Stellaris Dev Diary #77 - Ethics Voice Packs

[Coyote027]

, I was thinking about how people from Sweden, a country that recently, officially recognized that it cannot defend itself, are so ingrained with an anti-military ethic that they cannot conceive of a militarist as being anything other than a foaming-at-the-mouth lunatic. Sorry if that offends you as a Swede (although it was the subject of an official government report)

I have to agree with the merit of this, there's definitely cultural bias involved. It's easy to be an anti-militarist in Sweden, where there hasn't been a war in many years and the last foreign campaign was a self-imposed disaster. If you ask a Pole or Israeli about militarism, however, you're probably going to get a very different viewpoint. They have a living memory of the horror that comes with being a civilian getting the short end of the stick, and they understand in a way that a Swede probably could not, that if someone's pointing a rifle at you, you'd dang well better have a rifle to point back at him or you're likely in for a bad time.
Militarism is not by any means all about conquering and subjugating at all. Often it's about protecting the people you love, and being willing and strong enough to face down any horror imaginable to do so.

 

[Riekopo]

I really love VIR. Though I think it could incorporate more tips. Please add an advisor to all your games.

 

[HAL.9000.1]

That is a good point. If the authoritarian VO makes references to slaves it won't suit democratic crusaders. The militarist doesn't suit. So, if the xenophile is too pacifist, democratic crusaders would have no options. Considering this, the VOs will probably be as generic as possible, so I imagine that the authoritarian can be used by militarists. I think this was implied earlier, anyway.

Well, from the "cry havoc" quote from Shakespeare, it doesn't seem like they are erring too much on the side of bland, generic scripts. Since they seem to feel that authoritarians are slave-oriented, I could see a lot of "Enemy fleet detected, master" stuff uttered in an unctuous tone to ham that one up as well. Or the Jonathan Harris-voiced robot from the original Battlestar Galactica, with his oily "By Your Command" line.

And while we're on the subject of Shakespeare and that quote (which we really weren't, but we are now because: warning, topic change!), I will say that the "Cry Havoc" quote, taken out of context as it is (and was in the Star Trek movie which is probably where the VIR script writer saw it), is my second least-favorite misquote, the most least-favorite of which is "Now is the winter of our discontent", which is often quoted in just that way, when the actual full quote is "Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this sun (or son, choose your pun) of York", meaning precisely the opposite of the way it is usually quoted.

 

[Major Richard Sharpe]

I must say. I've never been more disappointed in a game developer before, and that's something i didn't expect to ever say after the MEA and ME3 and DOW3 debacles. As someone who has worked alongside many many female officers, i can state, that at least in my country, they don't sound like the VA unless they are deliberately trying to 'be funny/different/joking'. In fact, as someone who has a reputation for being a starched stick up buttock person, i find the VA methodology for Fmilitarists to be completely unacceptable and even insulting by implication for a regimented hierarchical society/force. In fact, it's insulting by implication for female Officers. Our commanders do NOT sound like that at all and i resent the implication that 'a high ranking woman in an armed service must sound like that'. That voice makes more sense for the 'warrior culture' civic and packs of poorly disciplined barbarian ground pounders (or completely unhinged and genocidal/zealous/both fleet commanders). Guess ill only use that voice for when i do my "One planet, no fleet, Fanatic Militarist, isolationist, backwater barbarian" playthrough.

 

[HAL.9000.1]

Ok....question, that might save this whole thing. We need to wait for the whole voiceover, maybe only this one line was s step into poop. If the whole militarist voice is along the horde style, I want to ask - do you have the script/draft/initial recordings of a cool calculating grand strategist, which we could pick alternatively?

If you do and they are of a female character, you could actually run a double blind study to confirm your hypothesis. If we as a fan base pick none, we hate women. If we pick the calculating one over the berserker, than all the heat you get is really about the directorial mistake, rather than your assumed misogyny. Actually, that would be interesting data to see. Do you agree?

Unfortunately, I think that the Observer Effect means that you will change the results simply by the act of running the test. But in any case, to really run the experiment you would have to find a large group of people who haven't played the game enough to be aware of this thread (oh great, the opinions of a bunch of casual/amateur players), and then test two variables mixed and matched into four options: male vs. female and cool calculating script vs. Khan from Star Trek II (who mostly quoted Melville, but that's beside the point).

 

[Scorchlite]

Yes, I've encountered something like that. As overt racism and sexism receded, the institutions that were built on fighting racism and sexism did what every institution does when their raison d'etre ceases to be: they invent a new reason to keep collecting checks. Viola! Unconscious biases are born! It's impossible not to be sexist, sexism infuses everything around you, you cannot be free from it. It's the new modern original sin! Except, while in the old religion you could be saved through baptism and confession, nowadays there is no water to wash you clean and confession just means we get to savage you all the more. You cannot be saved! You are forever condemned, and you must be made to suffer to appease the unappeasable gods.

This is basically what Rousseau taught, embodied in his "noble savage" myth. You would have thought 20,000 headless bodies would have corrected that error. Instead, people keep taking it as a challenge.

I see what you're saying, but it all reeks of 'institution this' and all that kind of stuff that is so popular to throw around these days. Just because people may dislike the way campaigners throw stuff in people's faces about equality, it doesn't mean there is no basis of truth to anything related to it. I strongly disagree with your assertion (if I am reading it right) that it is all made up bullshit because people want to complain about inequality. What I am saying is not something to be corrected socially or any agenda or anything else like that. It is merely for people to be aware that you react to things unconsciously and instinctively before processing it in the rest of your brain. These reactions are going to be based on what you expect and what you are used to and this is going to be determined by culture and upbringing / surroundings. I really do not think this is to be unexpected and I was not at all surprised as I have observed it in myself and others.

 

[Spidee]

Unfortunately, I think that the Observer Effect means that you will change the results simply by the act of running the test. But in any case, to really run the experiment you would have to find a large group of people who haven't played the game enough to be aware of this thread (oh great, the opinions of a bunch of casual/amateur players), and then test two variables mixed and matched into four options: male vs. female and cool calculating script vs. Khan from Star Trek II (who mostly quoted Melville, but that's beside the point).

I know I will not be able to achieve a double blind study, but it would hell of closer and more telling that the percentages have thrown in our faces. I would like to have that test run in either case and either we as a fan base would get an apology or we would as individuals in the fan base send a note to to Wiz and co saying "sorry you have to deal with such sorry excuses of human beings". Either way I think it would force one party of this argument to concede their point to hard data. Observer effect might not be so strong, btw, as I think the majority of the players don't read the forum and you could collect the data without the playerbase knowing it.

 

[Scorchlite]

I disagree. What you describe has nothing to do with militarism. It is cartoon militarism. It might more accurately be defined as a "warrior ethos", although in the context of the game that's just a trait, not an ethical choice and certainly not a part of reality since the barbarian hordes were defeated here on earth. No civilization describing itself as militarist and choosing, say, citizen service and meritocracy or distinguished admirals would ever have anyone in a position of responsibility that would be as unhinged as the character in that voice clip, yet that is (apparently) what we will be saddled with as the default for a militaristic ethical choice.

Nothing will fit every mold perfectly. You can cite examples of misfits and whatnot to a whole number of things. Fact is, short of making many times more VOs, some are not going to fit a specific setup. That is just inevitable. But it IS a militaristic society, just not one with a strict heirarchy (which I'm increasingly thinking is authoritarian in it's most base form) that you were expecting. I don't see how it it cartoony. Do you think fanatical purifiers or devouring hordes are cartoony? What aspects does something need to be considered cartoony as opposed to... adult? I also don't see the relevance to barbarian hordes on earth... like.. at all.. sorry :\ . As for distinguished admirals.. of course that society can fit that one.... and citizen service. Broaden your imagination and don't just stick to one set conception... reduce the civics to their most basic identity and it becomes much easier.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

I, for one, love the new VOs.

My favorite so far is the Egalitarian one for invading an enemy planet:
"Deploying Liberation Forces", with a very thick american accent.

 

[ramius3443]

@Wiz
If I may offer a small suggestion: Change the VO directions for the militarist from, "Crazy psychopath" to "Disciplined soldier", or if it must be crazy, "Stereotypical drill sergeant".

Spoiler: Examples

Officer

Drill Sergeant
(Similar tone as currently, but more angry yelling and less Shakespeare)

Problem solved.

I, for one, love the new VOs.

My favorite so far is the Egalitarian one for invading an enemy planet:
"Deploying Liberation Forces", with a very thick american accent.

 

[HAL.9000.1]

As someone who has worked alongside many many female officers, i can state, that at least in my country, they don't sound like the VA unless they are deliberately trying to 'be funny/different/joking'. In fact, as someone who has a reputation for being a starched stick up buttock person, i find the VA methodology for Fmilitarists to be completely unacceptable and even insulting by implication for a regimented hierarchical society/force. In fact, it's insulting by implication for female Officers. Our commanders do NOT sound like that all and i resent the implication that 'a high ranking woman in an armed service must sound like that'. That voice makes more sense for the 'warrior culture' civic and packs of poorly disciplined barbarian ground pounders (or completely unhinged and genocidal/zealous/both fleet commanders). Guess ill only use that voice for when i do my "One planet, no fleet, Fanatic Militarist, isolationist, backwater barbarian" playthrough.

Well said, although I personally took it as an insult to all serving military, and not just females. That was just the icing on the cake, so to speak.

P.S. For some reason, the subject of your honors dissertation reminds me of my own, which was (I don't have it handy, as I wrote it about 40 years ago) about how the U.S. won the Spanish-American War with its miniscule (interesting how spellcheck is hanging on to the old spelling of that word) professional army, and all of the volunteers they called up and exposed to malaria were basically unnecessary casualties.

 

[Darkspysrival]

I, for one, love the new VOs.

My favorite so far is the Egalitarian one for invading an enemy planet:
"Deploying Liberation Forces", with a very thick american accent.

I can't tell if you're joking or serious, but you've become my new favorite Paradox employee with that comment.

 

[D Inqu]

What's VIR again?

 

[HAL.9000.1]

Nothing will fit every mold perfectly. You can cite examples of misfits and whatnot to a whole number of things. Fact is, short of making many times more VOs, some are not going to fit a specific setup. That is just inevitable. But it IS a militaristic society, just not one with a strict heirarchy (which I'm increasingly thinking is authoritarian in it's most base form) that you were expecting. I don't see how it it cartoony. Do you think fanatical purifiers or devouring hordes are cartoony? What aspects does something need to be considered cartoony as opposed to... adult? I also don't see the relevance to barbarian hordes on earth... like.. at all.. sorry :\ . As for distinguished admirals.. of course that society can fit that one.... and citizen service. Broaden your imagination and don't just stick to one set conception... reduce the civics to their most basic identity and it becomes much easier.

You are not listening. My point is this: the VO is not "militaristic", because it adopts a tone, and uses a script NEVER EMPLOYED BY ANY MILITARY ANYWHERE, EVER, except in the minds of people who have never been in, associated with, or even ever met anyone who has been in the military, and choose to make up behaviors, dialog and characteristics based not on reality, but on cartoonish prejudices of what the military must be like.

Your not seeing the relevance of my reference to barbarian hordes is equally obtuse. Whether deliberately or for rhetorical purposes I do not know. The VO does not match that of a professional military demeanor, but it does sound vaguely like that of the leader of a barbarian horde. Which, again, has nothing to do with the ethos of anyone who could have actually ever made it into space without blowing themselves up either first or immediately thereafter, except in the mind of someone who has no familiarity with the concept of military service in the modern age.

And finally, don't tell me to "broaden my imagination". It is plenty broad. If they want to create barbarian hordes in space, fine. Give that aberration its own ethos, and that VO. But don't saddle people who just want to play an orderly, professional militaristic society with that stereotype and not give them any options to work around it (again, I don't think authoritarian will fit that bill, because of the in-game effects it provides, which are societal and creepy, and not military at all).

 

[HAL.9000.1]

What's VIR again?

It's just the name of the in-game tutorial advisor, which even when you turn it off remains as the voice of all in-game verbal notifications.

 

[Major Richard Sharpe]

Can we use something like this for fanatic purifiers? (maybe fanatic spiritualist + xenophobe?)

 

[Gomine]

Now for Egalitarians I'm going to be constantly wondering "Which American accent, Western, Texan, Midwestern, Southern I wanna know

 

[Coyote027]

My favorite so far is the Egalitarian one for invading an enemy planet:
"Deploying Liberation Forces", with a very thick american accent.

 

[Zavaleta]

I guess I will add my opinion. The militarist voice is my least favorite. I would prefer a female voice, but less hammy, and grainy. I think other suggested the SMAC militarist voice as a good example to emulate. I agree.

 

[MacKenzieSVFD]

I agree at a lot of things you said here, but I don't agree in the part where Wiz is supposed to lie and/or not say what he really thinks just because of business reasons.

This is a forum, we debate things here. If he thinks like this, so be it, I defend hist right to say this as much as I defend the right we can disagree with him and tell he's wrong. Don't want to censorship people because of money or business and much less start benning people that disagree with the devs.

That's all well and good. Well, it's not actually because conflating professional behavior with censorship... but yeah, well and good...

The fact still remains that unless your business is shock-jock radio, or something similar, you don't put the person with bad people skills into positions that require customer engagement. Has nothing to do with censorship or 'bennings'.

I stated why that is a fact in my initial post, but I will be fair and expand on that point here.

You put someone in a customer service position, they will be acting as the 'face' of your business, the person your customers will be interacting with personally/on the phone/ect. How that person behaves reflects upon the business he's representing. The customer is going to remember how that employee treated them. They are going to remember if that employee had a nasty attitude and the customer is going to remember that they had to ask for manager to get anything resembling decent respect. They're not going to remember the nice VP of sales they never met, they're not going to remember the bunch of good guys and gals down at the factory who would give you half of their last meal if you said you were hungry... they're going to remember that employee who's a jerk. They're going to remember where that jerk works. Who that jerk works for.

That goes for all levels of employment. From the register jockeys up to the CEOs. Say what you want on your own twitter, facebook or whatever. Say the most controversial things you want. Say the same things on the company twitter account or public facebook page however... don't be shocked or surprised when whoever signs your paychecks tells you that you are welcome to go to the competition and behave that way. I have literally fired people for such behavior and yes, encouraged them to go work for the competition. Even gave the reference.

And as for crying censorship over these facts.... get out, serioiusly just get out.