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Mar 18, 2016
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We're back! Good morning and welcome to Stellaris Day -28! Today we're going to talk about straight-up nonsense which cannot possibly exist and which violates everything we know about galaxies.

Please meet Hoag's Object.
billboard.jpg

(Image used courtesy of Cornell.)

I'm not saying that it was definitely formed by witches. As a scientist I can't say that, since we haven't observed clear evidence of their activity and since other possibilities exist. (Necromancers, for example.) However, my suspicion is that it was witches.

If you're not an astrophysicist, you may not understand why I am freaking out this badly over this galaxy. Let me explain.

Most galaxies are either elliptical or spiral (or lenticular, but they aren't important here.) Elliptical galaxies don't have much dust or gas in their halo, and are composed of mostly old stars blobbed together without much structure. Spiral galaxies have large amounts of dust and gas which leads to many new, young stars. They have beautiful and elegant "arm" structures which reach out from the core.

Hoag's Object has a bright yellow core which is composed of older stars, like an elliptical galaxy. However it also has a ring of young stars surrounded by a huge disc of gas, like a spiral galaxy.

So is it a combination of the two? No. The older core is almost perfectly spherical, which is basically unknown in elliptical galaxies; and the outside is ring-shaped instead of arm-shaped, which... look at it! Just look at it! That doesn't happen by accident. Something is up here.

Witch-hysteria aside, how could it have formed?

Ring-shaped galaxies aren't entirely unknown. (If you look hard at the picture you can actually see another of them through the gap in Hoag's Object; it appears red in that picture.) In most cases they occur because of collisions between galaxies. If a smaller galaxy acted like a "bullet" and plowed into the middle of a spiral galaxy at high speed, it would push the stars outwards in a huge but very slow wave, and leave only an outer ring separated from what's left of the core.

We don't think this is what happened with Hoag's Object. For one thing, the core stars of Hoag's Object are much older than the stars in the ring. For another thing, the cores of spiral galaxies aren't perfectly spherical like Hoag's Object's core is.

There's also the small matter that we can't spot anything that could have been the "bullet." Tracking the motion of galaxies through space isn't that hard - they're not small and they tend to move in steady directions - but there's nothing we can find. It couldn't just have disappeared.

Arthur Hoag, its discoverer and namesake, suggested that Hoag's Object was actually an optical illusion caused by the "gravitational lensing" of a massive black hole. This was plausible when he suggested it in 1950 and would be a neat solution but we've since confirmed that it isn't the case.

Noah Brosch suggested another method: it could have been a bar galaxy (a type of spiral galaxy that's growing more common as the galaxy ages) which had its centre fall apart and had the spirals drift outwards into a ring. However, this would also result in a disc-shaped core rather than the spherical core we see here, and even Brosch has admitted that this is unlikely given what we know of bar galaxies.

Ultimately we just don't know.

Don't leave me in suspense here! Was it witches, or indeed something less silly like aliens?

I'm not saying that it was witches. I'm also not saying that it wasn't. All I'm saying is, keep a bucket of water handy if you go there.

All silliness aside, Hoag's Object leaves us with exactly two possibilities: We either know a lot less about galaxy formation than we thought we did, or there's something out there which can shift stars around in ways we couldn't even dream of. Neither is a nice thought.

Previous Thread: Star Types
Next Thread: The Twins, Part One
 
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I love learning about stuff we don't understand. Thank you again for doing this, space donuts are great!
 
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Bravo! Thanks for showing us that!
 
Well, i smell a Nobel or two coming to the fellow who solves the mystery.
But it is kind of sad- there is a whole universe full of mysteries and here i am, stuck on this planet :S
 
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I am not astrophysicist, but could it be that the centre stars gravitational pull would have over time made tha stars close to it to an spiral orbit closing the center star with every cycle thus increasing the mass in the centre and possibly even the centre star by collapsing stars to it when stars get too close in their orbit. Increasing center mass would in turn increase gravitational pull leading to a cycle in which the stars further and further from the center would be affected and be derailed to an spiral orbit towrds the center. Still the gravitational pull wouldn´t be enoug to collapse the hole galaxy at once.

We can see some spiral shapes in the ring which could be the remnants of the galagtic arms and there are some stars in the void ring between the center and tha ring that could be stars sliding towards the central mass.

ofcourse as I said I am not astrophysicist and might not have considered all things that could be affecting this thing, but that is just my hypothesis of what might be behind the anomaly.
 
is it possible that the sphere was gravitationally captured by the ring? or vice versa?
 
Hey BeautifulVoid,
I've seen your series for the first time today, and I wanna give you a massive thank you! It's a really interesting read and fuel for my imagination. Went back to Crab nebula so far.. oh boy there is just so much out there, too bad we're all born too early before we somehow manage to overcome physics and just fly around there. Space tourism for the win ;-)
 
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Does the ring orbit the central mass of stars, or do they just happen to co-exist?

It could possibly be that this is some sort of galactic collision-event that ended up with the older galaxy capturing the younger one? And due to gravity-effects, the older one has been "compressed" from a elliptical galaxy into its current spherical shape? Or is the "void" between the galaxies comrpised of "dark matter" ? ;)
 
I am not astrophysicist, but could it be that the centre stars gravitational pull would have over time made tha stars close to it to an spiral orbit closing the center star with every cycle thus increasing the mass in the centre and possibly even the centre star by collapsing stars to it when stars get too close in their orbit. Increasing center mass would in turn increase gravitational pull leading to a cycle in which the stars further and further from the center would be affected and be derailed to an spiral orbit towrds the center. Still the gravitational pull wouldn´t be enoug to collapse the hole galaxy at once.

We can see some spiral shapes in the ring which could be the remnants of the galagtic arms and there are some stars in the void ring between the center and tha ring that could be stars sliding towards the central mass.

ofcourse as I said I am not astrophysicist and might not have considered all things that could be affecting this thing, but that is just my hypothesis of what might be behind the anomaly.

Hi Khelder!

I'm about to make a huge and possibly unforgivable simplification but I hope it helps: In space, it's more useful to think of gravity as being a force that makes things orbit one another rather than a force which pulls things towards one another. If a star is orbiting the centre of the galaxy then it will stay in that same orbit forever unless something disturbs it. Therefore, the centre of Hoag's Object wouldn't have made the stars spiral down towards it unless something was acting to slow them in their orbit.

When something acts to slow their orbit then we do see a spirally-downwards trajectory. The best example of this is satellites which orbit the earth close enough to have very small wisps of the atmosphere in their path. These don't stop them but exert enough drag to slow them down, just in the way you describe. However, we have no evidence of anything that could have caused this whilst leaving both the core and the outer ring intact.

You're right that the outer ring of Hoag's Object does have intriguing shapes which could be the remnants of galactic arms. Many people, including Arthur Hoag himself, saw this as evidence that it was once a spiral galaxy. However, most spiral galaxies have cores which are full of hot, young, large stars, which is not what we see here. This adds to the puzzle.

is it possible that the sphere was gravitationally captured by the ring? or vice versa?

The ring capturing the sphere would be very unlikely, but the sphere capturing the ring is a reasonable hypothesis. However, it would have had to be built up over a number of captures rather than a single one, which is certainly unusual. It also doesn't explain why the outer stars got captured as a single perfect ring surrounded by an immense disc of dust and gas. That structure is so perfect and vivid that we've never seen anything like it result from a capture scenario.

That said, it's not as if there's an orthodoxy on the matter. You will probably find people in academia who agree with you.

Type III civilisation confirmed.

I know you're joking, but some days I actually agree with you.

Hey BeautifulVoid,
I've seen your series for the first time today, and I wanna give you a massive thank you! It's a really interesting read and fuel for my imagination. Went back to Crab nebula so far.. oh boy there is just so much out there, too bad we're all born too early before we somehow manage to overcome physics and just fly around there. Space tourism for the win ;-)

You're very welcome! If you have a favourite thing in space then please let me know, and I'll cover it sometime between now and D-0.

I think we're born at exactly the right time. We may never go to space, let alone travel the stars, but we are living exactly at the period where humanity is beginning to get really good at searching out other planets. This is the most interesting thing that humanity has ever done, and it allows us to lay the groundwork for the future.

If we ever manage to overcome physics, I shall be sad. I like physics.

Does the ring orbit the central mass of stars, or do they just happen to co-exist?

It could possibly be that this is some sort of galactic collision-event that ended up with the older galaxy capturing the younger one? And due to gravity-effects, the older one has been "compressed" from a elliptical galaxy into its current spherical shape? Or is the "void" between the galaxies comrpised of "dark matter" ? ;)

The ring and the core both orbit their shared centre of gravity, which is inside the core.

The "void" between the two has some stars in it, actually, as well as a lot of dust and gas. If you look at Hoag's Object using radio or infrared astronomy then the "ring" effect isn't nearly as vivid or as beautiful.

If the void was comprised of dark matter, we wouldn't be able to detect it at all - "dark" is astronomer-speak for "we know it's out there somewhere but we have no idea where."
 
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What is the age of the younger stars and older stars, and how large is the age gap?

Do we know the dynamic of their orbit in its local cluster, as such, can we extrapolate its original path?
 
What is the age of the younger stars and older stars, and how large is the age gap?

Do we know the dynamic of their orbit in its local cluster, as such, can we extrapolate its original path?

The core stars are about 10 billion years old or older. Most of the outer stars are around 2 billion years old, and there is evidence of ongoing star formation there.

As for the local cluster: I'm afraid we're out of luck there. Hoag's Object is pretty isolated. The nearest galaxy (CGCG 135-050) is 3 million parsecs away, which is a long way. This adds to the mystery.
 
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Post forever.
 
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The age of the core makes me wonder another thing... (this is the upside of not being a thorough-bred astrophysicist, you don't know the limitations ;) )
Could this core have undergone some sort of event billions of years ago that threw out insane amounts of stellar matter that eventually got recaptured and is now acting as a young galaxy? I'm thinking "super-nova" on a galactic scale here...
 
The core stars are about 10 billion years old or older. Most of the outer stars are around 2 billion years old, and there is evidence of ongoing star formation there.

As for the local cluster: I'm afraid we're out of luck there. Hoag's Object is pretty isolated. The nearest galaxy (CGCG 135-050) is 3 million parsecs away, which is a long way. This adds to the mystery.

10 Billion is rather old, so could it not be that the galaxy is formed from one of the early stars from the primordial era, that lived past its date. Then it blew up and in the absence of other gravitational forces collapsed back to a spherical shape? Though this would mean that it contains much less % of heavy material, the ring is far thicker than normal, and that the orbital characteristics on the cloud are indicative of this. (I deal with spectrography not stellar physics so I could be grasping at straws)
 
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10 Billion is rather old, so could it not be that the galaxy is formed from one of the early stars from the primordial era, that lived past its date. Then it blew up and in the absence of other gravitational forces collapsed back to a spherical shape? Though this would mean that it contains much less % of heavy material, the ring is far thicker than normal, and that the orbital characteristics on the cloud are indicative of this. (I deal with spectrography not stellar physics so I could be grasping at straws)

If you're a spectrographer then you might enjoy this paper by Finkelman et al. Brosch is on it, naturally. It answers that question far more fully than I could here.

What's that? A place full of this?

1300_5b.jif

4133YQ0GCRL.jpg


The age of the core makes me wonder another thing... (this is the upside of not being a thorough-bred astrophysicist, you don't know the limitations ;) )
Could this core have undergone some sort of event billions of years ago that threw out insane amounts of stellar matter that eventually got recaptured and is now acting as a young galaxy? I'm thinking "super-nova" on a galactic scale here...

The core has a lot of stars in it. It is unlikely that such an event would occur and not destroy those stars.
 
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