I really love Stellaris, but if you're looking for a good title to introduce you to the space 4X genre, I'd suggest Master of Orion 2 or the latest Master of Orion Conquer the Stars instead. Then jump into Stellaris.
Stellaris - A Good Entry into Space 4X?
- Thread starter PaulMClem
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Being a fan of the entire Master of Orion series (except for the third game...we don't ever talk about the third game!), I've played a good many 4x games having enjoyed the first two MoO games and the MoO: CtS (it's the fourth game in the series). I've found that Stellaris has a bit of a learning curve and does need some work in some areas, but overall it is a 4x game despite having some grand strategy elements and characteristics in it. I really love the ability to create my own empires and then play against them and seeing how they work. I'm looking forward to the Banks and Utopia update and DLC as they'll add even more stuff to the game. The other good thing about Stellaris is the role playing elements which you don't see in the Master of Orion series much (it's there, you just don't see a lot of it). Stellaris lets you create your own story via the events, the choices you make both before and during the game so that's a huge plus to me.
Stellaris is the first and only 4X game I have ever played. I am turned off by turn-based strategy, so having an RTS element was very nice (former WC3 and Starcraft 1 player). I wouldn't recommend the game without the Leviathan DLC. Utopia DLC is coming in a few weeks, so it might we worth learning before they add more systems to the mix (and change out underdeveloped ones). The game after Utopia will still be 90% the same though, so it would be good to get yourself familiar.
The only mods I like to run are:
Ticking Warscore (allows captured planets to give base + time to warscore, rather than just base ; wars will end much quicker once you start to dominate)
Mass Effect Soundtrack (adds more tracks so you don't listen to the same 10 songs on repeat ; also you won't even tell which songs aren't Stellaris OST, which is fantastic)
There are plenty of other QoL mods and even some that completely rework or add to the game. I just choose to experience it as vanilla as possible.
The only mods I like to run are:
Ticking Warscore (allows captured planets to give base + time to warscore, rather than just base ; wars will end much quicker once you start to dominate)
Mass Effect Soundtrack (adds more tracks so you don't listen to the same 10 songs on repeat ; also you won't even tell which songs aren't Stellaris OST, which is fantastic)
There are plenty of other QoL mods and even some that completely rework or add to the game. I just choose to experience it as vanilla as possible.
Definitely. I just don't want to promise it'll be 50% off just because it has been before.
It seems likely to me though.
Yeah, I think the only reason I love Alpha mod so much is the depth it adds, which is lacking from Vanilla atm - that will change post-Utopia but I think I'll go back to using the Alhpamod once it's been updated for the patch.
Had a quick hour or so and as I hoped the graphics are truly eye-popping. Looking down through one of your ships towards the home planet, amazing! Putting Eye candy to one side for now, assuming I plan to get Utopia, what will be disappearing/changing from the version I have now i.e. what's not worth investigating?
Ethics is getting re-worked. So don't get to used to how it works now like us old farts.
As are various methods of POP management.
Apart from that, much of what is coming in Utopia is "new" stuff (Unity/Ascension etc) alongside the obligatory bug fixes and QoL improvements.
As are various methods of POP management.
Apart from that, much of what is coming in Utopia is "new" stuff (Unity/Ascension etc) alongside the obligatory bug fixes and QoL improvements.
The way you phrased that leaves me with the belief that you've never played a Paradox Grand Strategy Game. Paradox tinkers with their core gameplay. Almost always to its betterment, I'm very happy with the improvements I've seen in other games. But it's not "assuming I plan to get Utopia, what will be disappearing/changing." With Paradox it's "What's going to change for me when Utopia is released, and what's going to be added if I buy the expansion."
Free Changes first.
The population ethos and faction system is getting effectively rebuilt. Populations will only have a single non-fanatic ethos and, as enough of them find their way to an ethos, factions will be founded. The management of those factions will affect your influence income.
Unity is being added as a resource, unity is being used to buy Traditions. If you're familiar with Civilization 6 and it's culture to buy Social Policies, it's basically the same thing. You get enough Unity to buy a Tradition, you get an empire wide bonus. It's easier to gather Unity as a small nation with happy people. Easier to get a lot of Unity with large number of worlds. Not sure how that's going to balance.
Species Rights are being dramatically expanded. Including giving you a way to banish unwanted aliens from your empire without purging them.
You can set up immigration restrictions for your core worlds while leaving sector space open.
Governments have been revamped. Instead of picking one of 15 different choices restricted by your ethos choices, you'll choose your ethos, choose your succession method, that will open up a list of available traits where you get to pick 2. Once you pick your two traits, the whole mess of choices will cause the game to spawn a name for your type of government, which you can change.
If you buy Utopia you'll get
Ascension Perks. These are powerful empire wide bonuses that allow you to better tailor your empire, they include things like; the ability to build mega-structures such as dyson spheres, ring worlds, floating habitats and more; flat bonuses to things like fleet support, number of core systems, and research; and Ascension Perks.
Ascension Paths. Three specialized ascension perks that come in two stages and cause dramatic shifts in your populace. Synthetic Ascension, which is becoming sweet robots. Biological Ascension, which allows you to become gene manipulating mad scientists playing god with your own forms and those of your aliens. Finally, Psionic Ascension, which allows your entire populace to psionically awaken, giving your leaders bonuses and allowing your empire to pierce the enigmatic "shroud."
Purge and Slavery types, it opens up 3 exciting new ways to brutally purge alien populations, and 3 exciting new types of slavery for those disgusting aliens you don't want to purge.
Utopia allows you to indoctrinate primitive natives. You know how you can spend time and effort to raise primitive aliens into the space age? Well, by indoctrinating them first you mold their society to match your ethos which makes finally raising them up far more rewarding.
Utopia allows you to choose three unique traits, Syncretic Evolution which starts you on a planet with two races, yours and a race of dimwitted proles who love to mine and don't like thinking so much. Mechanist's who start with robot technologies and robots working their mines and farms. Or Fanatic Purifiers, who get significant military bonuses, and highly limited diplomatic options.
Finally, Utopia opens up the Hivemind Ethos, which clears away all ethos or individuality and lets you play as a psionic hivemind. Ironically you'll have more diplomatic options than Fanatic Purifiers.
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I'd suggest not playing Alphamod until you're familiar with the base game, since it makes things really confusing and cluttered and you don't want to be learning it at the same time as all the base mechanics.
Personally I prefer some of the less extreme technology extension mods like Crystallis Components and New Ship Types and More.
You rang?
Game is great! I've been playing sci-fi 4x since the 90's. Don't miss this one. Even with warts and all, this one is becoming a classic.
Relatively speaking I haven't. Only around 100 hrs of novice tinkering in EUIV and CK2
Thanks for the patch/DLC info. Much appreciated. Must say I really like the idea of being in on the ground floor (or as near as damn it) on a new game and being able to follow it as it develops. Sadly CK2 is much nearer the end than the beginning, but Stellaris is only starting out on its journey.
Explains your question about learning curve. I only got about 100 hours myself in CK2, unfortunately a combination of being bad with names, and bored with Europe killed my enthusiasm for that game.
Welcome aboard the great Stellaris experience, here's hoping it's as long, winding, and surprising as the journey EU4 has been on for the last 5 years.
Welcome aboard the great Stellaris experience, here's hoping it's as long, winding, and surprising as the journey EU4 has been on for the last 5 years.
Have to be honest and I say I've never truly managed to crack the Space 4X genre. Dabbled with Galactic Civilizations III but not for long. On the surface, Stellaris looks the same sort of thing, apart from one obvious difference i.e. it's made by Paradox. I've watched some Let's Plays and the graphics look stunning. UI also appears clean and functional. Therefore I have a few queries:
1. As someone trying to break into Space 4X would you suggest that Stellaris is a good place to start? Is there enough depth, complexity i.e. things to keep you busy? Is the learning curve shallow enough to allow me to ease myself in relatively gently?
Compared to other Paradox games, Stellaris is pretty simple. Compared to every other space game out there, it's mind-bendingly complex. I'm a huge fan of Moo2/(and even Moo3).. but I definitely prefer Stellaris. So much deeper/better.
2. Would the game be worth playing in its vanilla i.e. free patch but non-DLC, format?
All of the paid stuff is 'content', so all of the 'base improvements' made to the game have been free. So in that, yes.. the 'base/DLC-free' game is perfectly. playable... but the DLC's add so much.
3. Any feel for what the base game will drop to in the next PDX sale? I'd assume there will be one when the Utopia expansion is released?
Don't know, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say the base game will likely drop by at least 33% close to Utopia launch. It's already dropped by that much before, so no reason to think it'd drop by any less at this point. Maybe even more.
Any feedback will be much appreciated, and it might just bring a new player to Stellaris
The great thing about Paradox is the never-ending support. Most studios either abandon the game at launch, (i.e. take the money and run) or put out a half-hearted 'expansion' or 2, and bail. Paradox on the other hand will support their games relentlessly. Their business model is basically the opposite of Early Access.. instead of steady patches pre-launch and then walk away.. it's steady patches post-launch for years, to the point where the game is just insanely deep.
PaulC.
You rang?
Game is great! I've been playing sci-fi 4x since the 90's. Don't miss this one. Even with warts and all, this one is becoming a classic.
Haha - I, of course, include myself in the "old farts" category - I've been playing them as well since the 1990's, since the Amiga 500 or when my dad got our 1st PC (a 486 DX2! oooooh!!)
Indeed... It does add ALOT to the game. Tbh, I'm not looking forward to Utopia for the reason it's going to be a while before Alphamod is updated, meaning I will have to revert to vanilla - a game I haven't played in months.
It's the first Paradox game I have played and I enjoy it way more than the new Master of Orion. It's the most fun I had in such a game since Alpha Centauri(I always go back to it after giving up on the newest Civ game).
As far as whether Stellaris is a good way to get into 4Xs, I'd say most certainly. It was the first 4x I could play, as it was the first I could find that ran on a Mac, and I've quite enjoyed it.
Speaking of Alpha Centauri, I would actually consider that game to be the perfect entry point to the genre. Alpha Centauri is both accessible to new players and deep enough for 4X veterans. If you're specifically looking for a Space 4X as your entry point, though, I would recommend Endless Space instead. Stellaris is a good game, but it isn't really friendly to newcomers to the genre.
Thanks again for all the replies, folks. However, on reflection perhaps I wasn't really looking for the way into Space 4X after all. What I actually wanted was Stellaris....and now I've found it