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Well I mean, maybe, I just hope it's not a huge increase in cost, like a linear one, because it would be very annoying having your 1000th pop costing 10 times more than your 100th one.I asked this a couple of times but didn't get an answer. I think it's "because it's a good mechanic to stop there being too many pops". Which, ok, fair enough.
That's good and correct. Who told you that having more planets is not an advantage? And why do you expect 1 planet to work like 10?The problem is that as things stand it won't work, because since the cost is dependent on total amount of empire pops, a 10X10 planet empire and a 100x1 planet empire will have the same growth cost, but the 10 planet one will have an overall empire growth of 10x the one planet empire.
If you can't make pop growth empire dependent, than making it directly proportional to the amount of pops present would at least nullify the distinction between the two; So for example one pop = 1 growth/month and 100 pops = 100 growth/month (before modifiers).
This creates other problems of course but it is the only way to keep tall and wide evenly balanced while keeping planet based growth.
it feels gamey and not realistic. Have the local effect and feel the pressure from theglobal pop count.If I can suggest one change it would be to base that S curve on the total carrying capacity of your entire empire instead of a single planet.
And then divide the growth coming from that over each planet proportionally to the unfilled carrying capacity of each planet.
That would solve a lot of problems regarding gamey systems where people keep partially filled planets around just to be on the sweet spot of that S curve and then migrate/resettle pops from that planet to other planets.
It would also help significantly in the wide vs tall contrast as new colonies would no longer be adding entirely new sources of growth but simply increase the total carrying capacity. This would open the door for tall mechanics that increase carrying capacity without expanding ( like mastery of nature ). A tall empire that's invested significantly in a few planets through ecumenopolis, mastery of nature, a ringworld etc. would be able to achieve the same total carrying capacity and thus growth as a very wide empire that has dozens of colonized systems.
Do you realise how hard it is to have a relatioship as a psionic being? Oh the constant mind reading, oh the manipulation... Hence the low birth rates!!! perfectly balanced like all things should be!!!So psionic ascension has the fewest pops and the weakest pops but thats ok because they are good at espionage. Yeah just like they've been fine for the past 2 years. It is nice to be able to clearly see how superior your opponent is compared to you. I really struggle to find a strength for psi ascension that can match massive early pop growth modifiers combined with quite weak pop bonuses. And way too much of psi strength is tied in lengthy rng shroud events.
Also we are now placing an even greater amount of pop productivity in technologies where spiritualists are weak and materialists are strong. Is there any plan to do something to make unity useful and tech less massively overpowered
And that's a perfectly valid new way to play. Remember that you are sacrificing a full sector for this!"The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does."
I think this is gonna make keeping some low pop vassals/ despoiler prey around somewhat worthwhile.
Also can you please make it so that Agrarian Idyll can repair relics worlds in ecumenopolis, without having to shuffle civics?
It will be exciting! A new ERA!I can see so many ways for this to go wrong.
I hope you don't have your testers underpaid paradox, this is going to be interessing.
Can you imagine that the case might be that we might shut up and stop nagging??? Nahhh we'll find new ways and reasons to be toxic and protest!!I don't believe this. You're doing everything that's good. Like what are you thinking!?
That is like introducing a new system to curb growth and then another one on top, that undoes what you wanted originally!!Suggestion: As planets reach carrying capacity for pops and their local growth rate slows down, they could add a small multiplicative modifier to immigration for other planets. That would represent populations leaving the overcrowded planet for less populous worlds where there's less competition.
Better than I could imagine it! Capacity upgrade on building levels! You Rock! The hype for building Tall IS REAL!!!
in my opinion habitats over planets don't need the agriculture districts on it, but if you could build an agriculture world with a habitat over it like pops living on the habitat and working on the agriculture districts of the planet without that malus your pops get if they live on a planet while you have the voiddweller trait... well but at least you also could use farm-bots or slaves to work on that agriculture planets, should be an option for thrall-worlds to be pure agricultural... (at least i think voiddweller-xenophobes/authoritairs are a strong combination)Have you guys considered giving agriculture districts to habitats around habitable worlds? Given how they extract their other resources through specific planetary deposits, I feel like that would fit. But could there be a reaon this isn't implemented?
The speed of pop growth per generator gets reduced or more accurately cost of a new pop increases. So double the number of generators.The speed of growth gets reduces the more pops an empire has because the "work" that needs to be done for 1 pop gets increased. I didn't catch anything implying that this growth speed reduction was a local thing.
Can you maybe split the tech between organic and robot pops and remove the inherent synth production bonus?
With a surplus of food, the people can afford to have kids without the fear of them starving to death. This together with better healthcare and living standards is why populations explode in industrialized societies. Massive excess does put a brake on this at a certain level. Food surplus will always be the main defining factor for population increase.This is not the case. There have been studies about utopian conditions where a species of rats get everything they could ever hope for. With these colonies they tend to slowly grow, then as numbers increase grow rapidly, and finally have a decreased growth, disturbingly into extinction.
This wasn't due to a lack of food, as they got supplied more then they needed.
When I first proposed logistic growth with link to Veritasium on this forum, for some reason there was thinking in the community (and elsewhere it seems) that assembling pops is any different to pops being born. The more robots you have, the more robots you need to manufacture to replenish those that were damaged, malfunctioned, or were destroyed in accidents, am I wrong? Does it not match 1:1 organic creatures being sick, getting old, or dying due to accidents?Organic pops will follow a curve where they begin at standard population growth, increase growth as the approach a midpoint between population and the planetary carrying capacity, then slow down to zero as they reach the top of the curve. Pop Assembly, on the other hand, is generally slow but consistent. The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does.
So why is the developed world experiencing a stabilization / shortfall in population count? It's not from lack of food. It's from the fact that children are expensive both in cost and in effect on lifestyle. The value of the asset is lower than its cost and improvements in accidental construction limit the number of unexpected creations.With a surplus of food, the people can afford to have kids without the fear of them starving to death. This together with better healthcare and living standards is why populations explode in industrialized societies. Massive excess does put a brake on this at a certain level. Food surplus will always be the main defining factor for population increase.
In the real world, people frequently have jobs that don't really suit their aptitudes, because it turns out the labour market is full of barriers, perverse incentives, managers whose brains are being choked by their neckties, etc.If they always picked favourite job as they would in real-world because either state or economy would incentivise them to do so.
What does GTO mean again? I think I missed itThey're fairly similar. For Industrial things, change all the consumer goods jobs into alloy jobs. If it's a tier 1 resource generating job, hives get more of them.
10% currently, but the overall chance is multiplied by the number of unemployed pops.
At these numbers, here's the quick chart of "what is the chance that a single unemployed pop will have migrated within x months?"
MONTH 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Base Empire 10.00% 19.00% 27.10% 34.39% 40.95% 46.86% 52.17% 56.95% 61.26% 65.13% 68.62% 71.76% Base Empire + Hub 20.00% 36.00% 48.80% 59.04% 67.23% 73.79% 79.03% 83.22% 86.58% 89.26% 91.41% 93.13% Base Empire + GTO 30.00% 51.00% 65.70% 75.99% 83.19% 88.24% 91.76% 94.24% 95.96% 97.18% 98.02% 98.62% Base Empire + Hub + GTO 40.00% 64.00% 78.40% 87.04% 92.22% 95.33% 97.20% 98.32% 98.99% 99.40% 99.64% 99.78% Democracy 15.00% 27.75% 38.59% 47.80% 55.63% 62.29% 67.94% 72.75% 76.84% 80.31% 83.27% 85.78% Democracy + Hub 25.00% 43.75% 57.81% 68.36% 76.27% 82.20% 86.65% 89.99% 92.49% 94.37% 95.78% 96.83% Democracy + GTO 35.00% 57.75% 72.54% 82.15% 88.40% 92.46% 95.10% 96.81% 97.93% 98.65% 99.12% 99.43% Democracy + Hub + GTO 45.00% 69.75% 83.36% 90.85% 94.97% 97.23% 98.48% 99.16% 99.54% 99.75% 99.86% 99.92%
This also affects every planet now, and as noted above, if you have two unemployed pops on a planet, double these numbers.
This is one of the things that is still in balancing, but currently it's total housing but we include a bonus for undeveloped districts. People living off the land and such. Some planets, like Gaia worlds, get more carrying capacity for their undeveloped districts.
This may change to be a simpler formula largely based on planet size, since there are a couple of quirks I'm not totally happy with right now.
An Ecumenopolis still has an extremely high carrying capacity so is excellent for population growth, and is also quite effective at producing both jobs and housing from a single district type. It's still borderline OP, don't worry.
Pop Assembly doesn't follow the logistic curve, it's (generally) slower but constant.
That would actually make more sense and perhaps even provide a more interesting tradeoff.you want it to be fixed on your tech level and number of non-basic jobs? i'm ok with that.
That is the definition of a lazy mechanic: one that cannot be explained within the game's lore/logic and is so gamey that the optimal play is to grant your own planets independence so they grow faster and then reconquer/integrate them.I disagree. I feel like it invites a change in game play that is most welcome. Instead of rushing pops you now have to "lengthen the curve" by fighting the the growing number needed for a pop with growth boons in tech.
With colonies being able to split off and merged again after a little while, this severely increases the value of the Shared Destiny perk. It actually might become viable as a strategy.
It also increases the value of Nihilistic Aquisition or Barbaric Despoilers because you can keep alive enemy empires and harvest their pops every 10 years. Their decreased pop size will result in faster growth.
I'm all for game changes that bring out niches as actually viable options.
On that front actually, it should be almost a requirement to resettle pops from homeworld. It's not that we will start colonizing Mars by sending Adam and Eve and letting them do their thing.In our experiments we've modified the curve somewhat so new colonies aren't incredibly slow to grow.