Steering trade and Collecting

[RiseOrDie]

I am quite confused with this system even after reading the Diary for trade

So I have 2 Merchants as most nations do.

I could use them for collecting from nearby nodes, or I could use them to steer trade towards my country.

now here are the questions:

1. Collecting seems to be better than steering since it brings more income, correct? if yes, then why should I even steer?
2. If I steer in a node and then recall my merchant, does the effect of steering continue there? (in other words do I always need my merchant to be there 24/7, 12months a year, and forever or can I recall him once he steers the right amount?)
3. same question as 2. although regarding collecting. If I play as Austria, and I collect in Wien, after 8 years can I leave Wien and collect elsewhere while the income still pours in or do i need a merchant there all the time?
4. would doing 2. and 3. decrease my trade income? (as in recalling merchants and giving them different missions elsewhere)
5. Could someone show me a video tutorial or even create one out of the demo?

I would really appreciate an in depth youtube tutorial for trade,

 

[Eoino]

1. The more provinces, buildings etc you have in a node, the better your power allowing you to retain more money. So you would try to steer the trade to the node you have the most power in which will likely be your home/capital node.
2. Your merchant has to stay there as far as I know
3. Need to stay there for maximum effect I'd say
4. You would lose the benefit so yes, you would have less income

Thats my understanding of it, might not be 100%, hope it helps.

 

[nasunz]

3.4. Collecting merchant's presence was just 10%.
But your low trade power in other trade node and losing capital bonus(50%) make it more unprofitable.
Steering in other node would be better in some case.

 

[RiseOrDie]

It looks as if steering is quite useless, since you only have 2 merchant you might as well use them to collect from nearby nodes instead of steering, i mean to my understanding why steer 10% extra to your other node and make an extra 1 ducat when you can collect from 2 nodes and make quadruple that

 

[atmafox]

The Byzantium beta AAR went into this:
1. You always collect from your capital if it is a trade node, and get a power boost due to it being your capital. However, if you place a merchant there you get even more power/collection
2. Trade steered on actually amplifies based on your power at the target node. There's some logic to this, as there is more middleman profit along the way. It does leave out the risk of trade being lost, but I suspect that's just abstracted away in the overall value.

Peter E. advised that early game, it's likely best to collect in your capital as your trade distance is going to be limited so you can't use your merchants to fullest effect on some of the more useful distant trade nodes. However, later game it may well be better to just use your natural collection level and then steer trade (such as new world trade) back to your home port if you are so blessed as to have one that is good for new world trade. This is how, for example, NED would get huge amounts of cash out of trade even without a large empire. You also get trade power in a node using light ships, so as your naval force limit goes up you can get some really good power in an area based on your navy. Also means that to really lock down a colony, you may well need to use your navy and not just declare it a mercantilist colony. Which is realistic, smuggling was a thing after all.

Now that said, I haven't deeply experimented with these due to the limited time frame of the demo and my over all feeling of intimidation whenever I first sit down at a paradox game. I'll have another go at it after work, I think, but for now, just reading the forums.

Thanks,
-Atma

 

[siis]

You collect money from your capital trade node even without a merchant. A merchant boosts it a lot. To collect money from other trade notes you need a merchant.

As for steering: as far as I see it, you can only use your trade power in a trade node if a merchant is there (so no use in building tradepower buildings if you don't have merchant there). You get a -50% or so penality if you try to collect money from trade nodes other your capital. So there might be situations where you can collect let's say 2g from a node or steer 5g to your capital.

 

[Diablosrouge]

So let's put up an example.
I built a couple colonies around Manhattan (including) and then I saw a trade node there that generated 5g for some small colonies business. You're saying I'd take more income from that trade node if I'd steer it back to Sevilla as it's my "main" trade node? (playing as Portugal)

 

[machtharry]

Every province you have in a trade node gives you trade power. Some more, some less. You get a big bonus in the tradenote where your capital is.
For example if a tradenode has a value of 10 and the tradepower of all nations combined it 100 means that every tradepower is worth 0.1 ducats.

If you collect that amount now you get 0.1 * tradepower ducats. If you have 10 tradepower you get 1 ducat.
If you steer that amount to your capital the node has an outgoing trade of 1 ducat and your capital trade node has an incoming trade value of 1 * a bonusfactor ducats.
If trade gets steered its value increases but im not sure by what amount.

The problem is now that you dont have 100% of the trade power in your capital (most likely). If you have 50% of all the trade power in that node for example you get 1*bonus*0.5 ducats out of it. The bonus has to be bigger than 2 to make this a good deal for you. I dont think it is but i dont know for sure.
If you have 80% trade power in your capital node you get 1*bonus*0.8 ducats out of it. This means the bonus has to be at least 1.25 to be worth it.

Merchants and trading fleets just produce extra trade power. As im not sure with the numbers and not 100% sure that im not completly wrong i guess you should just try it and do the thing that is better.

Perfect case would be to steer the trade through multiple nodes before collecting it. If you can steer 10 trade through 5 nodes and the bonus factor is for example 1.3 you get an incoming trade of 10 * 1.3^5 = 37,12 which is a huge increase. Problem is that other people will take a part of it on every step. Depending on how big this part is this can get way worse than it looks now.

 

[RiseOrDie]

dont you think 2 merchants is too little?

I mean sure you can get more with ideas and being a merchant republic but I mean overall its too little. It means theres only so much you can do and once you give them jobs; thats it! theres really not much to do apart from constructing trade buildings (which means stronger income so why recall merchant now?) and a bigger navy. then you come every 50 years to check the situation of trade, and thats will be it.

I might be wrong, i dont know

 

[Zarine]

If you don't play the merchant type, there is no reason to be forced to look at it much more, is it?

 

[nasunz]

Steering is transferring trade power to other node.

Austria has poor trade steering ability.
So in the demo age, steering is useless for Austria as you said.

But as trade nation like Venice, I felt it is worth doing especially giving up gold in smaller trade node and getting more in Venetian node.
This trade concept is awesome, because trade nation and non trade nation have different strategy in EU IV.
I expect this flow of money concept would give progress to other Paradox games.

Cheers!

It looks as if steering is quite useless, since you only have 2 merchant you might as well use them to collect from nearby nodes instead of steering, i mean to my understanding why steer 10% extra to your other node and make an extra 1 ducat when you can collect from 2 nodes and make quadruple that

 

[Fantaisie]

You get a big penalty when you try to collect outside your home node. Thats why steering is good.

 

[nasunz]

Maybe not balanced numbers in late game.
But just in Demo, we can't decide this :sad:

I rather felt 2 diplomats for Austria, HRE was a problem.
HRE need diplomat bonus

dont you think 2 merchants is too little?

I mean sure you can get more with ideas and being a merchant republic but I mean overall its too little. It means theres only so much you can do and once you give them jobs; thats it! theres really not much to do apart from constructing trade buildings (which means stronger income so why recall merchant now?) and a bigger navy. then you come every 50 years to check the situation of trade, and thats will be it.

I might be wrong, i dont know

 

[MylesSCP]

For the Ottomans in the demo I can collect 0.96 vs steer 1.04 in Crimea, which with 71% looks like a win for collecting, but because you create more income than you just collect the income in Constantinople goes from 5.04 to 6.25. I suspect steering will be very useful the later in the game you go, especially since you only collect at 50% efficiency outside you capital trade node.

 

[RiseOrDie]

Maybe not balanced numbers in late game.
But just in Demo, we can't decide this :sad:

I rather felt 2 diplomats for Austria, HRE was a problem.
HRE need diplomat bonus

no there will be 2 merchants and 2 diplomats even in the final game. Ideas will give you more depends what you focus on.

But thats the point, I am sure the team has tested and found out that 2 is the most balanced.

What would happen if lets say we increase/mod merchants to 3, would that knock the the balance out of the game if everyone had 3 merchants?

 

[Diablosrouge]

You'll be able to increase the slots accordingly to the national ideas you take tho.

 

[barretta]

Playing as portugal. I didn't find 2 as a limitation in 1500 mind you. I was using ships to steer the various nodes and the 2 merchants to collect (Gibraltar and Mauritania) I was grabbing all african trade before it reached europe and the penalty was more than offset because no one else had much power.

As far as trade distance it is broken. I could place a merchant in Malacca if I wanted to.

However maybe someone can shed light on market share. With the goods constantly moving I am not sure how this is calculated.

 

[RiseOrDie]

How do you steer using ships?

All i could do with my ships was protect trade of where my merchants were placed.

 

[Hiiri]

How do you steer using ships?

All i could do with my ships was protect trade of where my merchants were placed.

Well, that's exactly how. You don't steer, but you can assist your merchant in steering by increasing trade power with your ships protecting trade lanes.

 

[Emperor Marcus]

Well, that's exactly how. You don't steer, but you can assist your merchant in steering by increasing trade power with your ships protecting trade lanes.

Doesnt this also have an effect then on collection since your increasing your trade power n the node.