Stellaris Dev Diary #192 : Perfectly Balanced, As All Things Should Be...

Stellaris Dev Diary #192 : Perfectly Balanced, As All Things Should Be...

  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Liggi

Captain
75 Badges
Mar 28, 2017
349
1.770
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
I agree I don't really quite understand
I asked this a couple of times but didn't get an answer. I think it's "because it's a good mechanic to stop there being too many pops". Which, ok, fair enough.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Ffc

Galactic Emperor
55 Badges
Jan 27, 2016
200
316
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
I asked this a couple of times but didn't get an answer. I think it's "because it's a good mechanic to stop there being too many pops". Which, ok, fair enough.
Well I mean, maybe, I just hope it's not a huge increase in cost, like a linear one, because it would be very annoying having your 1000th pop costing 10 times more than your 100th one.

Maybe something like a log base 10
 
Last edited:
  • 3
Reactions:

GnoSIS

Captain
18 Badges
Jan 27, 2009
365
505
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
The problem is that as things stand it won't work, because since the cost is dependent on total amount of empire pops, a 10X10 planet empire and a 100x1 planet empire will have the same growth cost, but the 10 planet one will have an overall empire growth of 10x the one planet empire.

If you can't make pop growth empire dependent, than making it directly proportional to the amount of pops present would at least nullify the distinction between the two; So for example one pop = 1 growth/month and 100 pops = 100 growth/month (before modifiers).
This creates other problems of course but it is the only way to keep tall and wide evenly balanced while keeping planet based growth.
That's good and correct. Who told you that having more planets is not an advantage? And why do you expect 1 planet to work like 10?

If I can suggest one change it would be to base that S curve on the total carrying capacity of your entire empire instead of a single planet.

And then divide the growth coming from that over each planet proportionally to the unfilled carrying capacity of each planet.

That would solve a lot of problems regarding gamey systems where people keep partially filled planets around just to be on the sweet spot of that S curve and then migrate/resettle pops from that planet to other planets.

It would also help significantly in the wide vs tall contrast as new colonies would no longer be adding entirely new sources of growth but simply increase the total carrying capacity. This would open the door for tall mechanics that increase carrying capacity without expanding ( like mastery of nature ). A tall empire that's invested significantly in a few planets through ecumenopolis, mastery of nature, a ringworld etc. would be able to achieve the same total carrying capacity and thus growth as a very wide empire that has dozens of colonized systems.
it feels gamey and not realistic. Have the local effect and feel the pressure from theglobal pop count.

So psionic ascension has the fewest pops and the weakest pops but thats ok because they are good at espionage. Yeah just like they've been fine for the past 2 years. It is nice to be able to clearly see how superior your opponent is compared to you. I really struggle to find a strength for psi ascension that can match massive early pop growth modifiers combined with quite weak pop bonuses. And way too much of psi strength is tied in lengthy rng shroud events.

Also we are now placing an even greater amount of pop productivity in technologies where spiritualists are weak and materialists are strong. Is there any plan to do something to make unity useful and tech less massively overpowered
Do you realise how hard it is to have a relatioship as a psionic being? Oh the constant mind reading, oh the manipulation... Hence the low birth rates!!! perfectly balanced like all things should be!!!

"The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does."

I think this is gonna make keeping some low pop vassals/ despoiler prey around somewhat worthwhile.

Also can you please make it so that Agrarian Idyll can repair relics worlds in ecumenopolis, without having to shuffle civics?
And that's a perfectly valid new way to play. Remember that you are sacrificing a full sector for this!

I can see so many ways for this to go wrong.
I hope you don't have your testers underpaid paradox, this is going to be interessing.
It will be exciting! A new ERA!

I don't believe this. You're doing everything that's good. Like what are you thinking!?
Can you imagine that the case might be that we might shut up and stop nagging??? Nahhh we'll find new ways and reasons to be toxic and protest!! :D:D:D

Suggestion: As planets reach carrying capacity for pops and their local growth rate slows down, they could add a small multiplicative modifier to immigration for other planets. That would represent populations leaving the overcrowded planet for less populous worlds where there's less competition.
That is like introducing a new system to curb growth and then another one on top, that undoes what you wanted originally!!

The line of techs is currently:
View attachment 654316

The higher bonuses are tied to higher tiers of capital buildings, so resource gathering backwaters are less likely to reach maximized production levels than your heavily populated core worlds.
Better than I could imagine it! Capacity upgrade on building levels! You Rock! The hype for building Tall IS REAL!!!:p:p:p
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Szfaner

Recruit
14 Badges
Aug 27, 2017
2
0
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I think that influence cost for moving your pops is a good choice. Generally you don’t want to just move to whatever city the government tells you to go. You are usually bond to the place you live by family and friends and resettlement is actually forcing you to leave it behind.

The other thing is that it helps to stop some suggested exploits to evenly distribute population between your planets or to build a lot of exes housing so that the pops grow faster even if you don’t need that much of them on this particular planet. Such approach should have a steep cost like at least suggested star-base slot use for transit hub.

The last problem can be also addressed with diminishing returns in carrying capacity increases as a function of available housing. For example if
Carrying_capacity(available_housing) = constant(planet based) + log(1+available_housing)
so that you get less carrying capacity per extra housing you build the more you already have. Log is just an example, there are many functions that work in this way.
 

Spaceception

Lt. General
9 Badges
Jan 25, 2018
1.381
648
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
Have you guys considered giving agriculture districts to habitats around habitable worlds? Given how they extract their other resources through specific planetary deposits, I feel like that would fit. But could there be a reaon this isn't implemented?
 
  • 8
  • 2Love
Reactions:

The_Draco

Sergeant
12 Badges
Feb 4, 2018
93
105
30
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
well, at least some thougts from me

1.) atm i see the automigration is a very nice thing, but it should also relocate slaves and robots if migration is allowed to them
1.1) that unemployed pops become slaves first i think is because of domestic-slavery where unemployed slaved get a special job ... that overall could get a bit of a rework...

2.) i like the pop-growth changes but i also think it should vary on some planet-modifiers wich atm just vary habitabillity...
2.1) well at least for realism, some planet-modifyers need some rework too, like storms and such could destroy buildings and kill pops and so on... but that also can be shown in lower pop-growth and more building costs and time (to make buildings and districts stormsafe for example) but thats another point.

3.) the pop-assembly part is nice too, its a good alternative to robots for bio-ascension empires, bringes them somhow to the same lvl as synth are
3.1) think spiritualists should get an other boost there, well, no pop-assembly, cause cloning is for most religions also a no way thing like sapient machines are, so instead spiritualists could get a bonus on job-production and bit less job-upceep in case that sipirituals work together somehow fanatical to make theyr souls ready for heaven... however something that compensates the "pop-growth malus" they have without robot- and pop-assembly xD

4.) also psionic ascension needs some kind of buff, but at least that could be something on espionage, cause if your spys can read the minds of theyr targets and assassines can kill with psychokinesis... well, that would make psionic ascension a strong thing in espionage and maybe make it competitive to synthetic and biologic ascension

well, that should be enough for the moment, hopefully we see more of these planned changes and the espionage part soon
 
Last edited:
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Escalist

Corporal
39 Badges
Jun 1, 2018
39
0
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
Really great news! Why you putting so fast after releasing last DLC... Now I can't play in current version of the game:(
But, if we got new districts - how about research district on arcology? Simulari to other - 10 housing, 6 researcher jobs, 2 gases upkeep...
 

The_Draco

Sergeant
12 Badges
Feb 4, 2018
93
105
30
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Have you guys considered giving agriculture districts to habitats around habitable worlds? Given how they extract their other resources through specific planetary deposits, I feel like that would fit. But could there be a reaon this isn't implemented?
in my opinion habitats over planets don't need the agriculture districts on it, but if you could build an agriculture world with a habitat over it like pops living on the habitat and working on the agriculture districts of the planet without that malus your pops get if they live on a planet while you have the voiddweller trait... well but at least you also could use farm-bots or slaves to work on that agriculture planets, should be an option for thrall-worlds to be pure agricultural... (at least i think voiddweller-xenophobes/authoritairs are a strong combination)
 

sillyrobot

Colonel
Jul 18, 2015
984
1.121
The speed of growth gets reduces the more pops an empire has because the "work" that needs to be done for 1 pop gets increased. I didn't catch anything implying that this growth speed reduction was a local thing.
The speed of pop growth per generator gets reduced or more accurately cost of a new pop increases. So double the number of generators.
 

Pale Blue

Major
39 Badges
Nov 2, 2017
690
1.088
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
The line of techs is currently:
View attachment 654316

The higher bonuses are tied to higher tiers of capital buildings, so resource gathering backwaters are less likely to reach maximized production levels than your heavily populated core worlds.
Can you maybe split the tech between organic and robot pops and remove the inherent synth production bonus?

Synths have 5% more production than organics for reasons. Making robots still better than organic pop assembly.
If you go synth ascnsion youget another 10% resource bonus for synth pops+ another 5% from ruler. Thats wihout even considering traits.

Organic is unable to rival that, Bio and Psi dont get 20% pop production for free.

I think these inherent robot production bonus should be removed and translated in the new pop production techs, which in reurn should have a organic pop production tech and an robot production tech.
 
Last edited:
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

Yaskaleh

First Lieutenant
57 Badges
Jul 12, 2014
211
59
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Dungeonland
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
This is not the case. There have been studies about utopian conditions where a species of rats get everything they could ever hope for. With these colonies they tend to slowly grow, then as numbers increase grow rapidly, and finally have a decreased growth, disturbingly into extinction.

This wasn't due to a lack of food, as they got supplied more then they needed.

With a surplus of food, the people can afford to have kids without the fear of them starving to death. This together with better healthcare and living standards is why populations explode in industrialized societies. Massive excess does put a brake on this at a certain level. Food surplus will always be the main defining factor for population increase.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

Drachenfels

Captain
46 Badges
Jul 16, 2011
459
119
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Organic pops will follow a curve where they begin at standard population growth, increase growth as the approach a midpoint between population and the planetary carrying capacity, then slow down to zero as they reach the top of the curve. Pop Assembly, on the other hand, is generally slow but consistent. The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does.
When I first proposed logistic growth with link to Veritasium on this forum, for some reason there was thinking in the community (and elsewhere it seems) that assembling pops is any different to pops being born. The more robots you have, the more robots you need to manufacture to replenish those that were damaged, malfunctioned, or were destroyed in accidents, am I wrong? Does it not match 1:1 organic creatures being sick, getting old, or dying due to accidents?

Back then the verdict of the majority was it's different and my proposed logistic growth will be a problem, in addition, ignored was fact that the game allows you to just shut down the factory that assembles pops.

But honestly pops should have a null to none effect on performance. If they always picked favourite job as they would in real-world because either state or economy would incentivise them to do so. There would be never constant reshuffle of jobs with some weights and gods know what. Pop would be a function of how many there is and how many roles can be filled.
 

sillyrobot

Colonel
Jul 18, 2015
984
1.121
With a surplus of food, the people can afford to have kids without the fear of them starving to death. This together with better healthcare and living standards is why populations explode in industrialized societies. Massive excess does put a brake on this at a certain level. Food surplus will always be the main defining factor for population increase.
So why is the developed world experiencing a stabilization / shortfall in population count? It's not from lack of food. It's from the fact that children are expensive both in cost and in effect on lifestyle. The value of the asset is lower than its cost and improvements in accidental construction limit the number of unexpected creations.
 
  • 5
Reactions:

grommile

Field Marshal
60 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
18.585
17.974
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
If they always picked favourite job as they would in real-world because either state or economy would incentivise them to do so.
In the real world, people frequently have jobs that don't really suit their aptitudes, because it turns out the labour market is full of barriers, perverse incentives, managers whose brains are being choked by their neckties, etc.
 
  • 10
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Katsue

Colonel
57 Badges
Dec 13, 2013
871
639
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
To be honest, I think the resettlement of slaves should also cost Influence. Slaves have owners and moving their property from one system to another should have a political cost. Even if you imagine that the slaves are all owned by the state, they would still be effectively the property of different Departments, Governors, or whatever.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

AaronArx

Major
35 Badges
Feb 16, 2015
501
115
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
They're fairly similar. For Industrial things, change all the consumer goods jobs into alloy jobs. If it's a tier 1 resource generating job, hives get more of them.


10% currently, but the overall chance is multiplied by the number of unemployed pops.

At these numbers, here's the quick chart of "what is the chance that a single unemployed pop will have migrated within x months?"
MONTH
123456789101112
Base Empire10.00%19.00%27.10%34.39%40.95%46.86%52.17%56.95%61.26%65.13%68.62%71.76%
Base Empire + Hub20.00%36.00%48.80%59.04%67.23%73.79%79.03%83.22%86.58%89.26%91.41%93.13%
Base Empire + GTO30.00%51.00%65.70%75.99%83.19%88.24%91.76%94.24%95.96%97.18%98.02%98.62%
Base Empire + Hub + GTO40.00%64.00%78.40%87.04%92.22%95.33%97.20%98.32%98.99%99.40%99.64%99.78%
Democracy15.00%27.75%38.59%47.80%55.63%62.29%67.94%72.75%76.84%80.31%83.27%85.78%
Democracy + Hub25.00%43.75%57.81%68.36%76.27%82.20%86.65%89.99%92.49%94.37%95.78%96.83%
Democracy + GTO35.00%57.75%72.54%82.15%88.40%92.46%95.10%96.81%97.93%98.65%99.12%99.43%
Democracy + Hub + GTO45.00%69.75%83.36%90.85%94.97%97.23%98.48%99.16%99.54%99.75%99.86%99.92%

This also affects every planet now, and as noted above, if you have two unemployed pops on a planet, double these numbers.


Yes.


This is one of the things that is still in balancing, but currently it's total housing but we include a bonus for undeveloped districts. People living off the land and such. Some planets, like Gaia worlds, get more carrying capacity for their undeveloped districts.

This may change to be a simpler formula largely based on planet size, since there are a couple of quirks I'm not totally happy with right now.


An Ecumenopolis still has an extremely high carrying capacity so is excellent for population growth, and is also quite effective at producing both jobs and housing from a single district type. It's still borderline OP, don't worry.


Pop Assembly doesn't follow the logistic curve, it's (generally) slower but constant.
What does GTO mean again? I think I missed it
 

Birdos

Sergeant
58 Badges
Mar 11, 2016
93
346
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines
you want it to be fixed on your tech level and number of non-basic jobs? i'm ok with that.
That would actually make more sense and perhaps even provide a more interesting tradeoff.

I disagree. I feel like it invites a change in game play that is most welcome. Instead of rushing pops you now have to "lengthen the curve" by fighting the the growing number needed for a pop with growth boons in tech.

With colonies being able to split off and merged again after a little while, this severely increases the value of the Shared Destiny perk. It actually might become viable as a strategy.

It also increases the value of Nihilistic Aquisition or Barbaric Despoilers because you can keep alive enemy empires and harvest their pops every 10 years. Their decreased pop size will result in faster growth.

I'm all for game changes that bring out niches as actually viable options.
That is the definition of a lazy mechanic: one that cannot be explained within the game's lore/logic and is so gamey that the optimal play is to grant your own planets independence so they grow faster and then reconquer/integrate them.
 

Drachenfels

Captain
46 Badges
Jul 16, 2011
459
119
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
In our experiments we've modified the curve somewhat so new colonies aren't incredibly slow to grow.
On that front actually, it should be almost a requirement to resettle pops from homeworld. It's not that we will start colonizing Mars by sending Adam and Eve and letting them do their thing.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions: