Stellaris 3.9 "Caelum" Release Date and Feature Highlight Video!

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Not understanding a complaint is not the same thing as it being a lie. 3.8 swapped governors from powerful sector buffers (that you had in every sector) to single planet governors (with only their only boring stat-stick effects spreading to the sector). You used to pick governors for how their traits affected an entire sector, but now their traits affect only one planet.

The sector governor, as an engaging gameplay element, was removed. We have planet governors, council governors, and whether or not to create a sector in which to put a literally faceless stat stick, instead.


I think your opinions matter even though I don't generally play the game the same way as you. But I will keep this fact (that you think perspectives which you don't share are valueless) in mind in the future.


"Addressed" and "resolved" are not the same thing. Bandaid fixes (3.8.4 increased the total number of leaders you could hire before 0 XP by a whopping 12.5% and added Eager leaders which maybe add another 10%) obviously don't resolve the issue. 3.9 makes there no longer be a hard cutoff in XP, which is an important improvement, but the cap is still ultimately a "you don't get to play with the stuff you just bought a DLC to improve". It's ok for small empires, but even after the change it makes non-council leaders a rounding error for large empires.

Even the devs have said they'll keep looking at this, so acting like it's completely resolved and therefore the reviews are invalid is an ...interesting position.


"The devs have doubled down on why they refuse to revert a wildly unpopular change" is exactly the sort of thing that reviews should communicate. The devs are not infallible, so saying "the devs have repeatedly explained why they made a bad decision and stuck with it" isn't a counterargument to the claim that it was a bad decision. It just means the devs are out of touch on this particular issue and refuse to understand the actual impact of the changes they're making.

Ex. Heavily nerfing individual governors in 3.8 by reducing every trait to 1/20 of its previous effect (by only affecting one planet and being split into 3 levels) and then giving you 9 traits instead of 4 is not making individual governors more powerful. If the devs then repeatedly explain that they have to heavily restrict the number of governors you can hire because of how strong they are, it doesn't magically make the numbers change to suddenly not be a nerf to governors. It just reinforced that they made the leader cap change based on false assumptions.

The devs make decisions that players disagree with all the time. That's fine. But there's a reason why this particular change was so unpopular. "I know, let's release a DLC all about improving X, and then cut the number of X that can have so that they're just a rounding error for large empires", in a game with "grow as large as possible via conquest" as a goal for the majority of players, is an obviously bad idea.


While I think the game generally gets better, I'm going to have to disagree with you on whether it always does (3.8 was a major step back). And while I think Stellaris is still definitely worth buying (as evidenced by the fact that I play it so much), I wish you wouldn't take "every review I don't agree with is lying, out of date, or from a person whose opinions don't matter" as the path to get there.

I'm going to preface this by saying I was mostly in favour of the 3.8 changes overall and the goal that they tried to promote - making individual leaders stronger but restricting access, making it hurt more when you lose 1, and requiring players to make difficult choices with regards to where they put their leaders while respecting the leader cap.

Choices that are difficult to make are hallmarks of a game with good strategic decision-making present.

That being said, this clearly isn't going to gel well with people who just want to see big numbers, so it's understandable why these players would be annoyed at the change. Addressing all your points individually:

1) I actually agree with this point about governors chosen traits not applying to whole sectors. I can see that Paradox were trying to double down on "making difficult choices" here, but it's somewhat unintuitive that a governors base effects apply to a whole sector, while their traits don't - I'd be in favour of bringing those back.


2) As said earlier, I can see how people who like seeing big numbers would be upset by leader cap changes. However I don't necessarily consider these people "min-maxers". I tend to think of Min-maxers as just heavily optimising with what's available to them, and regardless of changes that happen in patches, they will look at the new strategies and test new ways to min-max. I think this might have been the point Panzer was trying to make when he said "min-maxers opinions don't matter", although it came across poorly. At the end of the day it's just semantics - point is, people like big number, patch makes number smaller, people sad. It's unfortunate.

3) Based on how paradox have made changes since 3.8 I think it's obvious they are taking player criticism into account - when they say they won't revert a change to things like e.g. Leader cap, it's because there is a very real game design choice behind them. At the end of the day Stellaris IS a strategy game, so if a mechanic changes that makes decisions harder or more meaningful, it is a good change. The problem here is that Paradox overstepped the mark a bit on the "making decisions difficult" point, and also said change is a very big change to come to the game.

There were other reissues with the 3.8 patch but Ive already spoken about them elsewhere and none of it is relevant to what's being talked about here so I won't bring it up.

Besides all that, I'm looking forward to playing the patch when I get a chance.
 
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2) As said earlier, I can see how people who like seeing big numbers would be upset by leader cap changes. However I don't necessarily consider these people "min-maxers". I tend to think of Min-maxers as just heavily optimising with what's available to them, and regardless of changes that happen in patches, they will look at the new strategies and test new ways to min-max. I think this might have been the point Panzer was trying to make when he said "min-maxers opinions don't matter", although it came across poorly. At the end of the day it's just semantics - point is, people like big number, patch makes number smaller, people sad. It's unfortunate.
Nerfing everyone at once would annoy people that like seeing big numbers, but that's not why people are upset. And that didn't even happen: 3.8 continued the tradition of making all players continuously more powerful (making all the fixed timeline portions of the game even more out of sync). I would love if they nerfed everything.

But like you said, people who object to "why didn't this change make my numbers go up even higher" aren't min-maxers. Those are just... different people. And even then... dismiss the opinion, not the people.
3) Based on how paradox have made changes since 3.8 I think it's obvious they are taking player criticism into account - when they say they won't revert a change to things like e.g. Leader cap, it's because there is a very real game design choice behind them. At the end of the day Stellaris IS a strategy game, so if a mechanic changes that makes decisions harder or more meaningful, it is a good change. The problem here is that Paradox overstepped the mark a bit on the "making decisions difficult" point, and also said change is a very big change to come to the game.
This is the point where my opinion diverges from yours, and I disagree vehemently. Making meaningful choices with tradeoffs is good. Which is why the leader cap (in its current form) is bad.

Halfway through the game I have 40 colonies. One of them is affected by governor traits because I have only one governor. How much do my choices of governor traits matter? If each choice is a rounding error, it's basically a cosmetic choice. And the same goes for admirals: if 1/10 of my fleets gets some stat buffs that make it 40% more effective, does it really matter which stats I choose? If I choose poorly and only get half the benefit because the synergy isn't there... I get +2% instead of +4%.

It used to be that I would make many little decisions (which governors/admirals to hire and when to fire/replace them, and by extension whether I got range or sublight speed or upkeep reduction or...), but now I make a few little decisions. The decisions are still little, but now I just make less of them. And if (like me), you just looked at it in bulk ("Do I want to hire all Cautious admirals? Have a mix of Cautious leading artillery and Aggressive leading corvettes?"), then you have the same number of decisions (with fewer clicks needed), but now they're all 1/10 the importance.

The thing that's annoying is that the system works mostly as advertised (ish) for small empires, but becomes irrelevant for large ones. Either you have many leaders that don't level up (aka, no more choices, and no engagement with veteran level content at all), or you have few leaders whose impact is negligible because of their small number. So the system would work just fine, if only it had some way to scale. Hence the dislike for the cap.

The last game I played, once I got big enough, I just stopped hiring leaders as they died of old age or got killed when their ship blew up. The council was set, and beyond that the empire was so big that the leaders didn't matter. 2/3 of the DLC's features down the drain because you're just not allowed to use them in a way that keeps up with your empire, no matter how many resources you're willing to invest.
 
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2)...I think this might have been the point Panzer was trying to make when he said "min-maxers opinions don't matter", although it came across poorly....
Yyyy....esss?

To me there are at least two (wildly) different schools of thought on how to approach Stellaris. On reflection I'd probably call the first school the 'Powergamer' or 'Metagamer' school, which would include the 'Min-Maxers' but isn't exclusively about or of them. This school is all about the detail of the game, and has the people who do the hard number-crunching and theorycrafting.
The second school is what I'd call the 'Thematic' school, which includes the Roleplayers. This school is all about the big picture of the game, rather than the precise mathematical detail. How the stories fit together, how it feels to play, etc. (You might also call this the 'Casual' school, although calling someone a Casual would be staggeringly rude and unacceptable.)

Stellaris has both a strength and a weakness in that it leans into both schools of thought at the same time, because the game doesn't really seem to be clear about which of the two it wants to go with the most. It seems to want to go to both; that's fine, I guess, but does occasionally cause these kinds of... problems.

I'm mostly of the 'Thematic' school myself, but not exclusively. The balance is maybe 25%-33% of '1', 75-66% of '2'. My ideological disagreement with the first is that I consider the extrreme nuts-and-bolts approach to be corrosive to the fun in & of the game, and in the long term, toxic to expectations OF the game. But that's a different discussion, for another time and place.

Where I get particularly annoyed at the more dedicated adherents of the 'Meta' school, however, is when they start saying "X change BAD" and *really double down on it*. If a change they consider to be "BAD" is actually a change I consider "GOOD", then it really gets my goat. The fundamental nature of the 3.8 Leader changes are the textbook example of this (because I concurred with the design ethos the Devs had behind that, even if I agreed that the fine detail of cap numbers etc could really have done with finessing. Hell, I even made a somewhat popular mod which did exactly that finessing!). I feel a bit similar about the 3.9 Habitat changes: some people are (effectively) saying "Habitat changes BAD" and pulling a shocked pikachu face when I say "Nuh-uh, Habitat changes (broadly) GOOD". Neither they nor I are strictly wrong or right, it's a matter of tha tmost troublesome thing - personal taste. But, hey, to every action a reaction...

To be fair when I wrote that previous comment - and even I have to admit that the... inprecision or inadvisibility of my wording on that was a valid point on A's part (in a reply from him otherwise comprising mostly of aggression, disrespect, personal attack and wilful misrepresentation). I was coloured by anger and frustration at seeing the same old silly arguments against the 3.8 Leader changes again, and my admittedly less-than-optimal word choice in that bit specifically was coloured, to a degree, by emotional compromise as a result. I try to be careful with my words but evidently didn't succeed in that part on this occasion. 'Powergamer' would probably be a more appropriate term but, eh, I've edited the post for clarity once, I don't really see the need to dredge it up again by going back to do it again now - this comment can serve as clarification.

I DID originally say "min-maxer opinions don't matter", yes... however, even with the correction I've made (both via the original edit to it, and from this comment), I'd like to point out for the record that that never said nor meant to imply that "everyone else's opinion which I disagree with does not matter", as was falsely attributed to me. Similarly I never said that those min-maxer opinions don't *count* - where 'counting' is "Being heard, being listened to, and having an effect on the evolution of the game", which is self-evident. The edit I made - "min-maxer opinions aren't important to me" - is probably *better* wording in terms of overall accuracy, although even then they are to an extent (in so far as I think they warrant a counterweight).

Anyway, I didn't even want to get drawn into this a second time, and really don't want to again. I don't want to clutter up the thread with heated discussion again, nor get flame again (flame just makes me cross and irrational, and nobody deserves the effects of that), nor make this thread about me nor the fight with A. I have no doubt I'll massively regret this entire comment when it inevitably gets dogpiled with Disrespectfully Disagree's and angry replies when I check on it later, but I sure hope not. I'd much rather talk about nice things, in nice ways.

PEACE! ;)
 
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The last game I played, once I got big enough, I just stopped hiring leaders as they died of old age or got killed when their ship blew up. The council was set, and beyond that the empire was so big that the leaders didn't matter. 2/3 of the DLC's features down the drain because you're just not allowed to use them in a way that keeps up with your empire, no matter how many resources you're willing to invest.
I also had the situation in my last game where I had a leader die and, since they weren't on my council and my empire was bigger now it just wasn't worth my time to replace them. It's at the point now where I probably couldn't even tell which planet/sector/fleet they were on as most of my empire is leaderless.

Looking around and seeing so many empty leader slots makes the game feel broken. It would make for great post-apocalyptic environmental storytelling, this massive unexplained mystery that nobody will talk about that resulted in 95% of the empire's leaders vanishing and remaining forever leaderless.

The leader system now feels like post-WW3 after a hundred billion single-target drones were deployed.
Barely anyone left to run all the previous infrastructure and leaders rarely last long enough to name thanks to hybernating anti-corruption slaughterbots.
"I promise, if elected I will..."
*LIES DETECTED, ACTIVATE DEVASTATING REBUTTAL*

There are different directions leaders could go:
Options:
1. Council positions do almost everything- Head of Research also manages all science ships, Minister of Defense manages all fleets, Governors cover entire sectors with their traits applied fully again.
Mostly this just means that all those empty slots can now point to your council (and traits would need a rework).... but ugly... so many identical faces everywhere.

2. Multiple Tiers or types of leader - common, rare, renown, paragon, or Council/Normal (with more common leaders filling all the current gaps)
A bit of a rolling back of the leader cap system with more 'eagerness' traits and relaxed penalties... could end up with lots of clicks for miniscule benefits.

3. UX/UI changes, removing leader requirements and slots
Every leader slot people aren't filling gets removed as it's obviously deemed worthless.
Leaders stop being needed for every task... but feels like chopping off everything below the head (of Research)

4. Leaders lead groups not individuals
No leaders needed for individual science ships/Planets/Fleets, these are instead assigned to a Department/Sector/Armada that controls them.
Leaders fill new slots: Science Department, Sectors, Armadas (each leader is more important)
Leaders are still limited, traits matter, every ship has someone higher up in charge... could work.
You'd still want some tasks for leaders to level-up... unless leader death/retirement was changed so that only a % of traits and experience is lost when the second in command takes over for any reason.

But, what was the leader rework trying to do?
Reduce micro (fewer leaders)
Make empires feel distinct (more variety)

Add hard choices (can't have everything) I think this is where it falls apart a bit as the choices aren't balanced very well.

A few too many changes were made all at the same time with leaders, some good fixes for specific problems:
1. Limited leader pool and 5 years for refresh completely prevent hiring-and-firing to reroll for the same traits every game
Works well, probably better than my old suggestions of paying influence to refresh the leader pool to stop rerolling.
2. Council positions are a great way to make each empire feel different and leader levels to have different effects for each empire
If anything I want more of them, for federation leadership or Galactic leadership positions
3. Leader Capacity (results in no generals, which isn't fun or sensible)
If the leader capacity was closer to expected leader slots that would be fine... or rather leader capacity wouldn't be needed
4. Soft-cap for Leader Capacity (not fun to have poor XP gain)
If leader capacity was only exceeded to train replacements, not for exploits like 0 Sprawl then unity upkeep would be fine or wouldn't even be needed
5. More leader traits (not fun to have a Slippery Explorer)
If weak leader traits like Slippery came free from other sources (civics, traditions, ascension perks) they wouldn't feel like a waste.
If weak Veterancy options were buffed to be comperable to the empire-wide council paths that could be fine

I'm not sure what the best answers are, just that it doesn't feel right.
I think the problem is that Leader Capacity is finite while Leader Slots are infinite.
This leads to lots of empty slots playing under the cap, or increasing levels of pain going over the cap.

So one option to reduce leader slots to manageable levels:
Leader traits apply to an entire sector (Core Sector, Centauri Sector, Frontier Sector...)
Leader traits apply to groups of science ships (Department of Exploration/Exploitation/Covert Operations...)
Leader traits apply to groups of fleets (First Armada, L-Gate Armada...)
Size of Sectors/Departments/Armadas determine the number of leaders needed

I just hope the Custodians come up with a fun and balanced solution eventually.
 
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This is the point where my opinion diverges from yours, and I disagree vehemently. Making meaningful choices with tradeoffs is good. Which is why the leader cap (in its current form) is bad.

Halfway through the game I have 40 colonies. One of them is affected by governor traits because I have only one governor. How much do my choices of governor traits matter? If each choice is a rounding error, it's basically a cosmetic choice. And the same goes for admirals: if 1/10 of my fleets gets some stat buffs that make it 40% more effective, does it really matter which stats I choose? If I choose poorly and only get half the benefit because the synergy isn't there... I get +2% instead of +4%.

It used to be that I would make many little decisions (which governors/admirals to hire and when to fire/replace them, and by extension whether I got range or sublight speed or upkeep reduction or...), but now I make a few little decisions. The decisions are still little, but now I just make less of them. And if (like me), you just looked at it in bulk ("Do I want to hire all Cautious admirals? Have a mix of Cautious leading artillery and Aggressive leading corvettes?"), then you have the same number of decisions (with fewer clicks needed), but now they're all 1/10 the importance.

The thing that's annoying is that the system works mostly as advertised (ish) for small empires, but becomes irrelevant for large ones. Either you have many leaders that don't level up (aka, no more choices, and no engagement with veteran level content at all), or you have few leaders whose impact is negligible because of their small number. So the system would work just fine, if only it had some way to scale. Hence the dislike for the cap.

The last game I played, once I got big enough, I just stopped hiring leaders as they died of old age or got killed when their ship blew up. The council was set, and beyond that the empire was so big that the leaders didn't matter. 2/3 of the DLC's features down the drain because you're just not allowed to use them in a way that keeps up with your empire, no matter how many resources you're willing to invest.

yeah I can see how this is a problem for people with large, large empires.

I don't object to the idea that this system is more of a help to empires that have less than it is to empires that have more, since Stellaris is often a heavy snowball that encourages map painting and colony spam, so things that help smaller empires do better, or encourage a more sim-city style of gameplay isn't the worst thing in the world (peaceful gameplay SHOULD be supported as well). The leader cap penalties were too harsh in their iteration and I think this is the crux of the point I was trying to make - I supported the goals of 3.8 patch but ultimately did not agree with the execution - the thing is I would prefer to make the new system better than walk it back to the old one.
 
I also had the situation in my last game where I had a leader die and, since they weren't on my council and my empire was bigger now it just wasn't worth my time to replace them. It's at the point now where I probably couldn't even tell which planet/sector/fleet they were on as most of my empire is leaderless.

Looking around and seeing so many empty leader slots makes the game feel broken. It would make for great post-apocalyptic environmental storytelling, this massive unexplained mystery that nobody will talk about that resulted in 95% of the empire's leaders vanishing and remaining forever leaderless.

The leader system now feels like post-WW3 after a hundred billion single-target drones were deployed.
Barely anyone left to run all the previous infrastructure and leaders rarely last long enough to name thanks to hybernating anti-corruption slaughterbots.
"I promise, if elected I will..."
*LIES DETECTED, ACTIVATE DEVASTATING REBUTTAL*

There are different directions leaders could go:
Options:
1. Council positions do almost everything- Head of Research also manages all science ships, Minister of Defense manages all fleets, Governors cover entire sectors with their traits applied fully again.
Mostly this just means that all those empty slots can now point to your council (and traits would need a rework).... but ugly... so many identical faces everywhere.

2. Multiple Tiers or types of leader - common, rare, renown, paragon, or Council/Normal (with more common leaders filling all the current gaps)
A bit of a rolling back of the leader cap system with more 'eagerness' traits and relaxed penalties... could end up with lots of clicks for miniscule benefits.

3. UX/UI changes, removing leader requirements and slots
Every leader slot people aren't filling gets removed as it's obviously deemed worthless.
Leaders stop being needed for every task... but feels like chopping off everything below the head (of Research)

4. Leaders lead groups not individuals
No leaders needed for individual science ships/Planets/Fleets, these are instead assigned to a Department/Sector/Armada that controls them.
Leaders fill new slots: Science Department, Sectors, Armadas (each leader is more important)
Leaders are still limited, traits matter, every ship has someone higher up in charge... could work.
You'd still want some tasks for leaders to level-up... unless leader death/retirement was changed so that only a % of traits and experience is lost when the second in command takes over for any reason.

But, what was the leader rework trying to do?
Reduce micro (fewer leaders)
Make empires feel distinct (more variety)

Add hard choices (can't have everything) I think this is where it falls apart a bit as the choices aren't balanced very well.

A few too many changes were made all at the same time with leaders, some good fixes for specific problems:
1. Limited leader pool and 5 years for refresh completely prevent hiring-and-firing to reroll for the same traits every game
Works well, probably better than my old suggestions of paying influence to refresh the leader pool to stop rerolling.
2. Council positions are a great way to make each empire feel different and leader levels to have different effects for each empire
If anything I want more of them, for federation leadership or Galactic leadership positions
3. Leader Capacity (results in no generals, which isn't fun or sensible)
If the leader capacity was closer to expected leader slots that would be fine... or rather leader capacity wouldn't be needed
4. Soft-cap for Leader Capacity (not fun to have poor XP gain)
If leader capacity was only exceeded to train replacements, not for exploits like 0 Sprawl then unity upkeep would be fine or wouldn't even be needed
5. More leader traits (not fun to have a Slippery Explorer)
If weak leader traits like Slippery came free from other sources (civics, traditions, ascension perks) they wouldn't feel like a waste.
If weak Veterancy options were buffed to be comperable to the empire-wide council paths that could be fine

I'm not sure what the best answers are, just that it doesn't feel right.
I think the problem is that Leader Capacity is finite while Leader Slots are infinite.
This leads to lots of empty slots playing under the cap, or increasing levels of pain going over the cap.

So one option to reduce leader slots to manageable levels:
Leader traits apply to an entire sector (Core Sector, Centauri Sector, Frontier Sector...)
Leader traits apply to groups of science ships (Department of Exploration/Exploitation/Covert Operations...)
Leader traits apply to groups of fleets (First Armada, L-Gate Armada...)
Size of Sectors/Departments/Armadas determine the number of leaders needed

I just hope the Custodians come up with a fun and balanced solution eventually.

I think the issue is, there is a disconnect between 'field leaders' and 'Paragons/councilors'. Field Leaders would be those guys in ships/on planets. The Councilors/Paragons would be...well...councilors and paragons.

There should be two sets of leader caps. One for the 'councilors and paragons' and one for field leaders. Or as Paradox has suggested (But I think could go further with) field leaders shouldn't count towards your 'leader cap' until they reach like level 4 or something. Make it so special resource/cost buffs on leaders don't get anywhere near powerful until level 3 and only get powerful once having too many of them makes it painful and you're forced to dismiss them for 'cheaper leaders'...

Because playing a couple of paragon games, getting zroni/baol precursors makes expansion a pain when you're only allowed like two or three field scientists...

I'd also make 'being a councilor' a job....so that the councilors aren't compelled to be in the field.
 
One approach to the governor shortage issue could be to make sectors bigger as the game goes on, thereby reducing the number of governors needed to cover a sprawling empire - and thereby also making each governor matter more. It can be argued that this change would be in line with the spirit and goals of the leader rework.

"Sector Radius" could start at X, and then be increased by technologies, traditions, ascension perks (and perhaps also civics and relics). For instance:
+1 radius techs: Colonial Bureaucracy, Galactic Bureaucracy, Galactic Administration
+1 radius civics: Efficient Bureaucracy, Franchising (perhaps -1 from Feudal Society?)
+1 radius traditions: Statecraft
+1 radius ascension perks: Imperial Prerogative
(+1 radius for the capital sector?)
(+1 radius per level of the sector capital's capital building, instead of tech bonuses?)
(+1 radius if sector capital is an ecumenopolis or ringworld segment?)

With the sector radius bonuses above, the sector radius would go from X to at least X+3. A dedicated empire that also gets the civic, tradition and ascension perk bonuses would reach a sector size of X+6. Note that the area calculation below is only meant for relative size comparisons, i.e. the area size does NOT necessarily refer to a number of star systems, and also presumes that the circle area can be used to describe relative sector sizes for different sector radiuses. Hyperlane density would obviously have big implications for the actual outcomes.

Sector radius​
Sector area (pi * radius^2)​
1​
3​
2​
12​
3​
28​
4​
50​
5​
78​
6​
113​
7​
153​
8​
201​
9​
254​
10​
314​
 
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Where I get particularly annoyed at the more dedicated adherents of the 'Meta' school, however, is when they start saying "X change BAD" and *really double down on it*. If a change they consider to be "BAD" is actually a change I consider "GOOD", then it really gets my goat. The fundamental nature of the 3.8 Leader changes are the textbook example of this (because I concurred with the design ethos the Devs had behind that, even if I agreed that the fine detail of cap numbers etc could really have done with finessing. Hell, I even made a somewhat popular mod which did exactly that finessing!). I feel a bit similar about the 3.9 Habitat changes: some people are (effectively) saying "Habitat changes BAD" and pulling a shocked pikachu face when I say "Nuh-uh, Habitat changes (broadly) GOOD". Neither they nor I are strictly wrong or right, it's a matter of tha tmost troublesome thing - personal taste. But, hey, to every action a reaction...

I just feel like throwing in here, I'm definitely far more on the thematic side of things myself, and I despise the habitat changes. At least I have some nice thematic environmentalists and a second flavor of space communism to play with now though.
 
I think the issue is, there is a disconnect between 'field leaders' and 'Paragons/councilors'. Field Leaders would be those guys in ships/on planets. The Councilors/Paragons would be...well...councilors and paragons.

There should be two sets of leader caps. One for the 'councilors and paragons' and one for field leaders. Or as Paradox has suggested (But I think could go further with) field leaders shouldn't count towards your 'leader cap' until they reach like level 4 or something. Make it so special resource/cost buffs on leaders don't get anywhere near powerful until level 3 and only get powerful once having too many of them makes it painful and you're forced to dismiss them for 'cheaper leaders'...

Because playing a couple of paragon games, getting zroni/baol precursors makes expansion a pain when you're only allowed like two or three field scientists...

I'd also make 'being a councilor' a job....so that the councilors aren't compelled to be in the field.
I agree it is probably significantly easier to balance traits if leaders can't multitask.

Gestalts feel better to play because their field leaders aren't being offered 0-value traits and the nodes aren't offered 0-value field traits. There's no confusion as to why a trait does nothing, or the wierd meta strategy of training up replacements by having them do completely unrelated tasks that they're terrible at.

Multitasking should be consistent, it's odd that currently the Ruler can't multitask but Head of Research can, making the ruler the weakest leader type (only half their traits can ever apply).

The normal empire traits all feel like they were designed for a Gestalt-like system we don't have. Leaders with lots of effectively blank positive and negative traits that do nothing half the time even when logically they should be having effects... but are blocked from doing anything for fear of double-dipping should they happen to be doing two things at the same time.

It feels odd to have someone described as a Capitalist Trader, or Gifted Collaborator do nothing on the council.
Trader has no trading insights? Collaborator can't collaborate?

While a Principled Fertility Preacher, or Spark of Genius Philomath does nothing in the field.
Preacher doesn't preach? Lose their principles when they're on a planet? Genius is can't open a box (Orbital Speed Demon)?

Why does a leader only get passionate during council meetings? Or forget everything they know about a subject the moment they get into a meeting about it?
Probably because they weren't supposed to be able to be doing both at the same time, but all but the Ruler can multitask so you could double-dip on any bonus.

It feels 'gamey' and the UI is annoying (picking a council member obscures the traits that will be applied rather than obscuring the traits that will not be applied... just to make it slightly harder to see who is who and what they'll do).

There are two approaches:
1. Gestalt-like dividsion of field and council (steps on the toes of gestalts a little bit)
2. All Traits have a field and council effect
e.g. Trader and Investor being merged into a single Trade related trait.

I think the base game without the DLC is probably more balanced for lots of leaders with fewer traits and less micromanagement of individual traits.

Thoughts:
All non-gestalt Traits could have both field and council effects
Multitasking rules could apply similarly to both Ruler and Councillors
Normal leaders could gain one random trait per two levels (like without the DLC) for less micromanagement
Special leaders could gain DLC features (picking traits on level, trait each level, Veteran+Destiny traits, leader capacity) to make Special leaders feel special.
 
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