• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #192 : Perfectly Balanced, As All Things Should Be...

Hello!

This week we’re going to look at some more changes we're planning, as well as a review of how some of the experiments mentioned in the last few dev diaries have evolved.

Thank you for the massive amount of feedback in those threads.

Reduction in Pops

Due to the effects on performance and a desire to reduce the micromanagement burden in the mid to late game, some of the things we’ve been deeply looking into are different ways of dramatically reducing the number of pops in the galaxy.

These experiments have generally revolved around modifying the growth (or assembly required) for pops as an empire’s population grows, with some variants trying a logistic pop growth (where growth follows an S-shaped curve as planets develop, based on a carrying capacity of a planet). These experiments have reduced the end date pop count to somewhere around one half of the old numbers with the expected performance improvements.

Organic pops will follow a curve where they begin at standard population growth, increase growth as the approach a midpoint between population and the planetary carrying capacity, then slow down to zero as they reach the top of the curve. Pop Assembly, on the other hand, is generally slow but consistent. The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does.

A significant reduction in pops has a cascade of major implications for the overall economy, production, and other gameplay effects. As such, these also require a pass on buildings, technologies, and even seemingly minor ripple effects like what the value should be for the trade value generated by pops.

There will be a lot of patch notes.

Most buildings have been standardized to now give 2 jobs per tier rather than the old 2/5/8 progression.

1605711331057.png

Just one example of many.

We’ve also changed a few buildings to have new or additional features, such as the Spawning Pool and Clone Vats, which have had their Pop Growth modifiers replaced with the new Organic Pop Assembly. This fills the same slot on the planet as Robotic Pop Assembly, so generally you’ll want to pick one or the other. (Clone Vats also picked up a food upkeep cost to represent simple materials to break down.)

1605711370874.png
1605711378849.png

Pops is Soylent Green!

A few other jobs got minor perks added to them, like the Medical Workers from Gene Clinics making it a little easier to live on less hospitable worlds.

1605711434441.png

Doesn't normally produce exotic gas, this one happens to be a lithoid.

And a few new techs have been added to help compensate for lost productivity. One tech line increases both the job production of a planet as well as job upkeep - those fewer pops are still capable of producing the work of more on a developed planet.

Ring Worlds

As part of the balance pass, Ring Worlds have been bumped up to 10 segments from 5, and the jobs per segment have been adjusted.

1605711480292.png
1605711496833.png
1605711511728.png
1605711521188.png
1605711530973.png

The Shattered Ring origin now possesses a warning that it may be a Challenging Origin for Lithoids due to a scarcity of minerals, and now also applies the Ring World Habitability Preference to your pops. We’re considering adding a similar warning for Hives selecting the origin, since the habitability preference change puts a serious crimp in their expansion.

1605711541929.png

Put a ring on it?

Their starting blockers have also been adjusted to give a more balanced spread of jobs.

Ecumenopoleis

Like the Ring Worlds, these start with all building slots open. As mentioned before, you can now use the Arcology Project decision on a planet that has a mix of City and Industrial Districts.

Note: Empire has all technologies but no traditions active.
1605711566787.png
1605711585016.png
1605711593479.png
1605711601512.png

The ecumenopolis has a unique distinction of being able to have both the Factory and Foundry building lines on the same planet.

Habitats

The changes to Habitat modules are much smaller in scope, but here’s the list of their districts.

1605711621995.png
1605711632042.png
1605711641350.png
1605711651091.png
1605711658034.png

Void Dwellers have gotten a bit of attention as well with some tradition swaps for those that had minimal or no beneficial effects for them.

1605711683433.png

1605711691774.png


Replacing Public Works Division:
1605711706121.png


And for Void Dwellers with the Adaptability tree:
1605711724002.png


Interstellar Franchising and Imperious Architecture now also function for Habitats.

Updates to Dev Diary 190

Some of these updates may not be new to people following the forum threads, but it's easy to miss things so I figured we should go over them.

Many people requested the ability to fully specialize their foundry and factory worlds. We've modified the Forge and Industrial World planet designations to shift one pop on each Industrial District to the appropriate job if possible.

1605711738324.png
1605711745816.png


We've also upgraded the Food Processing Center, Mineral Purification Hub, and Energy Nexus to provide an extra job to each of their associated resource production districts. (The Food Processing Center will also improve Hydroponics Farms.)

1605711771358.png
1605711779670.png
1605711789149.png


One of the suggestions made in the thread was to add a civic that increases unlocked Building Slots. Sounded like a great addition to Functional Architecture.

1605711797879.png

Functionality increased!

Updates to Dev Diary 191

We’ve explored some additional options regarding the resettlement system we outlined in Dev Diary 191, and after trying a few things, and have settled on some extensive modifications to the system.

All planets with free sapient unemployed pops that are not locked down by migration controls will have a small chance every month of moving one to another planet within their empire that has jobs that they are willing and able to work, housing, and habitability of 40% or higher. This chance is increased if there are multiple unemployed pops that meet the criteria.

The system now prefers to move higher strata pops first, so rulers and specialists will move before workers, and this system also functions for gestalt empires. It will not relocate non-sapient robots or slaves. It will generally prefer to move pops to the planets with the most free jobs.

After some experimentation we’ve chosen to keep the Transit Hubs as Starbase Buildings that provide a system wide buff to the chance of auto-resettlement occurring. (Rather than being essential to have it occur in the first place.)

1605711834820.png

Doubles the chance the pops choose to resettle themselves.

Greater Than Ourselves has been rewritten to also massively increase this chance when the edict is active, with a +200% bonus.

We initially had these pops considering destinations available through Migration Pacts as well, but decided against keeping that since it introduced a new Migration Controls micromanagement element that we didn’t find desirable.

We’ve also done a minor update to the Authority bonuses that seemed a little bit weak.

1605711874350.png

1605711882524.png


Democracies now have a bonus encouraging their pops to seek their dreams, and Dictatorships have a bit of an easier time holding things together when they’re a bit overstretched.

Closing Thoughts

One other little quality of life improvement that was just added is this filter on the colonization interface.

Colonisation QoL.gif


That’s probably long enough for today. We’re looking forward to your feedback on these as well.

Next week w̷e̵'̸l̸l̴ ̴b̸e̴t̵̮̄ǎ̸͈l̷̠̈k̴͔͂i̴̞͒n̷̪͊g̸̳͗ ̸͚̎a̵͉̐b̵̤̿ȯ̴̲ṵ̵̀t̸͇͂ ҈҂▒©╛⅜

1605711927580.png
 
  • 209Like
  • 111Love
  • 24
  • 13
  • 7
  • 2Haha
Reactions:
I'd feel better about the Logistic pop growth if it weren't for us not being able to force resettle pops easily. The combo of those two means that moving dudes to your Ecumenopoli and Ring Worlds is a no go now. Like they'll just never get populated.
 
Wouldn't honestly mind getting tomb world habitability at start, though I have kinda grown fond of the difference between "this species survived nuclear apocalypse" and "this species evolved on tomb world planet" ;p

I definitely like the option to finally start with ring world habitability species since previously those were just for very few super obscure event species and I'm not thinking this from point of balance, but point of someone who actually does appreacite life seeded origin. Would still like to have relic world habitability pickable somehow even if remnant isn't altered to have it(I could see remnants having relic world habitability and colonial modifiers giving them huge habitability boosts, but flavor wise it wouldn't really work that well since the remnant civilization didn't evolve on the relic world nor its been implied to have been so long that they forgot their own history.)
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I definitely like the option to finally start with ring world habitability species since previously those were just for very few super obscure event species and I'm not thinking this from point of balance, but point of someone who actually does appreacite life seeded origin.
Oh my god, finally, I'm not the only one who actually likes climate preference being used for flavor.

I've argued a while back that fallen empire colonies should all spawn as Gaia worlds (and no longer be guaranteed size 16, reduced to random size within the range of 11-15), and that the climate preference of the fallen empire species should always be set to Gaia preference to represent the fact that they became accustomed to living in perfect conditions.

And then I got a bunch of whinging along the lines of "it's a handicap, why would they have a handicap" :rolleyes:

Fuck that noise, it's a handicap that suits them, in the same way a negative Decadent trait would suit them, in the same way a negative Luxurious trait suits their synths.
 
Last edited:
  • 17Like
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:
And then I got a bunch if whinging over "it's a handicap, why would they have a handicap" :rolleyes:
You could reply that with "'It's a preference, why would they have a preference?' Why do any of us have preferences really? Does the why even matter? We just do."

It makes no sense that Void Dwellers and Life Seeded worlds got their preference adjusted at launch and ring worlds got away without it for so long. This is true from both a thematic and game play balance perspective.

Players that actively rebel to this argumentation just don't want their OP toy to be taken away. A toy that they shouldn't have had to begin with.
 
  • 11
Reactions:
You could reply that with "'It's a preference, why would they have a preference?' Why do any of us have preferences really? Does the why even matter? We just do."
I've got a bunch of nonsense along the lines of "habitability flavor text states that it developed through evolution or modification, therefore it couldn't develop naturally through spending thousands of years exclusively on paradise planets!"

Even though that blatantly contradicts the origin and habitat preference of Void Dwellers, lmao.

Or "they'd have to genetically modify themselves to have Gaia preference, and they wouldn't do that since it's undesirable and disadvantageous in gameplay!"

It was so damn stupid.

It makes no sense that Void Dwellers and Life Seeded worlds got their preference adjusted at launch and ring worlds got away without it for so long. This is true from both a thematic and game play balance perspective.
The handicap argument I was referring to was about Gaia preference for fallen empires species rather than the Shattered Ring origin.

But yeah, it also makes much more sense for Shattered Ring to start with Ringworld preference. I've played with Shattered Ring myself, and it felt weird for my species to have preference for a climate type they never even set foot on.
 
Last edited:
  • 6
  • 1
Reactions:
Pop growth should be tied to food, as that has always been the limiting factor for civilisations.
 
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:
Pop growth should be tied to food, as that has always been the limiting factor for civilisations.
This is not the case. There have been studies about utopian conditions where a species of rats get everything they could ever hope for. With these colonies they tend to slowly grow, then as numbers increase grow rapidly, and finally have a decreased growth, disturbingly into extinction.

This wasn't due to a lack of food, as they got supplied more then they needed.

 
  • 6
  • 1Love
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Habitats are intended to be cramped. You get two building slots from the capital building, two from technologies, one from tradition (or two with adaptability), and (if you pick them) one from a civic and two from an ascension perk. If you stack all of those, that's 9 building slots. Considering that functional architecture also reduces the alloy upkeep of habitats (as it's attached to the capital building), it's going to be a very powerful synergy.

Note: Not Final Numbers are Not Final

Yup, habitats for normal empires are cramped if they don't stack for bonuses, going by memory they'll start with 1 free building slot and end up with 4 free building slots (+2 if you take Voidborn). Functional Architecture gives another +1, Adaptability (if you're Fanatic Purifiers, Inwards Perfectionist, Barbaric Despoilers, Necrophage or a HIve Mind) gives another +1. So if you aim for it, you could be able to hit 8 building slots on a habitat. However, most of those bonuses (technologies, Functional Architecture, Adaptability) also apply to planets. I don't expect many normal empires will take Voidborn unless they're seriously leaning into expanding on habitats - Life-Seeded or Shattered Ring empires could benefit?

On the other hand, Modular Superstructures (for Void Dwellers) gives +1 building slot to habitats only, so if they stack the same way (Functional Architecture, Voidborn and a civic that grants Adaptability) they could hit 9 free building slots. However the rest of their tradition swaps are geared for them to avoid settling on planets.
 
  • 19
  • 6Like
Reactions:
I think the game rounded the 12.5 from Clerk jobs on Habitat Trade districts down to 12 for the tooltip.
There's no real way to tell as we don't really know what trade value modifiers that specific play trough had active. If any of the modifiers in the table apply then the numbers are skewed.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Note: Not Final Numbers are Not Final

Yup, habitats for normal empires are cramped if they don't stack for bonuses, going by memory they'll start with 1 free building slot and end up with 4 free building slots (+2 if you take Voidborn). Functional Architecture gives another +1, Adaptability (if you're Fanatic Purifiers, Inwards Perfectionist, Barbaric Despoilers, Necrophage or a HIve Mind) gives another +1. So if you aim for it, you could be able to hit 8 building slots on a habitat. However, most of those bonuses (technologies, Functional Architecture, Adaptability) also apply to planets. I don't expect many normal empires will take Voidborn unless they're seriously leaning into expanding on habitats - Life-Seeded or Shattered Ring empires could benefit?

On the other hand, Modular Superstructures (for Void Dwellers) gives +1 building slot to habitats only, so if they stack the same way (Functional Architecture, Voidborn and a civic that grants Adaptability) they could hit 9 free building slots. However the rest of their tradition swaps are geared for them to avoid settling on planets.
9 building slots per habitat if you are stacking hard...so more likely 5-7 for most
that certainly makes the research district more valuable (honestly I usually skipeed them and just put a bunch of research complexes on a habitat)
but I am a little bit worried about food production and administrative capacity at this point
 
9 building slots per habitat if you are stacking hard...so more likely 5-7 for most
that certainly makes the research district more valuable (honestly I usually skipeed them and just put a bunch of research complexes on a habitat)
but I am a little bit worried about food production and administrative capacity at this point
More reason for voidbornes to rush for droids. And for everyone else to go for Ring worlds.
 
Thinking on it, you guys (PDX) mentioned a tech line that increase both pop job production and upkeep. (So they spend more to make more.). Can you show us an example of this tech [non-final numbers being non-final, of course]?
 
honestly in my recent runs I was not a big fan of robotics and i would hate that to become the one valid tactic
Oh there's still options for voidborne players, here's all I can think of right now
  • Lithoids don't care about your silly habitability. 50% base +20% from tech +5% from cyto-revitalization center and you got a +75% habitability on every world
  • Terraforming to Gaia worlds with World Shaper ascension perk
  • Terraforming to Ecumenopolis with Arcology Project ascension perk
  • Migration treaty pops for egalitarian empires
  • Slave pops for authoritarian empires
  • Droid pops for any empire
  • Gene modding your species
  • Synth ascending your species
The Migration pops, slave pops and droid pops are the early game options. Of these options Droids are just the easiest to manage since you don't have to rely on other empires and they have habitability on anything.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
I don't expect many normal empires will take Voidborn unless they're seriously leaning into expanding on habitats - Life-Seeded or Shattered Ring empires could benefit?

Well... Except if you are going to war constantly... Currently there is a point in the game where you can not yet build ring worlds but you have many alloys. Generally I can build min ~6 habitats without sacrificing anything before I can get ring worlds. And here I don't see anything that will stop me to continue doing this. I would say even more, with the fact that rare resources will be more valuable and slots also... Habitats will still be very useful and should be spam...

We could even see rare resources ring worlds soon IMHO...