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Stellaris Dev Diary #192 : Perfectly Balanced, As All Things Should Be...

Hello!

This week we’re going to look at some more changes we're planning, as well as a review of how some of the experiments mentioned in the last few dev diaries have evolved.

Thank you for the massive amount of feedback in those threads.

Reduction in Pops

Due to the effects on performance and a desire to reduce the micromanagement burden in the mid to late game, some of the things we’ve been deeply looking into are different ways of dramatically reducing the number of pops in the galaxy.

These experiments have generally revolved around modifying the growth (or assembly required) for pops as an empire’s population grows, with some variants trying a logistic pop growth (where growth follows an S-shaped curve as planets develop, based on a carrying capacity of a planet). These experiments have reduced the end date pop count to somewhere around one half of the old numbers with the expected performance improvements.

Organic pops will follow a curve where they begin at standard population growth, increase growth as the approach a midpoint between population and the planetary carrying capacity, then slow down to zero as they reach the top of the curve. Pop Assembly, on the other hand, is generally slow but consistent. The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does.

A significant reduction in pops has a cascade of major implications for the overall economy, production, and other gameplay effects. As such, these also require a pass on buildings, technologies, and even seemingly minor ripple effects like what the value should be for the trade value generated by pops.

There will be a lot of patch notes.

Most buildings have been standardized to now give 2 jobs per tier rather than the old 2/5/8 progression.

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Just one example of many.

We’ve also changed a few buildings to have new or additional features, such as the Spawning Pool and Clone Vats, which have had their Pop Growth modifiers replaced with the new Organic Pop Assembly. This fills the same slot on the planet as Robotic Pop Assembly, so generally you’ll want to pick one or the other. (Clone Vats also picked up a food upkeep cost to represent simple materials to break down.)

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Pops is Soylent Green!

A few other jobs got minor perks added to them, like the Medical Workers from Gene Clinics making it a little easier to live on less hospitable worlds.

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Doesn't normally produce exotic gas, this one happens to be a lithoid.

And a few new techs have been added to help compensate for lost productivity. One tech line increases both the job production of a planet as well as job upkeep - those fewer pops are still capable of producing the work of more on a developed planet.

Ring Worlds

As part of the balance pass, Ring Worlds have been bumped up to 10 segments from 5, and the jobs per segment have been adjusted.

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The Shattered Ring origin now possesses a warning that it may be a Challenging Origin for Lithoids due to a scarcity of minerals, and now also applies the Ring World Habitability Preference to your pops. We’re considering adding a similar warning for Hives selecting the origin, since the habitability preference change puts a serious crimp in their expansion.

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Put a ring on it?

Their starting blockers have also been adjusted to give a more balanced spread of jobs.

Ecumenopoleis

Like the Ring Worlds, these start with all building slots open. As mentioned before, you can now use the Arcology Project decision on a planet that has a mix of City and Industrial Districts.

Note: Empire has all technologies but no traditions active.
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The ecumenopolis has a unique distinction of being able to have both the Factory and Foundry building lines on the same planet.

Habitats

The changes to Habitat modules are much smaller in scope, but here’s the list of their districts.

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Void Dwellers have gotten a bit of attention as well with some tradition swaps for those that had minimal or no beneficial effects for them.

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Replacing Public Works Division:
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And for Void Dwellers with the Adaptability tree:
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Interstellar Franchising and Imperious Architecture now also function for Habitats.

Updates to Dev Diary 190

Some of these updates may not be new to people following the forum threads, but it's easy to miss things so I figured we should go over them.

Many people requested the ability to fully specialize their foundry and factory worlds. We've modified the Forge and Industrial World planet designations to shift one pop on each Industrial District to the appropriate job if possible.

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We've also upgraded the Food Processing Center, Mineral Purification Hub, and Energy Nexus to provide an extra job to each of their associated resource production districts. (The Food Processing Center will also improve Hydroponics Farms.)

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One of the suggestions made in the thread was to add a civic that increases unlocked Building Slots. Sounded like a great addition to Functional Architecture.

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Functionality increased!

Updates to Dev Diary 191

We’ve explored some additional options regarding the resettlement system we outlined in Dev Diary 191, and after trying a few things, and have settled on some extensive modifications to the system.

All planets with free sapient unemployed pops that are not locked down by migration controls will have a small chance every month of moving one to another planet within their empire that has jobs that they are willing and able to work, housing, and habitability of 40% or higher. This chance is increased if there are multiple unemployed pops that meet the criteria.

The system now prefers to move higher strata pops first, so rulers and specialists will move before workers, and this system also functions for gestalt empires. It will not relocate non-sapient robots or slaves. It will generally prefer to move pops to the planets with the most free jobs.

After some experimentation we’ve chosen to keep the Transit Hubs as Starbase Buildings that provide a system wide buff to the chance of auto-resettlement occurring. (Rather than being essential to have it occur in the first place.)

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Doubles the chance the pops choose to resettle themselves.

Greater Than Ourselves has been rewritten to also massively increase this chance when the edict is active, with a +200% bonus.

We initially had these pops considering destinations available through Migration Pacts as well, but decided against keeping that since it introduced a new Migration Controls micromanagement element that we didn’t find desirable.

We’ve also done a minor update to the Authority bonuses that seemed a little bit weak.

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Democracies now have a bonus encouraging their pops to seek their dreams, and Dictatorships have a bit of an easier time holding things together when they’re a bit overstretched.

Closing Thoughts

One other little quality of life improvement that was just added is this filter on the colonization interface.

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That’s probably long enough for today. We’re looking forward to your feedback on these as well.

Next week w̷e̵'̸l̸l̴ ̴b̸e̴t̵̮̄ǎ̸͈l̷̠̈k̴͔͂i̴̞͒n̷̪͊g̸̳͗ ̸͚̎a̵͉̐b̵̤̿ȯ̴̲ṵ̵̀t̸͇͂ ҈҂▒©╛⅜

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As part of the balance pass, Ring Worlds have been bumped up to 10 segments from 5, and the jobs per segment have been adjusted.
Should the industrial district have its cost and upkeep split between motes and crystals? With an adjustment based on the designation?

Also, has the trade value per clerk been changed, or is there a trait or something being applied?
 
Like the Ring Worlds, these start with all building slots open. As mentioned before, you can now use the Arcology Project decision on a planet that has a mix of City and Industrial Districts.
In what type of districts will industrial ones "evolve" after turning into ecumenopolis? Forge or factory ones?
We've also upgraded the Food Processing Center, Mineral Purification Hub, and Energy Nexus to provide an extra job to each of their associated resource production districts. (The Food Processing Center will also improve Hydroponics Farms.)
Does it mean that Energy Nexus in machine empire and synth ascended empire will provide 4 additional energy districts AND +1 job per energy district including those added?
 
I'm not sure that the ring world habitability is worth implementing as is? It'd not affect robots in any way, it'd mostly just affect organic pops, which speaks more to limiting options and doesn't *really* balance anything (and as someone mentioned prior, the origins aren't supposed to be balanced).
 
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Wow, thank you. I was upset after the last update diary. It was really bad, especially for purifier type playthroughs, that don't get access to "greater than ourselves" at all, but need it most, especially now that manual resettlement will cost influence (there's never enough influence already). At least they have SOMETHING now, though.

How small is the chance of pops moving on their own, really? I don't think I read that post right. It says "10% currently, but the overall chance is multiplied by the number of unemployed pops." and "...if you have two unemployed pops on a planet, double these numbers." Currently I have a habitat with 23 unemployment, does that mean there will be a 230% chance for a pop to move? Sounds pretty strong, if so.

Also, it would be great if we could move buildings between slots, as buildings get ruined when too many pops leave (or maybe just don't auto-ruin buildings!?), and it really matters which one goes where (It would also be nice to be able to re-order other things in the UI, like fleets for example). Or at least be able to repair/demolish an upgraded building that has been ruined. It really seems like a bug/oversight that you can destroy a non-upgraded ruined building, but not an upgraded ruined building.
 
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Also, it would be great if we could move buildings between slots, as buildings get ruined when too many pops leave (or maybe just don't auto-ruin buildings!?), and it really matters which one goes where (It would also be nice to be able to re-order other things in the UI, like fleets for example). Or at least be able to repair/demolish an upgraded building that has been ruined. It really seems like a bug/oversight that you can destroy a non-upgraded ruined building, but not an upgraded ruined building.
In an earlier DD they discussed that building slots are now unlocked by capital buildings, city districts and a few other things. Notable is that pops will no longer unlock slots, so this fixes the buildings getting ruined when pops leave.
 
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Man, this is one of the best DD diaries in a long, long time. A massive rebalance patch was long overdue in many areas (ascensions, economy, civics, government authorities, etc), growth, and immigration rework were pressing issues, as well as late-game lag. Killing these 3 birds in one single stone is awesome news!

I agree, I'm looking forward to these changes. Particularly anything that reduces late game micromanagement.

It's been asked a number of times already but I'll ask as well, any thoughts on how to handle emigration/immigration? Currently you can intentionally force pop growth to go from one planet to another planet by using the emigration push and immigration pull modifiers. How would this work in the new system? Would you need to scrap it?
 
Interestingly this might be closer to real life than you're imagining. In developed countries population growth is lower than developing and even in developed countries we see population growth tail off in more developed regions, as well as even more granularly than that where it tails off in wealthier families compared to poorer ones. Also, the World Health Organisation doesn't predict an ever increasing global population, but instead that as the world develops each countries population will stabilise and global population reaching around 10 billion and then growth rates levelling off. So the S curve is both mapping to what we see in reality, as well as what the bigger organisations whose job it is to try and predict real world populations over the next century or two are using.
 
So any update on the pop growth to change the per planet carry capacity and pop growth to an empire wide carry capacity and pop growth? It would finally put an end to need to settle any planet regardless of habitability asap and to constantly spam habitats just for more pop growth.
Keeping per planet pop growth, but making it S-shaped will just make the current system worse. Instead of just spamming colonies you now also need to constantly resettle to keep as many planets in the middle of the S as possible. You probably also need to battle with the auto-pop-migration system to keep it that way. Instead of solving existing problems they get amplified. An empire wide system would finally put an end to this.
 
I'm still sad about Slaves and robots not moving with auto-resettlement

It doesn't solve the micro resettlement problem with Authoritarian empire, in particular with Slaver Guilds since Unemployed pops become slave and then can't move.

There should at least exist a Civic or an Edict which allow them to resettle, Slaver guild is kinda in the theme for example, you can imagine that those Guilds move slaves around to more profit. But it would makes this Civic even stronger and make playing Non-Slaver Guild Auth Empire very pointless I think
 
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Me and Friends have been waiting months for this sort of update. Game just gets to laggy end game to play together.. been hoping and waiting for this to help. Over Two months since this post, what's the update on the update?
 
I'm still sad about Slaves and robots not moving with auto-resettlement

It doesn't solve the micro resettlement problem with Authoritarian empire, in particular with Slaver Guilds since Unemployed pops become slave and then can't move.

There should at least exist a Civic or an Edict which allow them to resettle, Slaver guild is kinda in the theme for example, you can imagine that those Guilds move slaves around to more profit. But it would makes this Civic even stronger and make playing Non-Slaver Guild Auth Empire very pointless I think
Or handle this as a Species Right, which the slaver ought get a handle on. Maybe gate it behind a civic, policy, or edict.

I brought this up with a post requesting that Rogue Servitors be able to turn off population growth of their bio trophies but not their robots.

It seems that there's a lot of nation types that would have some use for more granular control over who gets to migrate.
If I've gene-engineered just one or a few habitats, I might be perfectly happy letting the fellows leave the habitat, but people coming in are a problem, for another example.

It seems to me that a fairly granular control of a planet's population ought exist on the Population Tab of the planet view, where you can stop or encourage growth of specific species, and similarly control their migration.
 
anyone having problems with the new pop growth when playing as a purging faction. i captured a few world during a war and i lost my game because of it.it seems you need to destroy all buildings after capturing a planet?. because if you don't all your new pops wil start filling the higher jobs and you end up with destroying your game because you aint getting basic resources anymore because all are used for the higher jobs. and with 1 pop per 12 years you can't wait till they start producing workers.it would be great if you could favorite a type of workers instead of job specific so it would create more workers or a salting the earth option?
 
You don't upgrade labs, energy grids, mineral purification centers, food processing , temples, holo-theatres, gene clinics, administration offices, or stongholds?
efficient pop growth requires you to have much more housing than jobs

and the empire-wide penalty makes efficiency compulsory

planets outside the first one or two are going to routinely be half empty and not need building upgrades