Stellaris Dev Diary #176 - Habitat Tiers

Stellaris Dev Diary #176 - Habitat Tiers

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Andy_Dandy

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That 15% does add up if played well.
Indeed it does. And Habitats are very efficient alloy producers, especially combined with their easy to come by tech so you can rush the ability to go tall on alloy prod easely. You can upgrade the alloy plant one level without any capital building on your habitat, and with ten pops and first capital building you can already build level 3 alloy plants - and early specialize a habitat for alloy prod en masse.

Those people claiming Void Dwellers need cheaper Habitats don't have a clue.
 
Last edited:

SeekingEtermity

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... The 15% is meaningful for alloys, which have fewer bonuses, but it's still additive with the bonuses from techs, governor levels, stability, (other) traits, Ministry of Production, etc. You also only get it from your main species, and - especially if you take Voidborne - once you have any other species in your empire your void dwellers will lose their monopoly on habitat jobs.

Indeed it does. And Habitats are very efficient ally producers, especially combined with their easy to come by tech so you can rush the ability to go tall on alloy prod easely.
Also not sure what you mean by habitats being "very efficient alloy producers". Habitats cost 5 alloys/month in upkeep, plus the 3000 each to build and 200 each to colonize; they start out massively in the hole on alloy production. They don't have any planetary designation making them better at alloy production than anything else. They don't have an inherent production rate bonus the way ecus or gaias do. They don't have alloy-specific districts the way ecus do. They don't have anything, AFAICT, that makes them better than a planet at producing alloys! They strictly lose to ecus and gaias, and are at best equal compared to normal planets. Yes, the Void Dweller trait makes a sizeable difference, but you need 11 (and a bit) metallurgists before the extra 15% they each get from being Void Dweller equals the 5 alloys a month that you lose just for having the habitat. Sure, 11 isn't a huge number once you have the upgraded buildings, but still, I'd hardly call it an efficient way to do things! Especially not when ecus exist.
 

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Indeed it does. And Habitats are very efficient alloy producers, especially combined with their easy to come by tech so you can rush the ability to go tall on alloy prod easely. You can upgrade the alloy plant one level without any capital building on your habitat, and with ten pops and first capital building you can already build level 3 alloy plants - and early specialize a habitat for alloy prod en masse.

Those people claiming Void Dwellers need cheaper Habitats don't have a clue.
I don't want cheaper habitats. The midgame settlement crunch is a fun aspect of the playstyle the origin creates. I just want the traditions that *seem* like they should do something for Habitats to actually do something, even if it's fairly modest. With the ability to make Housing districts and two free building slots from the perk, making housing tech and traditions affect Habitation districts actually is much *less* impactful than it used to be.
 

Andy_Dandy

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... The 15% is meaningful for alloys, which have fewer bonuses, but it's still additive with the bonuses from techs, governor levels, stability, (other) traits, Ministry of Production, etc. You also only get it from your main species, and - especially if you take Voidborne - once you have any other species in your empire your void dwellers will lose their monopoly on habitat jobs.


Also not sure what you mean by habitats being "very efficient alloy producers". Habitats cost 5 alloys/month in upkeep, plus the 3000 each to build and 200 each to colonize; they start out massively in the hole on alloy production. They don't have any planetary designation making them better at alloy production than anything else. They don't have an inherent production rate bonus the way ecus or gaias do. They don't have alloy-specific districts the way ecus do. They don't have anything, AFAICT, that makes them better than a planet at producing alloys! They strictly lose to ecus and gaias, and are at best equal compared to normal planets. Yes, the Void Dweller trait makes a sizeable difference, but you need 11 (and a bit) metallurgists before the extra 15% they each get from being Void Dweller equals the 5 alloys a month that you lose just for having the habitat. Sure, 11 isn't a huge number once you have the upgraded buildings, but still, I'd hardly call it an efficient way to do things! Especially not when ecus exist.
You can as I described very fast go tall on the alloy production as void dwellers by tech rushing rare motes and the advanced alloy production plants. You can also upgrade these plants alot earlier on a habitat then on a planet. Only 10 pops required before you can upgrade the alloy plant to tier 3. - And with 3 starting habitats you can specialize your "planets" alot earlier, easier and more efficient then anyone else.

No origin can rush both tech and alloys the way Void Dwellers can.

And by the way, we are talking Void Dwellers here, and the earlier stages of the game - Let's say first 30-40 years rushing as much tech/alloys as possible. Ecumenopolises have no relevance at this stage.
 
Last edited:

PedroLuiz

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You can as I described very fast go tall on the alloy production as void dwellers by tech rushing rare motes and the advanced alloy production plants. You can also upgrade these plants alot earlier on a habitat then on a planet. Only 10 pops required before you can upgrade the alloy plant to tier 3. - And with 3 starting habitats you can specialize your "planets" alot earlier, easier and more efficient then anyone else.

No origin can rush both tech and alloys the way Void Dwellers can.

And by the way, we are talking Void Dwellers here, and the earlier stages of the game - Let's say first 30-40 years rushing as much tech/alloys as possible. Ecumenopolises have no relevance at this stage.
And don't forget that if you have droids you can easily rush a ecumenopolis anyway with void dwellers
 

PedroLuiz

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food taking up build slots.
Is it really worth it to not buy food as a void dweller nowadays given the current state of the AI? (not having energy and therefore deflating all prices) after all energy is more useful than ever specially if you're the galatic market leader (food is in my games(commodore difficulty) 0.8 EC and minerals 0.6 EC, even alloys are 1.8EC)
 

Andy_Dandy

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And don't forget that if you have droids you can easily rush a ecumenopolis anyway with void dwellers
Indeed yes. You really should go for Ecumenopolises if you come over planets nearby, but perhaps not prioritizing rushing them? - But perhaps you should since your economy and mining output can become pretty strong early on. Prepare an Ecumenopolis planet or two for tradition perk 3 already.
 
Last edited:

Hemothep

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@Eladrin could the habitation districts of habitats please get the same amount of maintenance drones for gestalts as their planet side counterparts get?

2 maintenance drones per habitation district means habitats for gestalts are swimming in housing, but can only put very few drones on them either way, because there is no longer a good building to get amenities.

Without any meaningfull amenities building the 3 to 4 maintenance drones from nexus or hive districts are barely enough to stay positive. 2 means you can't realy use any district type on habitats other than habitation districts, which turns them into very expensive ways to get building slots and nothing else.
 

Shadeseraph

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This does get me fired quite a lot. Void Dwellers is my favorite origin, and any boost and gameplay expansion to it is very much welcome.

The lack of housing buildings in particular is specially painful right now - it sets a very harsh limit on population on the habitats right now
 

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Overkill Engine

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Easy solution to the district number limit for moon deposits: Have rare moon deposits add the ability to construct extraction buildings (including new ones for nanites etc.), but in numbers limited by the number and size of the deposits. For basic resource deposits, simply multiply their output based on habitat tier. This would continue the tradition of "building a habitat over a deposit lets you exploit it more effectively", like how mining habitats have a much higher potential mineral output than the deposits they're built over.
I was about to suggest something similar for utilizing moons; instead of districts based on planetary deposits, the deposits instead open up the ability to construct a habitat unique building (Mining bay?) for each resource type total present on the planet and its moons. The mining bay effectively overwrites/replaces any mining stations built on those moons, and grants job slots for pops related to the resource type and base amount. This means one is making the decision to trade in the automated mining station and the associated bonuses for pop and job driven bonuses, but one can also choose NOT to do this if one wishes, as the bays have their own specific upkeep costs and the mining stations might be more economical at the time.


For example:

Object Example III, gas giant (uninhabitable / no deposit) [Habitat built here]
Object Example IIIa, moon (uninhabitable / mineral deposit, 3)
Object Example IIIb, moon (uninhabitable / mineral deposit 1)
Object Example IIIc, moon (uninhabitable / energy deposit, 2 )

The habitat can build both a mineral extraction bay that gives 4 mineral harvesting jobs at base and an energy extraction bay that gives 2 energy harvesting jobs. These buildings can be upgraded to increase the jobs slots multiplier and the jobs receive related bonuses from tech that planetary jobs do.

And if you really want to solidify Habitats as custom built to spec for their location, add in the ability to build habitat unique buildings based on the planet orbited and its moon types. Then Habitats built over worlds without specific resource deposits won't feel like an automatic waste.

Plus it makes no sense that we can for example harvest materials from a nebula via starbase module, but cannot siphon gases from a gas giant or minerals/alloys from a molten world.
 

Spoing00

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I absolutely love habitats, the current changes were the reason to return from EUIV to stellaris.
I Know that it is much work to make major changes only for this tiny bit of the game so I had some thoughts how to improve them with as little work as possible.
I split my post into two areas, so no one has to read the long version if he is not interested.

Short version:
1) Insane specialization: Giving the habitat an extreme bonus for the planetary specialization. F.e. making a trade habitat gives you an additional merchant job for all trade districts.

2) Make unique planetary decisions for habitats

3) Making random events. Either on creation or as a planetary decision giving each habitat either planetary features or modifiers


Long version:
1) The best thing on habitats is that you can have lots of them and specialize them for your needs, so increasing the designation bonus would be a good way to improve the play style without making major changes to the game balance and could be easy implemented.
You could have the current bonus for small habitats, a different bonus for the normal ones and both for the improved habitats. This would make the bad districts far more useful and it would force players to plan far in advance since this play style is not very adaptive.

my suggestions for the Tier2 bonus:
Habitat: (no current bonus) 20% reduced pop housing usage
Trade Station: replace one clerk jobs from a trade district with a merchant job
Research Station: replace one scientist jobs from a science district with a science director
Fortress Station: No upkeep for stationed armies.
Foundry Station: minus 20% upkeep for metallurgist buildings
Factory Station: minus 20% upkeep for artisan buildings
Refinery Station: Refineries create an additional job
Generator Station: Technician produce +1 energy
Mining Station: miners produce +1 minerals
Leisure Station: 20% growth modifier (or giving the Leisure district an additional medical worker)


2) Giving Habitats more planetary time limited decisions will give advantage to a play style with many small worlds, since you can transform your resources into other benefits.
For example, the "Encourage Planetary Growth" decision allows you transform 1000 food into 0.9 pop over a decade.
So making similar decisions for every resource or some unique effects would be awesome.

my suggestions:
1000 minerals for "encourage habitat enhancement" for 4unity for the capital building (transform 1000 minerals into 480 unity)
1000 Energy for "encourage habitat wealth" for +10 stability (giving 5% production bonus or 600% of base production)
500 Alloys for "Voidborn engineers" for every pop produces 1 engineering research. (Transforming 2000 energy worth of goods into 120 research per pop)
300 consumer goods for "encourage starting a new life" for a fix -5 to migration. (Transforming 600 energy worth of goods into 6 resettlement over time, giving growth bonus for migration)
Or even a decision the other way around:
"Low gravity work" make a contract with local production companies to have gravity better suited for profit than for habitability getting 1000 energy for -10 habitability. Making use of the fact that you are over 100% if you pick the viodborne perk and have no foreign species on your habitat

3) giving every habitat the possibility to get a good and a bad "special district" and/or a modifier could force the creator to rethink its specialization. Maybe create both on creation and give a planetary decision to reroll them. Could even be really expensive, like 1000 alloys
This would certainly give me a gambling addiction.


Little addition, I didn't know that you could build on other resources and get special bonuses. Making habitats far better for rare resources.
 

majikero

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So the inward perfection has the 1 free building as a tradition. It really makes a huge difference. I can't wait to get the 2 building slots from the new voidborne changes.
 

Matt516

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Jun 1, 2017
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Could you look into another solution for void dwellers not liking planets? The subspecies solution isn't really ideal. The subspecies sometimes grows on your normal habitats and you can genemod the planet ones to be the regular ones. It would also be nice if void dwellers wouldn't hate living on ring worlds.Isnt that just a gigantic habitat?
A ring-world is more akin to living on a planet in terms of environment - wide open outdoor areas. A habitat is explicitly much more of an urban type environment, so it make sense that a population used to habitats would still be uncomfortable on a ring-world.
 
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Methone

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Oct 27, 2018
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Is this also going to address the issue of AI empires building habitats and not colonizing them?
Wasn't that already addressed? I specifically remember that bug being mentioned in some patch note or another, 2.6.X