Stellaris Dev Diary #188: Necroid Characters & the Art process

Stellaris Dev Diary #188: Necroid Characters & the Art process

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sillyrobot

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Nature don't work by making mistakes. And giving intelligence to eyeless, blind aliens would be a mistake! So, unless you can proof it, THERE IS NO WAY AN EYELESS ALIEN CAN ANALIZE A 3D IMAGE. PERIOD!
Gee, lets look for mistakes, shall we? There are deer with fangs. Humans have appendixes. The human eye has a blind spot where the nerve gets in the way, but the octopus eye does not..

Nature doesn't care about mistakes unless those mistakes impair survivability.

And sonar is better at 3D than sight. That's why a bat hunts moths with sonar -- not sight.
 
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Abiezer

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If you originate from an environment lacking in ambient light, eyes are a pointless liability since they are vulnerable to damage. If sonar is applicable, computer readouts are in no way a problem. Ditto for tactile senses, magnetic senses, etc etc.

There is no reason why a blind sophont shouldn't develop tech and, indeed, FTL drives.
 
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Gundabadguy

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Nature don't work by making mistakes. And giving intelligence to eyeless, blind aliens would be a mistake! So, unless you can proof it, THERE IS NO WAY AN EYELESS ALIEN CAN ANALIZE A 3D IMAGE. PERIOD!
I just proved to you how an eyeless aliens can analyse a 3D image.
 

eagletrekkie

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You are just saying that because you don't know a game called Space Empires V -- that game has some very interesting non-humanoid aliens. The best part? All they were done by S.C.Watson, one of the creators of the mods Alien Suns and Alien Suns: The Outer Rim . The aliens of the Space Empires V can be seen here (Attention: site in japanese).

My favorites? those are the Ukra-Tal Collective -- dragon/serpent/slug-like aliens with advanced organic technology.
So I went back to find where this tangent started, and this seems to be the jumping off point.

And I have to say, given the designs of some of the aliens in the mentioned game, I find it absolutely hilarious that eyes are where the line is being drawn.
 
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Lord Hoosier

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For the good of this game, I really do help a big fox update is coming soon behind this portrait pack. I love the new art, but I really am starting to agree this game needs help.

EDIT: Especially with it's crowd funded rival being announced.
 

Terrarkul

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I really really hope one of the necroids is a spooky bat-like alien. I've been using the six-eyed canid mammal for my bats for ages.
 
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Ragnarok Ascendant

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Okay, let's be real here: this was put out because PDox is afraid not talking will be seen as them abandoning the game. However, instead of pacifying the community, it's instead pissed everyone off because people don't want to hear about art (even good art) they want to hear about playability and game functionality.
 
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Gundabadguy

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Bats don't operate computers -- but apes with good eye sight (us)? they can do it easily. PERIOD!
There are creatures with much better sight than us that don’t operate computers. Sight ≠ Sentience. Sentience - sight ≠ non-sentient
You done nothing! All you done was to give an extraordinary claim without giving any solid proof!
You haven’t given solid proof that you need eyes to be sentient. You would need to get more than one sentient species to use as examples to prove that to me. So whilst neither of us can prove each other with good evidence, the fact that my theoretical idea works is good enough.
 
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Orphalesion

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???? They'd operate them with limbs. I don't understand what your question is supposed to be. They'd reach out and touch the machines.
You disappoint me, you could have at least come up with some fanciful idea of them recording things via hollowed out cylinders of some sort which they "read" with their sonar.

Yes, it would. So what? That does nothing to preclude the ability for a sightless species to achieve intelligence.
I still think sight/light perception is too good an advantage to pass up in most earth like environments for the bulk of species. Might as well talk about an advanced species that is incapable of any form of locomotion.

Anglerfish live near the 'top' of the abyssal layer. Go down to the geothermal vents and there is plenty of species with absolutely no eyesight at all. And, again 'unlikely' is not the same as 'it's impossible, they'd have to be uplifted', and the latter is the only thing I'm arguing against.
And again the abyssal layer is unlikely to bethe home of a technologically advanced civilization, the sea in general is unlikely (I still want aquatics/pisceans, because its a game not science)
Those creatures down at the sea vents are also very primitive, mostly tubeworms and the more complex/intelligent ones, such as Vulcanoctopi are what Imentio I earlier; intellent species that *lost*their sight and could likely recover it if conditions changed rather than intelligent life that has evolved without sight.
 

Gundabadguy

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I still think sight/light perception is too good an advantage to pass up in most earth like environments for the bulk of species. Might as well talk about an advanced species that is incapable of any form of locomotion.
We are talking about an environment where light perception would be unnecessary not an Earth-like environment.
 
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Vladisi

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And sonar is better at 3D than sight. That's why a bat hunts moths with sonar -- not sight.
That's because bats hunt in low-light environment. If they could produce light like a poweful flashlight and had omnidirectional vision (or even better, had laser mapping technology), do you really believe they would see better with echolocation? All they can "see" with sonar is general position of things. Sound is not that great for finer details, its wavelength is not fit for them, just as light is not fit to see anything smaller than bacteria, which is why we use electron microscopes. It is better than light at sounding solids though, since it propagates in them, while electromagnetic waves are stopped by them with differing efficiency.
 

LWE

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Okay, let's be real here: this was put out because PDox is afraid not talking will be seen as them abandoning the game. However, instead of pacifying the community, it's instead pissed everyone off because people don't want to hear about art (even good art) they want to hear about playability and game functionality.
These diaries give the impression of being pre-written.
 
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eagletrekkie

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That's because bats hunt in low-light environment. If they could produce light like a poweful flashlight and had omnidirectional vision (or even better, had laser mapping technology), do you really believe they would see better with echolocation? All they can "see" with sonar is general position of things. Sound is not that great for finer details, its wavelength is not fit for them, just as light is not fit to see anything smaller than bacteria, which is why we use electron microscopes. It is better than light at sounding solids though, since it propagates in them, while electromagnetic waves are stopped by them with differing efficiency.
Okay, so let's look at that environment, low light conditions - which is also where we see eyeless animals evolving in caves. Is it unreasonable that a nocturnal alien on a planet with no moon might not have eyes? Yes, it might be advantageous to engage the infrared portion of the visible spectrum, but as we see in snakes, such detection can be handled without traditional eyes.

I'm not saying it would be particularly common, but it's not completely out of the realm of possibility.
 
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Duuk

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This may be my favorite thread derailment of all time.

"LOOK, NECROIDS!"

<pitchfork brigade wanting to burn down Paradox for patch notes>

<appreciation of the artwork>

YOU NEED HUMAN 5 SENSES TO BE SENTIENT!!!!
 
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FlyingPhoenix

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For the good of this game, I really do help a big fox update is coming soon behind this portrait pack. I love the new art, but I really am starting to agree this game needs help.

EDIT: Especially with it's crowd funded rival being announced.
Oooh, what game is its crowdfunded rival?

I'm looking forward to the Distant Worlds sequel.
 

Garfazz Steamfang

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For the good of this game, I really do help a big fox update is coming soon behind this portrait pack. I love the new art, but I really am starting to agree this game needs help.

EDIT: Especially with it's crowd funded rival being announced.
Oooh, what game is its crowdfunded rival?

I'm looking forward to the Distant Worlds sequel.
Interested by it aswell it's not that i have no faith in paradox but...
 

MrFreake_PDX

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Hi folks,

it seems like the harmless debate about "whether the filthy xenos need eyes" is getting heated, seems like a good time to remind everyone to stay on topic.

This is the dev diary thread, please keep discussions to the DD in question, and move your other discussions to a separate thread.

Thank you! :D
 
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Pale Blue

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The previous species packs included their own advisors. Will necroids also have one? Is the voice in the trailer a sample of a potential new advisor voice?

Edit: yes it does. I found the answer in a previous Dev diary.
 
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