Stellaris Dev Diary #194: Intel

[PlasticFacecrops]

It'd also be a nice way to quietly commit Xenocide (eating pops / livestock / purges etc) without taking the opinion debuff (-1000)

If so, your victim should be able to tell everyone about it. I assume FTL communication networks would be pretty common in a mature galaxy, so they'd probably call up everyone who will listen to beg for help / curse your name.

Unless there was a way to jam all outgoing planetary communication, in which case the empire would see its own colonies go dark one by one and have no idea why.

 

[HighChanceOfRai]

If so, your victim should be able to tell everyone about it. I assume FTL communication networks would be pretty common in a mature galaxy, so they'd probably call up everyone who will listen to beg for help / curse your name.

Unless there was a way to jam all outgoing planetary communication, in which case the empire would see its own colonies go dark one by one and have no idea why.

Ah, thats what the Information Quarantines are for!

 

[HighChanceOfRai]

Seems strange that knowing where an empires capital is should come at low level intel. It should probably be medium or high level that reveals that. Many empires would wish to keep that secret especially from a new empire. xenophobes or militarists would definitely try to keep that secret always.

would it be possible to change the intel level for certain info based on the target empire's ethics and your own ethics?

Like if we look at sci fi for inspiration, in Starship Troopers the war between the humans and the bugs is kicked off when the bugs discover the location of the human homeworld via a third-party species the humans had previously trusted.

I think it should definitely be something you have to work at finding out

 

[Glargnarev]

The information on the empire to the galactic south-east is very limited. We can see their homeworld and the borders explored by our science ship.

Not sure i like this. Seems to easy to find out where an empires Homeworld is. Thats information an Empire would kill to protect.
If that is the case i hope it changes.

 

[tremor3258]

Please let science ships go in on listening posts and the like. That would be fun

 

[Nwaij]

A reason to build listening posts?

 

[Alekscool]

I see types of intel, but not how to get it.
How to get it? scouts, spyes or smth else?

 

[Calvax]

Not sure i like this. Seems to easy to find out where an empires Homeworld is. Thats information an Empire would kill to protect.
If that is the case i hope it changes.

I’m all for making a homeworld hidden, but we could probably do with the homeworld being more explicitly important. As it stands other than naturally being a well developed planet due to being the oldest one I don’t think there are any special considerations for one. If your homeworld is captured or destroyed you’d think you’d think your primary species would get a significant happiness debuff. Something like “Ancestral home conquered, -15% happiness 10 years” or “Ancestral home destroyed, -25% happiness 20 years”

Similarly changing your capital from your homeworld could have more nuanced effects on your culture. Little changes like this would help flesh out why a home system is something important to be hidden.

 

[VoodooDog]

pls give me races where it is 10 times harder to gather intel. or 100 times harder.

 

[Veras]

pls give me races where it is 10 times harder to gather intel. or 100 times harder.

Those will probably be Hive Minds

 

[Calvax]

Those will probably be Hive Minds

This certainly makes sense. Can’t blackmail a drone with no personal goals, can’t have your spies hide from the authorities when everyone is the authority, can’t honeypot an overseer that fertilises itself etc.

Hive minds having a natural buff to counter-espionage not only makes sense but would give them some much, much needed love.

EDIT: One thought from this is that deviancy/crime should make one more vulnerable to espionage/intelligence gathering.

 

[G S Palmer]

Hmm, is that a suspicion/secrecy value I see beside the Intel meter? Or is it "Espionage Mana", the amount of spying you can carry out against an empire? Or is it their spying capacity?

 

[TGK72]

I do not at all like that your homeworld is automatically revealed when contact is made. It should be different depending on the ethics. A xenophobic empire isn't going to to want to reveal the world of their birth, and especially won't want xeno dignitary scum to set foot on the planet, yet alone lay eyes on it on a map.

And the opposite should be true for peaceful egalitarian empire who made contact with an obviously secretive, militaristic and hostile authoritarian government too. If your first contact proved violent and all efforts to establish peaceful communications fail then the last thing you'd want to do is reveal the most important planet in your territory for potential galactic conquest. And as the authoritarian militarist empire you still wouldn't want anyone to know of your homeworld for the same reason whether they are peaceful or not

I think your homeworld should ONLY ever be revealed if BOTH of the empires are showing clear interest in peaceful communications and are actively trying to cooperate.

I know most empires of old here on earth knew of each other's capitals, usually very shortly after contact due to the intimate and in person nature of ancient communication and the fact that finding it and getting to it is as simple as walking straight to it using roads and directions from fellow travellers. But doing so in space with totally alien empires is completely different in every way. Space is huge and infiltrating an alien empire that looks nothing like you in the slightest wear the very air you breath is enough to give you away, especially early in the game where tech and genetic tampering is still primative, if an empire doesnt want you on their homeworld then doing so should be impossible without extreme effort and concealment.

 

[TGK72]

That is not the vote of the community, do not presume to speak for others. I vote that the homeworld should be one of the first things to become visible. Official exchanges with a different empire will likely take place on the homeworld. Just like in the real world, historically the first thing empires would know about eachother is their capitals. That is also how it works in most Civilization games, for example.

Comparing the nature of first contact with alien empires in the depths of space to how ancient human empires made contact between other empires the same species on the same planet during an age where communication for the most part had to be done or at least delivered in person is a very flawed way to look at it.

If you're a shy, hostile, or xenophobic empire it would be EXTREMELY easy to conceal the location of the most important planet in your territoy. Not only would very long distance communication likely be possible between the two empires so in person communication would be totally unneccesary, but space is HUGE. If you didn't want someone to know of your homeworlds location then it would be very easy for you to do so without extreme effort and tedious probing from the other empire. Hell, trying to keep the location of your homeworld from a either a potentially or blatantly hostile alien empire is a huge part of the plot of several scifi movies and series. (UNSC trying to keep the location of earth hidden from the covenant and the covenant only being able to find it through an extreme 1/1000000000 coincidence being one example.)

I vote STRONGLY for home world's NOT be revealed depending entirely on ethics and whether or not an empire wishes for it. Whether you're peaceful or not, you'll want to know of an empires intentions before revealing something as critical as the planet/habitat/megastructure of your species birth and therefore the most important one.

 

[Mímisbrunnr]

Devs: How much intel is shared between federation members?

 

[Franet]

I do not know if that has already been said here, but it is not at all interesting to know where the capital of the empire is, normally in all sci-fi history what is intended is precisely to hide or super protect your capital, since it is the planet more developed and political center.

Can spiritualists finally shine?

And finally, will this accompany a reformulation of traditions, making empires really more distinct from each other?

 

[Tamwin5]

That's very interesting. One thing, though..can you please replace "Stale" with "Outdated" (for better clarity) and, most importantly, show how long ago was the last reliable report on each section (army/research/economy)?
It could be just an info like "last report was 1 year and 5 months ago" when you over one of those sections with the mouse.

Knowing that your intel is outdated is not of much use if we can't be sure how much outdated it actually is.

P.S. how the intel is affected by the scan range? Will the sentry array permanently cap the intel of 2/3 of those sections for all the empires at the last stage? Are there countermeasures to this aspect in <REDACTED>?

I actually really like the terminology "stale", as it's short, succinct, but also captures the core essence of what it means. It's not completely outdated and useless, just a little past its prime. If you were ahead tech wise to another empire twenty years ago and have been keeping up ever since, you'd expect to still be ahead on tech. If you were inferior to another nation militarily and you haven't built up much more of a fleet, it'll probably still be the case (or maybe they lost a war in the meantime? you don't know).

100% agree on having a mouse over to tell exactly how long that information has been stale though. Knowing how long ago the last accurate report was is essential.

 

[Katsue]

I think Diplomatic Pacts and Galactic Community membership should both reveal the Empire homeworld regardless of Intel levels.

 

[adil3tr]

Something I would like is if there could still be some anomolies inside their territory for you to explore. A little like how in Civ V there would be artifacts from stuff in the early game.

 

[VerKer]

@Devs

Given my race has accumulated enough intel, will i be able to find out where my 1st democratic leader vanished to after the first election? And, will it enable me to bring him back as a governor, scientist, admiral or the like?