Stellaris Dev Diary #182 : The Perils of Scripting and How to Avoid Them

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Guilliman88

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Fascinating read!

Also

if at all possible but rather a filtered list, e.g. any_planet_within_border instead of any_planet = { solar_system.owner = { is_same_value = prevprev } } (you laugh, but I’ve seen it)

*sweats nervously*
 
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Another important improvement we added in 2.6 was any_owned_species, which can replace many any_owned_pop checks (specifically the ones that check for traits and so on of the pop) and mean that way, way fewer objects have to be checked (in a xenophobic empire, it could be single figures for any_owned_species and thousands for any_owned_pop).

So what you are really saying is that Xeno-Compatibility should burn in the deepest pits of hell.
 
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Our regular multiplayer crowd does this too! Good to know we can blame the assimilator players! :D ;)

So noticeable were these spikes that we began wishing each other a Happy New Year each time the game froze!
 

Caligula Caesar

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So what you are really saying is that Xeno-Compatibility should burn in the deepest pits of hell.
Well that was a given, anyway - I am the one who is responsible for making a galaxy generation option to disable it :p

P.s. re the assimilation freeze: We actually shipped that fix in the Anniversary patch, so all I can say is that it used to be worse ;) But maybe it's something to revisit again, if we get the chance.
 
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I'm thankful for all the insights but I would not consider this a DD but more like a "side-story" for modders.
Unfortunately, there was nothing interesting for us people who just want the game to work properly.
Same with the previous "DD", it's really insightful but has no value for people who just want a bug-free game.

I'm more curious about roadmap of the game, rather then short stories how everything in the code is wrong which the community knows since 2.2 and how you are fixing it now.

Give us info on what kind of new features are gonna be added to the game, what bugs have been fixed.

I just want to know where are the priorties of the development team right now.
That's what I would consider interesting read.

PS: I get it, performance is being worked on, but do we really need two posts for that and how something doesn't work?
 
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Ridixo

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Nice filler, please, someone tell me when the real DD are back :D
 
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azurit

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Okay, moaning about this not being a proper DD is hilariously unfair. The forum vocal community has been on the performance case for ages, but apparently this is not what we wanted. Ugh.
 
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Okay, moaning about this not being a proper DD is hilariously unfair. The forum vocal community has been on the performance case for ages, but apparently this is not what we wanted. Ugh.

I, for one, want a patch or a fix, not a dev diary that tells things people have been pointing out for a while for occasioning performance problems :)
 
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Innomion

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As a modder I really appreciated this DevDiary, but maybe such content is indeed better suited to its own series. Look, I can dream, right? :D

Just last week I cleaned up some code and got it down from 2000 lines of copy+paste (for different planet_classes) to just about 700. Using switches and my own scripted_effect turned out to really cut down on bloat.
Maybe I should similarly double check the performance. Thankfully most of my stuff runs once on game_start and then never again.

...and there are so many things I wish the scripting language could do but that it probably won't any time soon (more ways of eliminating copy-pasta, for instance).

Would you mind explaining that statement? I wrote my own parser for a context-sensitive language once (it could describe traffic situations) and it gets tricky. Is it along those lines?
 
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Kayden_II

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OK, this is basically a ( more or less helpful ) insight in regards to "How to optimise Stellaris", but I've trouble to read through the lines this time: Were made any actual optimisations ( actual results ) from the ( current ) version of V2.7.2 to the ( most likely ) upcoming one of V2.8.0 or not ?
 
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Okay, moaning about this not being a proper DD is hilariously unfair. The forum vocal community has been on the performance case for ages, but apparently this is not what we wanted. Ugh.

As I said, I'm glad for every piece of information we get about development, but there's just nothing I can consider relevant to what's happening to the game with this "DD". And I don't think we needed two different "DD"s that tell us about performance problems.

OK, this is basically a ( more or less helpful ) insight in regards to "How to optimise Stellaris", but I've trouble to read through the lines this time: Were made any actual optimisations ( actual results ) from the ( current ) version of V2.7.2 to the ( most likely ) upcoming one of V2.8.0 or not ?

This.
 
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Tamwin5

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OK, this is basically a ( more or less helpful ) insight in regards to "How to optimise Stellaris", but I've trouble to read through the lines this time: Were made any actual optimisations ( actual results ) from the ( current ) version of V2.7.2 to the ( most likely ) upcoming one of V2.8.0 or not ?

I'd expect that stuff to be its own dev diary, and I can imagine they'd wait until more things were fixed up to post it (compared to this Dev diary, which won't have more to say if it was posted two months from now). We'll probably get several dev diaries about content before we get that one. If we get up to launch and there hasn't been any hint of fixes though, that's when the pitchforks come out.
 
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The_Draco

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well, it seems some here did not really read or understand the complete text of this DD, as fas as i understand it, this does NOT say what they are working on ATM but tryes to tell us (especially the modders among us) how some of the "codes" work and what may cause problems with performence with some examples what they (paradox) have done (already, maybe in some patches before the coming one)... so again, this one does NOT expecially contain actual performance optimisations (!)

PS: if i understand it right, the "background code" is in c++, @MK1980, its just the stuff "we" see wich is not (maybe)

In my opinion this DD is helpful, for modders who want to know how to optimise theyr mods.
But it maybe is not a DD about actual progress in detail
 
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charliex3

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well, it seems some here did not really read or understand the complete text of this DD, as fas as i understand it, this does NOT say what they are working on ATM but tryes to tell us (especially the modders among us) how some of the "codes" work and what may cause problems with performence with some examples what they (paradox) have done (already, maybe in some patches before the coming one)... so again, this one does NOT expecially contain actual performance optimisations (!)

PS: if i understand it right, the "background code" is in c++, @MK1980, its just the stuff "we" see wich is not (maybe)

In my opinion this DD is helpful, for modders who want to know how to optimise theyr mods.
But it maybe is not a DD about actual progress in detail

This thread should be then as a pinned thread in "User mods" sub-forum so it's not forever forgotten when another DD pops up next week.
And we should have gotten an actual DD. This is more like a guideline for modders.
 
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MaeltneMealtime

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Ah yes the ASSIMILATION lag! Glad you found it! Hopefully you can also find why previous players who leave have their AIs decide to assimilate every pop, evenwhen it shouldn't even be possible...

I might also suggest keep playing remotely, hopefully pdx can get it so that the game doesn't 99%+ desync on hotjoin, or with the Dothmaki gas giant whales event, or with the endless expanse, or the persistant CTD (multiple event windows that persist through a hotjoin and CTD when they come in mouse scope) with the building a ringworld events.
 
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PDX creates a 4x with pops and sell is like "it's going to be even better than victoria 2!!!, you can do anything with pops!", and then it's the fault of modders that create scripts that touch pops. Besides the product crawls down to unplayable speeds without mods.

All of this was irrelevant when planets had 25 pops. By allowing hundreds of pops on colonies without a proper system to process then, most/all scripts broke (performance wise), and now it's the fault of the scripts and not of the engine. No, the assimilation script was not to blame, the fact that you chose to throw 10.000 pops at it, and have the engine operate beyond its design specs is.

Yes, you can spend time to improve the scripts, but that will always have a marginal or minimal improvement, without solving the undelying issue.
 
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CrazyJ

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I'm still waiting for the dd where they fix the ai. the lag is irritating, but having a crisis that is dumber than a lobotomized goldfish is simply unacceptable. if you won't fix the ai then at least make it so modders can fix it.
 
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Kuronan

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Considering that create_new_species is 600 lines of code, would it be better if, in the future, all robots were made one species in a future update? it did always frustrate me in play when there are 20+ individual robot species I had to scroll though and no way to mass convert them into one specific template...
 
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CrazyJ

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Considering that create_new_species is 600 lines of code, would it be better if, in the future, all robots were made one species in a future update? it did always frustrate me in play when there are 20+ individual robot species I had to scroll though and no way to mass convert them into one specific template...
that would make sense, they don't do things that make sense
 
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