I was replying to a thread that was making the comparison between systems of games as they stand now.
Stellaris feels like a game made by EA.
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I was replying to a thread that was making the comparison between systems of games as they stand now.
I always felt that most Paradox titles were fairly versatile in what play styles one could approach them with. Some players go for achievements, others play competitively against others, others roleplay, others just want to watch a story unfold. I do agree that Stellaris very strongly leans towards the last group right now, which to me isn't a bad thing (all I want is a story generator
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I feel like I was the only person to like the HOI 3 espionage system. I thought it was cool and the political system was cool too. It's a shame it has all become so shallow for HOIIV (allthough the combat looks so much better in HOI IV)
About the interface:
If after 30 hours you're still not sure as to what the game has to OFFER the game has a too complicated interface. Yes, I do realize that many PDX games fall in this category and I still love them. It's not because it "only" takes 10 hours to be able to know and handle all game mechanics that the game is flawed. If it only takes 10 hours to MASTER the mechanics THEN the game is flawed. This is not the case with Stellaris. The interfacesimply has advantages over other PDX games, tho future features are bound to counteract that in part. Again, which doesn't mean those other games are bad. Sometimes complexity is confused with depth.
About victory conditions:
IMHO a GS game doesn't need victory conditions. You make your own, if you finish the game at all. I've never even hit the end time in Vic2. I'm free to ignore features. I'm ignoring the arbitrary victory conditions. I'll set my own goals, thank you very much.
About the non-constructive, hyperbolic comparison with EA:
If this REALLY were an EA-game it would cost $ 59.99, have NO modding support whatsoever, and these are a few of the DLC you would see, one as a pre-order bonus only and one two months after release:
Stellaris is absolutely, certainly, without a doubt already worth its purchase price.
If after 30 hours you're still not sure as to what the game has to OFFER the game has a too complicated interface. Yes, I do realize that many PDX games fall in this category and I still love them. It's not because it "only" takes 10 hours to be able to know and handle all game mechanics that the game is flawed. If it only takes 10 hours to MASTER the mechanics THEN the game is flawed. This is not the case with Stellaris. The interfacesimply has advantages over other PDX games, tho future features are bound to counteract that in part. Again, which doesn't mean those other games are bad. Sometimes complexity is confused with depth.
About victory conditions:
IMHO a GS game doesn't need victory conditions. You make your own, if you finish the game at all. I've never even hit the end time in Vic2. I'm free to ignore features. I'm ignoring the arbitrary victory conditions. I'll set my own goals, thank you very much.
About the non-constructive, hyperbolic comparison with EA:
If this REALLY were an EA-game it would cost $ 59.99, have NO modding support whatsoever, and these are a few of the DLC you would see, one as a pre-order bonus only and one two months after release:
- Stellaris: Young And Old. $ 29.99. Interact with the youngest of species. Observe them, invade them and if they're pre-sentient you can even uplift them! Watch out for the immensely powerful Fallen Empires. Will you risk their wrath with your domestic policies? Will you band together with other Empires to take them down?
- Stellaris: Halls Of Knowledge. $ 15.99. With this revolutionary new research system every game will be different! No longer be curtailed by a static research tree but have the available technologies be dictated by who you are, what you find, who you kill, what you survey and simple cruel luck!
- Stellaris: Conquer And Divide. $ 15.99. Tired of micro-managing your sprawling Empire? Now you assign planets to sectors! Give them priorities, manage their leaders and reap the rewards!
- Stellaris: Final Frontiers. $ 29.99. Go explore new worlds! Build the new Science Ships and have a bold explorer lead them across the galaxy. Engage in exciting events. Find baffling anomalies. Discover all the stories the galaxy has in store for you!
- Stellaris: Strength Trough Unity. $ 15.99. Band together with your allies and form a powerful Federation! Reap the benefits of the Federation Fleet using all of its members most powerful technology!
- Stellaris: The Oncoming Storm. $ 15.99. Think you've won? Think you're on top of the universe? Think again. Being big, powerful and advanced can be dangerous. Three exciting new end-game crises will require all your wits to defeat them!
- Stellaris: Content Pack 1: $ 19.99. Ten new race portraits, one new fleet and three new traits!
Stellaris is absolutely, certainly, without a doubt already worth its purchase price.
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You could perhaps make the point that Stellaris compares unfavourably to Eu4 or CK2 as they stand today in terms of complexity (I don't know about when they were released, as I did not play them then, I suspect a lot of people are actually comparing them with how they are now, after tons of DLC expansions and free content updates ) but to say it lacks complexity compared to other 4x games is just utterly ridiculous.
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That would suggest those 4 things are all compulsory. They're not. It's not a 4X game.
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Actually not really since there was no deal for 30 bucks that were available to generally everyone and the base price was still 40 bucks. Furthermore EA games are generally 60 bucks on release. And some games do actually have these EA access thing which gives you I believe 10% off everything from the base game to expansions and so on. Also the latest game that EA released has a base edition cost of actually 30 bucks.
The core problem is that there are no "telling the story of your empire" mechanics in Stellaris, unlike CK2 or their other previous games which allowed at least some semblance of role-playing. Stellaris is just a real-time space 4X with lackluster content, no matter how much you want to deny it and deflect valid arguments regarding the game's faults
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I think the sublimed in the culture are capable of waving a hand and simply erasing lesser civilizations from existence, they have become reality warping gods, far beyond the need for simple "technology". They just don't because they don't care.
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It's a 4X game for sure, no need to discuss that.
You say that you felt like you didn't even see half of the things game could offer after 30 hours of gameplay but the vanilla version of EU4 is really shallow, empty and simple compared to the EU4 we have now. So many new mechanics added, so many balance decisions made... Same will happen to Stellaris too. That is the Paradox way of doing things, I have no idea why you're talking like that's a new thing. They've done that with every game so far.
You say that you felt like you didn't even see half of the things game could offer after 30 hours of gameplay but the vanilla version of EU4 is really shallow, empty and simple compared to the EU4 we have now. So many new mechanics added, so many balance decisions made... Same will happen to Stellaris too. That is the Paradox way of doing things, I have no idea why you're talking like that's a new thing. They've done that with every game so far.
You misunderstand me, i don't think somebody is standing there saying "We could add this awesome feature, but we won't HON HON HON ! BAGUETTE!" but considering Paradox business model do you find it unreasonable at all that the game design as a whole from the ground up is built to be compatible with the business model? It makes sense from a business perspective to focus on a select number of features and flesh those out and leave a list of things to be added post-release, that is what i meant with shallow. What is in Stellaris is in general well fleshed out, but it seriously lacks depth and i guarantee you that that depth will arrive in 2 installments of 15 € a piece in the next year.
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If this was EA you'd pay $60 dollars for half the game you'd have to pay another $60 for the other half then Stellaris 2 would come out next year. Rinse and repeat. It's a joke of a comparison. If PDS were EA we'd be on EU8 by now.
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The idea that there are things in 4X games that are "canon" is exactly what has been holding the genre back since Master of Orion.
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Precisely the way you defined it. We're not arguing about definitions here. I'm saying Stellaris is not a 4X game.
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In regards to EA games being more polished way back.
Sure.
They are more well polished turds.
Paradox games are very rough diamonds that need careful treatment to improve them gradually.
I know my preference.
Sure.
They are more well polished turds.
Paradox games are very rough diamonds that need careful treatment to improve them gradually.
I know my preference.
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Are we talking about the same game here? You're forced to eXplore in order to do anything with star systems. You're forced to eXpand because unlike better 4X, there are no benefits to playing tall in Stellaris. You're forced to eXploit resources in order to advance. Unless you plan on doing nothing for the rest of your game once you run out of space, you're also forced into path of eXtermination and military conquest.
Or are you arguing that Civilization games aren't 4X because there are civs that can also win without waging war? Or are you perhaps arguing that playing the game itself isn't compulsory, therefore it's not 4X?
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Stellaris is a game in which players control an empire and "eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate". Thus follows it's a 4X game.
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