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Stellaris Dev Diary #194: Intel

Hello everyone!

Last week we started talking about some of the changes we’re making to establishing first contact, and as promised, today we will continue talking about how you can learn more about alien empires.

All of the things we are talking about today is work in progress and may not accurately reflect the finished product. That said, we still want to hear your thoughts and read your feedback!

Background
It always felt like there was so much missing potential when it came to learning more about alien civilizations in the game. We didn’t like that you had so much information as soon as you established communication with an alien empire – all of their borders would be revealed, and the diplomatic window would reveal most of the other information. We aim to change a lot of that.

We want alien civilizations to feel more mysterious and unknown. We want the experience of learning more about alien empires to be an equally important and fun aspect of exploration.

Fog of War
As we briefly showed last week, we are making some changes to fog of war, and what type of information you will be getting about other empires.

You will no longer see all of the systems and borders occupied by the empire you have recently contacted, but it will now instead be tied to how much Intel you have. This really makes alien empires feel way more mysterious, which is something that we really like.

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The information on the empire to the galactic south-east is very limited. We can see their homeworld and the borders explored by our science ship.

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The galaxy as seen from the yellow empire in the top-right. There are a bunch of empires that we know very little about, and there are still more that are undiscovered.

Intel
Like mentioned above, our primary objective is to make alien empires feel more mysterious and unknown. We wanted to hide information and allow you to learn more about other empires as you gain more Intel on them. Our goal is to make the Intel game a part of the exploration aspect of Stellaris.

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An alien empire recently established communications with us. Friends..?

Let’s take a look at how we have designed the Intel game to work.

First off there is Intel, which is a value between 0 and 100. You have a current Intel value, and you have a “target” Intel value, up to which it can grow. You usually have an Intel floor, which is the lowest value it can be, depending on a couple of factors such as:
  • Diplomatic Pacts (Research Agreements, Commercial Pacts etc.)
  • Trust
  • REDACTED (doesn’t look like anything to you)

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Depending on things like diplomatic pacts, trust or other things, your Intel will grow over time.

Intel Categories
Information is split between different Intel Categories, such as Government, Military, Diplomatic, Economic, Technology. Categories can have different Intel Levels as well, ranging from None to Full. The Intel categories and their levels are what determines what information you have access to. Here are some examples:
  • Low Government Intel (Intel: 10) would reveal basic things like empire name, authority, ethics, capital location.
  • Low Military Intel (Intel: 40) would reveal starbases and relative military power.
  • Medium Government Intel (Intel: 40) would reveal civics and origin.
  • Medium Diplomacy Intel (Intel: 50) would reveal the opinion breakdown and let us see which diplomatic pacts they have with other empires.
The Intel you have on another empire heavily influences the Intel Categories, but it is not the only driving factor. It is also possible to have a higher Intel level in a certain category than what you would normally get from your level of Intel. One such example is Intel Reports, and we’ll talk about some other examples in future dev diaries.

Intel Reports
Intel Reports allow you to gain more information in a certain category, on a timed basis. It would be, for example, possible to gain an Intel Report which lasts for 720 days and gives you a High level of Military Intel, whereas otherwise High Military Intel might require you to have 80 Intel on the empire.

Stale Intel
It is said that knowledge is power, and intel is a form of knowledge. Power usually fades, and so does Intel. It is possible to lose access to information that was previously accessible. In some cases, this information will now be displayed as stale.

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Intel, now in the scent of working from home for months.

The last information you had about the empire was that they were far weaker than you on many accounts, but perhaps they have strengthened their fleets by now? Stale Intel can also mean that you may no longer see if the borders for an empire change or not.

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That's it for this week! Hopefully you've gained some Intel into how the game is changing for the upcoming expansion :)
 
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I wish that the empires names were normalized based off the borders you can actually see. In the screenshots, I can tell that the Praku Democratic States is a rather large empire, despite only being able to see one system. Knowing that the name is centered, I can also get a rough idea of the borders.

It would be nice if the name was smaller if you didn't have a lot of intel about them, and if it was centered based on what you know about their borders. It would do a lot to keep you guessing about how big they truly are. I could see some... erm, "fun" to be had when you think you're invading basically an OPM and then you find out they're actually twice your size and strength.

Completely unrelated sidenote, it'd also be nice if you found the nearest colonized system, not the empire's homeworld. In Halo, humanity took a lot of steps to avoid giving the location of Earth because they knew it would just get crushed by the Covenant. It'd be cool if Stellaris handled things in a similar way, where there's some strategic merit in hiding your homeworld (and thus hiding most of your industrial base).
 
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It's strange to see a post with so many votes where I can't even figure out what point you're making, so I feel compelled to ask: what in God's name point are you making?

'Cos on the face of it I would think that discovering that the aliens use T1 weaponry is very useful information, in the "It's free real estate" sense.

But it's possible you're making some sort of commentary on (a personal bugbear of mine) how the AI's universal use of mixed-munition fleets (to which there is no counter-strategy other than build moar ship) means that all intel is useless. Because currently in Stellaris, every enemy empire gets dealt with the same way: outproduce the enemy with generic fleets. An intel mechanic is completely pointless because it will never cause you to change your strategy, so why even bother investing in intel points?

Since you didn't make this point explicitly, I will: Paradox, there is no point in making an intel mechanic unless you simultaneously change up the AI's fleet loadout spec. Intel that doesn't help you win wars is kinda pointless, in order to win wars you need to win battles, and with the way combat works currently, intel can't help you win battles because AI ship loadouts are too generic to intelligently counter.

I can't truly agree with the statement that AI ship load outs are too generic for countering, at least on any universal level. For example, Determined Exterminators heavily favor the use of missile/torpedo weapons, and against them I've had campaigns where drastically upping the amount of point defense in my fleets has made the difference between victory and defeat.
 
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Hmm seems as if the majority of all posters here are in favor of hiding the homeworld.

I'd prefer to have a slider or at least under the policies tab an option how open my society will be.

By the way with espionage now a thing how about space tourism? I'd love to see Jane Blorg visiting the main casino of Pleasure 4 asking for blood, human, shaken not stirred.
 
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While I like espionage and all that, I think that it would kinda require a rework of the victory system. After all, victory points would be earned by a lot of things that just won't be visible anymore, like military or economic power, so you'd either have to:

1. make it so that players will have no idea whether they will win or not on the victory year, which would make victory just feel extremely arbitrary, especially between empires of similar power.

2. still allow people to still see empire scores, which would be the most scummy way of gaining intel on another empire.
 
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While I like espionage and all that, I think that it would kinda require a rework of the victory system. After all, victory points would be earned by a lot of things that just won't be visible anymore, like military or economic power, so you'd either have to:

1. make it so that players will have no idea whether they will win or not on the victory year, which would make victory just feel extremely arbitrary, especially between empires of similar power.

2. still allow people to still see empire scores, which would be the most scummy way of gaining intel on another empire.

I mean, by the time you are hitting endgame year you'd hopefully have fairly significant intel on the other empires. It'd also be quite possible to have positions listed but no actual point breakdown, so that way you know who you are competing with but not how close you are to them.

Another issue is the trade system, as you can use it to figure out an empires current stockpiles/income (you can't ask for more than they currently have). Hopefully that gets a slight overhaul/tweak to fix it.
 
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Migration Treaties, Commercial Pacts and Research Agreements all imply the existence of space tourism.
Which one of
  1. Moving to another empire permanently
  2. Being allowed to deliver your Space Opium to another empire
  3. Being allowed to read the scientific papers of another empire
do you think implies the ability to take a holiday in another empire?
 
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Will enigmatic engineering interact with intel levels somehow beyond granting you extended sensor range? Or will it still only let you see further and make your ships not leave debris when destroyed?
 
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I mean, by the time you are hitting endgame year you'd hopefully have fairly significant intel on the other empires. It'd also be quite possible to have positions listed but no actual point breakdown, so that way you know who you are competing with but not how close you are to them.

Another issue is the trade system, as you can use it to figure out an empires current stockpiles/income (you can't ask for more than they currently have). Hopefully that gets a slight overhaul/tweak to fix it.
I don't think just having positions listed would really solve it, since people could still use it as a scummy way of finding out more information. For example, if I knew an empire's economy and technology were equivalent to mine, but did not have intel on their military, I could figure out roughly how good their military is by looking at their rank compared to mine.

I think the trade problem could be fixed by hiding the exact trade approval values, and instead showing a kind of three-sectored approval bar, where it will either be shown as "bad", "agrees", or "favors", where "bad" means they won't accept", "agrees" means they will, and "favors" means they'll happliy accept and you will get an opinion boost from them.
 
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Migration Treaties, Commercial Pacts and Research Agreements all imply the existence of space tourism.
You are right of course. But I was thinking of tradevalue. I'd like to see pleasure 5 generating a bigger value not only cause my people get their amenities from there but also hard cash due to tourists visiting from other empires.
But I get what you are saying. too much and it will lag or result in too muchmicromanagement
 
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Which one of
  1. Moving to another empire permanently
  2. Being allowed to deliver your Space Opium to another empire
  3. Being allowed to read the scientific papers of another empire
do you think implies the ability to take a holiday in another empire?

Even though I agree with you.
Your list is a too good opportunity to miss for jokes.

Point 2) Drugrunners need to pose as tourists :)

Point 3) The biannual science conference on the mating pattern of tassargoids will be hosted by the Commonwealth of Man on Pleasure 6 :)
 
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Which one of
  1. Moving to another empire permanently
  2. Being allowed to deliver your Space Opium to another empire
  3. Being allowed to read the scientific papers of another empire
do you think implies the ability to take a holiday in another empire?
All of them.

Someone who moved to another Empire permanently should have the ability to travel to their original home to visit friends and family, and friends and family should have the ability to travel to see them.

Commercial and scientific travel (e.g. for conferences) is also usually mixed with tourism.
 
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Someone who moved to another Empire permanently should have the ability to travel to their original home to visit friends and family, and friends and family should have the ability to travel to see them.
"Should"?
According to whose 3 ethics points?
Commercial and scientific travel (e.g. for conferences) is also usually mixed with tourism.
Making an "argument from usuality" based on 21st century single-planetary travel is not, I think, good grounds for generalisation to 23rd century interplanetary travel.
 
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I think the trade problem could be fixed by hiding the exact trade approval values, and instead showing a kind of three-sectored approval bar, where it will either be shown as "bad", "agrees", or "favors", where "bad" means they won't accept", "agrees" means they will, and "favors" means they'll happliy accept and you will get an opinion boost from them.
Couldn't you still offer them everything you own in exchange for one specific resource (at a time), and see when they go from 'agrees' to 'bad'?
(or maybe even 'favors' to 'bad', making it even more obvious.)
 
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This looks great! Limited intel, more mystery, I like it!

This could be combined with automated construction ships (tech gated like automated exploration perhaps?) which would automatically attempt to build starbases in systems you have surveyed and claimed, potentially initiating the described mechanic.

You'd have to be very cautious about automated construction ships staking claims to space without your oversight, or tweak how it works. I, for one, would hate suddenly losing 75 Influence I needed for an Edict because some dumb automated constructor plopped down in a random border system and made a claim without asking me.
 
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I think isolationist and inward perfection empires would be the opposite. Trying to have perfect information of the outside xeno threat without giving any information away.

This is a real problem. Without changes you coud just circumvent this new system. Making it somewhat pointless.

Except against synths and robots. What mind is there to read in computers?
Rock, paper, scissors time.
 
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4. Stale Intel doesn't show how old it is (minor quibble, but there's a big difference between 1 month stale and 10 years stale).

Good point. I think it should be that if you hover your mouse over the "Stale Intel" text it pops up something last "Last Updated months ago" or "Last Updated years ago" or "Last Updated decades ago."
 
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"Should"?
According to whose 3 ethics points?
Has there been a polity in history which has granted permanent residence to foreigners more readily than temporary visitation rights?

Oscot said:
Making an "argument from usuality" based on 21st century single-planetary travel is not, I think, good grounds for generalisation to 23rd century interplanetary travel.
Has there been a polity in history which has forbidden legal commercial or scientific travellers from visiting tourist attractions or attending local entertainments? Apart from bona fide quarantine measures, that is.
 
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