understanding how swarm computer works? I mean it sounds like they should just fly in on top of an enemy they can catch up with... so Battleships, Titans, Space Stations, and Orbital Platforms should be super easy to swarm, overwhelm. Instead they stay well out of range, and just kind of either spiral in place amongst themselves getting picked off, or do like a small flight path, also out of range of their short ranged weapons, and just die. This has happened a lot in my game, I've seen so many fleets die, now just kinda testing it out. I'd guess this has something to do with the new changes to space battle? Maybe it's always happened, and I never noticed.. I might be stupid.. it's highly probably.

 

[redredgreengreen]

Bump, since it just happened to me, too.

This bug is so frickin annoying, because when it happens it might as well be a "you arbitrarily lose" message. And it is guaranteed to happen at least once every game, usually more. This is the single biggest thing keeping me from playing right now, because 2 of my last 3 games involved me losing an important war (or being forced into a white peace) exclusively because of this.

 

[StrangelySmooth]

I've noticed two things... This bug... if my ships only have short range weapons, but are fighting against long range weapons. They won't close. They will stay at the enemies long range instead for some stupid reason. I thought it was supposed to be the ships with long range weapons, trying to retreat... why would the short range weapon ships.. corvettes and destroyers just park.... They have the advantage.

The other thing I've seen is if there are two weapon systems in a system like a station, and a planet ring. Ships will lose their target on the station, and go to the ring, and then lose target on the ring, and go to the station, and then lose target and go to the ring, and then lose target, and go to the station... never actually getting next to either, and just being reduced to space scrap.

 

[Rodmar18]

By the way, weapons target enemy ships but ships appear to behave as regard to the median position of the enemy fleet(s), and the position of their own admiral ship. Both are called an "anchor" in the script, they could well be called "attractors".


1. What I observed with the special system, a ringworld with lots of space stations, is that the more the attacking fleet gets closer, the more defensive stations enter the fray, at least as potential targets, and the target anchor (= enemy fleet median center?) is always pushed toward the center of the defensive fleet. As a result, the attacking fleet can bypass its original targets (still firing upon them, though), and reroutes toward the anchor's changing position, until it gets right in the middle of the defensive system. This can be won only by a vastly superior force.


2. I hope that the MIN range in ships' behaviors is still the range to the enemy anchor, and not the min range of the weapons in the slot :] (now that weapons have a min and a max range). Also, are strikecraft from carrier-computer battleships counted into the determination of the enemy anchor?

First screenshot: We are stuck. In grey, allies to my enemy, but not in this war. In yellow, my only remaining ship, a light carrier (cruiser with carrier computer). In blue, my allies with several remaining ships.

Second screenshot: one month later, my cruiser is still sending one strikecraft after another one.

Third screenshot: two more months later, nothing has changed.

Fourth screenshot; you can tell that allied ships are busy circling thanks to their green trails.

Fifth screenshot: I changed the parameters in ships behaviors from MIN/MED/MAX to straight numbers (derived from the ASB mod: 3.3/8/14/16/28 (those are ancient vanilla values divided by 6 or so, because I play with Real Space - SiS Hard mod; in ASB, formation distance = preferred attack range = return to formation distance). After I reload behaviors, all fleet move toward the enemy fleet.

Sixth screenshot: the battle is ended, and you can see my light carrier among the survivors.

 

[Rodmar18]

Another set of pictures, illustrating case 1. above (that an attacking fleet behaves strangely in presence of several enemy fleets): here's Sanctuary star system
The action took part before I changed the behaviors.
First five screenshots are taken at first attempt. I managed to attack but a single outpost for several days.
Next screenshots are taken after a reload, and this time, I misplaced my fleet and two outposts were targeted.

First and second screenshots: the plan is to take those outposts one by one before the main fleets arrive.
Fleet layout: 5x Siege destroyers (L1M1), one escort (S1P3), 2x Siege cruisers (L2M2). Medium slots are filled with T3 electrical cannons, so their range (13) is not that inferior to that of the large plasma canons mounted on the cruisers, nor superior than that of the Cloud Lightning (10) (ranges are divided by 6 in this game).

Third screenshot: battle has just begun.
Fourth screenshot: while they are still firing at their first target, we clearly see how my artillery-computer destroyers bypass it completely. The two arti cruisers are clearly following them, while still firing plasma balls at the outpost.
Fifth screenshot: what attracts the attacking fleet that can't stay at range to bomb their initial target?


Sixth screenshot: next try, with debug lines on: battle begins as the combat panel pops up. I failed to engage but one outpost.

Three last screenshots: we can see that the dark debug lines, shift toward the whole enemy fleet center, instead of remaining at the middle point of the two initial targets. The attacking fleet seems to be attracted by this convergence point.

 

[StrangelySmooth]

any changes, or updates?

 

[DeinonychusTaco]

Also seeing this in 3.8. I have one save where it's very reproduceable, but unfortunately I have a bunch of mods enabled. I can try to play a vanilla game after this one and see if I can get it to happen again.

In the case of the reproduceable save, I engage with an enemy fleet that has a Titan, and all goes fine for a little bit, then when my fleet starts to win the Titan suddenly backs off and gets away while my fleets are focused on cleaning up the rest of the ships. The titan (I think a carrier?) goes and parks on the other side of the system and wiggles back and forth a bit, and my fleets just refuse to leave the original battle site, they just kind of circle there instead of closing on the one remaining ship.

 

[StrangelySmooth]

Also seeing this in 3.8. I have one save where it's very reproduceable, but unfortunately I have a bunch of mods enabled. I can try to play a vanilla game after this one and see if I can get it to happen again.

In the case of the reproduceable save, I engage with an enemy fleet that has a Titan, and all goes fine for a little bit, then when my fleet starts to win the Titan suddenly backs off and gets away while my fleets are focused on cleaning up the rest of the ships. The titan (I think a carrier?) goes and parks on the other side of the system and wiggles back and forth a bit, and my fleets just refuse to leave the original battle site, they just kind of circle there instead of closing on the one remaining ship.

yeah, it's stuff like that. Totally messed up. Those ships should simply dive right in.

 

[Rayzen10]

this is still a thing ...

 

[StrangelySmooth]

Clearly

 

[StrangelySmooth]

We have options... we can give up, or we can keep asking, in the hopes that it one day changes. Some of us don't like giving up!