Stellaris Dev Diary #202: Nemesis Ship Set & Art Direction

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Bezborg

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Final version is a conservative choice, and looks more like a Borg aesthetic than an “Imperial”, “Grand” and “Imposing” one. The evil is barely concealed :D I believe you have a nice machine shipset there, but not for a galactic empire that fits your design goals of a grand old imperium.

If anything, perhaps design a “galactic” shipset that is inspired by elements from all the race types.
 
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Verx90

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If anything, perhaps design a “galactic” shipset that is inspired by elements from all the race types.

mhh ... i know what you mean, but i think it would just be a mess :D

i think the "best" way would be to make 1"upgraded" shipset for evry racial shipset , so the empire that become custodian or emperor have theyrs .

but it is impossible and require alot of work and i'm probably thinking too much about SW ( where the empire is guided by humans) with the idea of a race being the main member of the GC.
 
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Lazy Name

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Just a small reminder that this shipset will also be used by the GDF, which might possibly be part of the reason why the really extravagant designs weren't chosen. I know that if I had elected an empire to be our final defense against the crisis, supported them as our leader against the apocalyptic threat on our doorstep, and told them to build the greatest armada the galaxy has ever seen... I'd certainly hope that they wouldn't be using my funding on gold trim and abstract art.

Personally, I think my ideal world would have the GDF start out with the current shipset, since the neutral and brutalist design fits the GDF pretty well. However, when the Imperial Armada is formed, it would change into a similar but slightly more ornamental design, similar to the middle concept from Ylva Ljungqvist. That would represent the subtle shift in values nicely, going from a practical defense force to an imperial show of power. But then again, I can't expect the developers to make two shipsets just because it'd be nice to have.
 
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Bezborg

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Just a small reminder that this shipset will also be used by the GDF, which might possibly be part of the reason why the really extravagant designs weren't chosen. I know that if I had elected an empire to be our final defense against the crisis, supported them as our leader against the apocalyptic threat on our doorstep, and told them to build the greatest armada the galaxy has ever seen... I'd certainly hope that they wouldn't be using my funding on gold trim and abstract art.

Personally, I think my ideal world would have the GDF start out with the current shipset, since the neutral and brutalist design fits the GDF pretty well. However, when the Imperial Armada is formed, it would change into a similar but slightly more ornamental design, similar to the middle concept from Ylva Ljungqvist. That would represent the subtle shift in values nicely, going from a practical defense force to an imperial show of power. But then again, I can't expect the developers to make two shipsets just because it'd be nice to have.
Why not tho? Is making shipsets somehow incredibly difficult for a big studio? Modders do it in their free time, after a full day of work or school. Why is this bar so low? DLCs are not cheap, two shipsets is like...out of the question?
 
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jamezilla

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Can you please make it possible to make non-gestalt machines? I can't be the only one who wants that.
 
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Can you please make it possible to make non-gestalt machines? I can't be the only one who wants that.

its the ascension . thats how you get a machine empire that is non-gestal ....

if you want an imbalanced one, i think there is a mod for it somewhere.
 
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jamezilla

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its the ascension . thats how you get a machine empire that is non-gestal ....

if you want an imbalanced one, i think there is a mod for it somewhere.
No, no. Not ascended organics, just individualistic machines, like Transformers or Cylons.
 

Ashantai

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Please keep your posts on topic and productive.
 
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Verx90

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No, no. Not ascended organics, just individualistic machines, like Transformers or Cylons.
Thats the point , for the game idea of linear tech ( and balance) to be able to craft individualistic machines you need a way more advanced tech than the starting one .
 
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jamezilla

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Thats the point , for the game idea of linear tech ( and balance) to be able to craft individualistic machines you need a way more advanced tech than the starting one .
No, just be able to pick machine species and some other form of government than gestalt.
 
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Darrenb209

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Why not tho? Is making shipsets somehow incredibly difficult for a big studio? Modders do it in their free time, after a full day of work or school. Why is this bar so low? DLCs are not cheap, two shipsets is like...out of the question?

Alright, let's see if I can explain it in a simple way.

The longest and most drawn out part of making art for a game is the concept phase and the design/redesign phase. Modders get to skip this part, because the shipsets they are "designing" are based on other, existing art or outright ripped.

The concepts and designs already exist and just need to be adapted, for modders. And they can also take shortcuts that paid art designers can't when it comes to the small details.

Then you have the transfer to 3D, animations and sound all of which modders have an advantage in, the sounds almost always already exist, the animations are usually ripped or just need to be put together and they start at the transfer to 3D point or already have 3D bases.

Modders also rarely work as part of a team and so don't have design arguments stalling it or have to put the final result through a quality check.

But the big one is that for high quality mods, they're often a passion project done in free time. This means that the modders can and actually do often pull longer hours than workers because the workers can only work so many hours a day/week and because it's their job they're never going to be as enthused.

To be clear, I do not work at Paradox, I have no clue if they could have done more with the time they had, because I have no clue what amount of time they were given.

My point is that it's not as simple as "Modders can do it faster, so it's easy and so the workers must be being lazy if they can't come up with more, faster."
 
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Alright, let's see if I can explain it in a simple way.

The longest and most drawn out part of making art for a game is the concept phase and the design/redesign phase. Modders get to skip this part, because the shipsets they are "designing" are based on other, existing art or outright ripped.

The concepts and designs already exist and just need to be adapted, for modders. And they can also take shortcuts that paid art designers can't when it comes to the small details.

Then you have the transfer to 3D, animations and sound all of which modders have an advantage in, the sounds almost always already exist, the animations are usually ripped or just need to be put together and they start at the transfer to 3D point or already have 3D bases.

Modders also rarely work as part of a team and so don't have design arguments stalling it or have to put the final result through a quality check.

But the big one is that for high quality mods, they're often a passion project done in free time. This means that the modders can and actually do often pull longer hours than workers because the workers can only work so many hours a day/week and because it's their job they're never going to be as enthused.

To be clear, I do not work at Paradox, I have no clue if they could have done more with the time they had, because I have no clue what amount of time they were given.

My point is that it's not as simple as "Modders can do it faster, so it's easy and so the workers must be being lazy if they can't come up with more, faster."

I'd like to add , that al l shipset they add need to be updated evry time there is a new part/ship/concept that will interact with a ship set .

If they add ship sets with no fear , they will end up skyrottering the cost of just maintaining the ship. They could end up ignoring past DLC as other companies do , but paradox usualy put some love evrywhere .
 
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Verx90

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No, just be able to pick machine species and some other form of government than gestalt.

I dont think this is the place to discuss this .

As i said , its for balance reason , machines have avantage as pops over the organic one ,having them not inside the scheme of gestal rules would make them umbalanced for the game as a starting empire .
 
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Bezborg

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Alright, let's see if I can explain it in a simple way.

The longest and most drawn out part of making art for a game is the concept phase and the design/redesign phase. Modders get to skip this part, because the shipsets they are "designing" are based on other, existing art or outright ripped.

The concepts and designs already exist and just need to be adapted, for modders. And they can also take shortcuts that paid art designers can't when it comes to the small details.

Then you have the transfer to 3D, animations and sound all of which modders have an advantage in, the sounds almost always already exist, the animations are usually ripped or just need to be put together and they start at the transfer to 3D point or already have 3D bases.

Modders also rarely work as part of a team and so don't have design arguments stalling it or have to put the final result through a quality check.

But the big one is that for high quality mods, they're often a passion project done in free time. This means that the modders can and actually do often pull longer hours than workers because the workers can only work so many hours a day/week and because it's their job they're never going to be as enthused.

To be clear, I do not work at Paradox, I have no clue if they could have done more with the time they had, because I have no clue what amount of time they were given.

My point is that it's not as simple as "Modders can do it faster, so it's easy and so the workers must be being lazy if they can't come up with more, faster."
You make some sense there, and while your point can even apply to Stellaris broadly, I don’t think it applies to this update/dlc at all. I say this because that dreadnought doesn’t seem to me like it’s not based on pre-existing concepts and models. It looks like a brand new concept to you?
 

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You make some sense there, and while your point can even apply to Stellaris broadly, I don’t think it applies to this update/dlc at all. I say this because that dreadnought doesn’t seem to me like it’s not based on pre-existing concepts and models. It looks like a brand new concept to you?


all ships\stations have the same concept to make it easyer to manage and create 3d models , all dreadnought have the same dimension and basic model .

i don't even want to immagine how much it would cost to create new concept from 0 for evry dreadnought , titan , ships in general or stations . the debugging of evry model , and successive updates ...

it can be done , it is not easy or free to do unluckly .
 
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it can be done , it is not easy or free to do unluckly .
Other PDX Games have or had Cosmetic DLCs.
While such a policy leads to some concerns, I'd be happy to pay for Cosmetic DLCs if they would give my art thats up to my taste
 

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Other PDX Games have or had Cosmetic DLCs.
While such a policy leads to some concerns, I'd be happy to pay for Cosmetic DLCs if they would give my art thats up to my taste

i know there are such DLC , but even with those, they can't just make them and forget about them .

would you like to buy a DLC for a shipsets, and when a new kind of ship come out, that shipset doesn't have that ship in the particolar skin ?

how much copyes would sell of said DLC ? when the price to make the DLC and updating it with the game start to surpass the income of the DLC itself? whats the margin of income of the DLC ? how much work and investiment goes in the DLC?

they MAKE DLC that are of shipset (nowdays with other meccanics inside ) , considering they added to those DLC other factor , it stand to reason that those DLC did sell as intended, but no enought to considering flooding the game with those.

if they can make money with it, without backlash for some twisted mecanics or PTW , they will produce it and sell it .

after 5 years of stellaris and around 5 DLC ( i may be counting wrong) shipsets ( even if we could argue that 2 DLC had shipsets as plus more than the focus of the DLC) we can see that they find selling shipset DLC as not remunerative enought to have a stable increase of shipsets .
As i'm quite sure that they could make 1 shipsets come out evry 2-3 month if there was a chance to make money with it .
 

DrNukeLear

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@Brocololli is there a city set or empire background room to accompany the ship set?
 
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Bezborg

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i know there are such DLC , but even with those, they can't just make them and forget about them .

would you like to buy a DLC for a shipsets, and when a new kind of ship come out, that shipset doesn't have that ship in the particolar skin ?

how much copyes would sell of said DLC ? when the price to make the DLC and updating it with the game start to surpass the income of the DLC itself? whats the margin of income of the DLC ? how much work and investiment goes in the DLC?

they MAKE DLC that are of shipset (nowdays with other meccanics inside ) , considering they added to those DLC other factor , it stand to reason that those DLC did sell as intended, but no enought to considering flooding the game with those.

if they can make money with it, without backlash for some twisted mecanics or PTW , they will produce it and sell it .

after 5 years of stellaris and around 5 DLC ( i may be counting wrong) shipsets ( even if we could argue that 2 DLC had shipsets as plus more than the focus of the DLC) we can see that they find selling shipset DLC as not remunerative enought to have a stable increase of shipsets .
As i'm quite sure that they could make 1 shipsets come out evry 2-3 month if there was a chance to make money with it .
Why do you assume 1 ship set must be a self-standing dlc?

There are better solutions, either put 1 new/special shipset in every major DLC, or publish a major ship set DLC with several ship sets (perhaps 2 styles for every species fenotype). That one would be a money maker.
 

Verx90

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Why do you assume 1 ship set must be a self-standing dlc?

There are better solutions, either put 1 new/special shipset in every major DLC, or publish a major ship set DLC with several ship sets (perhaps 2 styles for every species fenotype). That one would be a money maker.

What change ? More shipset , more price to put on it because there is more work . Releasing 1 shipset dlc at 5 € or 10 shipsets at 50€ have the same problem .

It need for them to be worth the present and future investiment .