Stellaris Dev Diary #190 : Leading Economic Indicators

Stellaris Dev Diary #190 : Leading Economic Indicators

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Eladrin

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And I'm still curious, what are your thoughts on shifting Industrial district jobs with planetary decisions instead of planet designations?
Between the two I prefer using designations to handle things if possible, partially because of UX issues surrounding decisions.

And what can we expect from Ecumonopolis and Ringworld districts and jobs?
I'll likely talk about those in next week's dev diary.
 
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Lorenerd11

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Between the two I prefer using designations to handle things if possible, partially because of UX issues surrounding decisions.
As others pointed out though, using designations would make players unable to shift jobs on worlds not specifically dedicated for Industrial production (e.g. Tech-Worls), or on the Empire Capital.

It could also create unexpected consumer goods deficits if planet designation is automatically changed to Forge World, possibly leaving players in a situation where they have no idea what happened to their consumer goods production.

Decisions would have neither of these issues.

I'll likely talk about those in next week's dev diary.
Alright, looking forward to it! :D
 
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Thinghunter

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Hi guys,
reading this dev diary & the long thread gives me several ideas aswell:
  1. Remove the Crystal Miner, Translucer & Gas Extractor jobs & their corresponding buildings. Instead:
    If a planet has deposits for Exotic Gases, Rare Crystals & or Valatile Motes, the planet gets additional Mining District Slots & the production of Miners is changed so that the Miners produce an additional small amount of those special ressources (that amount could be depending on the size of the corresponding deposit).

  2. Merge the Chemist, Gas Refiner & Translucer to an Industrial Worker job responsible for converting minerals into more specialized ressources. Determining what is produced by that job could be done via an empire wide output ratio (e.g. by making a slider or ascertaining the direct values). This would be in my opinion work very well because every job takes has the same input/output ratio & matrerials. You would save 2 buildings + Jobs & you would be able to tailor the production directly to your needs.

  3. If you want to be very bold, merge the Artisan & the Metallurgist and decide the output ratio by a slider (empire wide/sector wide or planet wide).

  4. It may very well possible to merge the jobs from changes 2 & 3 with a unified slider for all output so the number of jobs & buildings get reduced again. Reducing the number of jobs would make it easier to govern an empire for both players & the AI without reducing the depth of the gameplay as you create as many Artisan jobs as you have to, but as many Metallurgists as possible in any given situation (the same is true for the Chemist, Gas Refiner & Translucer which get created as few as possible). Last but not least, less jobs may very well increase the game performance substancially.

  5. Create districts for bureaucrats, soldiers, scientists & co. for empires with certain civics. One example could be that an empire using the Technocracy civic gets a district providing scientists. This would make empires play completely different depending on the choosen civics and reflect the fact that e.g. for Technocracies science is as basic as food or minerals.

  6. Alternatively to 5, those civics could replace 1 (or 2 with the respective perk in the Prosperity Tradition tree) Clerk jobs in a city district (or more in a City Segment/Residental Arcology)
 

Pyzayt

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I realised something last night during a conversation about this change; with the reduced number of building slots, FE Capitals wont have enough building slots for their current setups. What will happen to FE homeworlds if this goes ahead?
 
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mial42

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Having 11 tier 3 foundries also requires 11 mote refineries on another world (actually less due to excess from bonus production and reduction of upkeep, but still). If we restrict ourselves to only using that planet, then you'd need 5 refineries and 6 T3 foundries, giving only 48 jobs... the exact same amount you get from districts. Now admittedly you'd get some motes from space deposits or offload the production to another world, and in the new model you'll need a district or two to be a city in order to house the extra workers, but it's not the massive disparity that your post described.
There's 0 reason to restrict yourself to using the one planet. If you stipulate that the minerals must also come from the planet, then all of a sudden big worlds become even better, but you wouldn't, because that's not how the Stellaris economy works. Bigger, rural planets currently have excess building slots; you off load the refineries to one (or a habitat, which functions similarly) somewhere else. Currently, there's a nice congruence: Specialists require city districts for housing, and small planets need city districts to support large populations, so they go well together. The new system breaks that link for forge and factory worlds.
But that isn't actually the reason why I said that small planets would be industry focused. It's to answer the question: "What do I do when my planet gets full?". In the old system you could upgrade buildings, offloading the mote production to large rural worlds with plenty of free building slots. And to be fair, you can still do this as a research world or bureaucrat world. But if you do it with industrial districts, then the time you fill up should be just about the time you unlock the Arcology Project. If you unlock it early you can just build some empty districts, if you unlock it later resettle some pops or build some job producing buildings. Now your size 12 planet can support 120 jobs base, plus however many more you can get from the foundry/factory. Yes, eventually you will fill that up to, but at that point you should have another ecumenopolis up and coming as well.

While larger planets do get more benefit out being ecumenopoli, a good player will unlock the AP far earlier then these large planets fill up. Add to the fact that Ecumenopoli are no longer necessary for spamming metallurgists, and I think smaller planets will become the choice for a first ecumenopolis.
If anything, I think the reverse will be true, and bigger planets will become even more dominant over small ones for ecumenepoli. Right now, the process for readying a planet for the Arcology project significantly reduces its economic output and development potential, since you have to spend all the queue time building useless city districts. This makes smaller planets a good choice for an early arcology, since they have less district-based economic output anyways. With this change, the process for making an arcology will be doing what you'd be doing anyways on a forge/factory world; building industrial districts. There's no development potential loss for this, and so you can start doing it much earlier. By the time you get the arcology project, the upkeep and build costs for regular districts are trivial, so there's nothing stopping you from building 10-12 extra industrial districts on a big planet ahead of time (unlike currently, where building a dozen extra city districts hurts output significantly because you can't build or upgrade the actually productive buildings in the process). There's absolutely no reason to wait for a planet to fill up to do the arcology project when resettlement exists. The smart play with the new system would be to just pre-build industrial districts on a big world, convert it, and resettle pops from the smaller planets to it.
 

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I am ever present and try to read as much of what the community here says as I can, provided it's constructive :)
Can I ask what major issues the change to industrial districts will fix? This change will cause a bunch of major issues, so I question what major issues it's solving that couldn't be solved some other way.
 
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steinernein

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I guess they finally realized they should've just done what the original Master of Orion did which was basically pure sliders.

So now it's just districts instead of sliders which makes managing the AI much easier - hopefully, maybe.
 

mial42

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I guess they finally realized they should've just done what the original Master of Orion did which was basically pure sliders.

So now it's just districts instead of sliders which makes managing the AI much easier - hopefully, maybe.
Except they're not doing that. They're only doing it for industrial districts, which is the area where it's least important or helpful.
 
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