Steel Division attracted quite a different group of players vs Wargame

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Fade2Gray

Second Lieutenant
13 Badges
Jan 9, 2017
137
20
  • Magicka
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Of course it was. Because I can literally say something like "The Sky is Blue" and you would pretend it's an insult to the "Wargame Community". Expecting broken logic and feigned offense is completely expected from the "Wargame Community" at this point.

In short, thank you for simply confirming that the Wargame Community is really just a pile of salty players starving for attention which is why they keep trying to claim that they "killed" Steel Division or their "suggestions" can fix it.



Uh-huh. And yet you twisted "Steel Division tried to revive a dead genre and failed" into "The WG community was insulted"!

Sorry, but what this tells me is that you're the one who's bitter here. I didn't say the WG community was lazy. The WG community was irrelevant. Meaning whether they didn't matter even if they helped or hated.

The point is they didn't want to migrate because they didn't want to change games. That has nothing to do with laziness or bitterness. People are people. This is why WoW is still alive.

If you're mad that they're irrelevant then maybe they should take a long, hard look at how Wargame crashed and burned years ago and have been reduced to whining about other games. Or better yet if you're mad because I "insulted" you and that "community" then maybe you should realize how idiotic it is to be feel insulted by someone saying that the sky is blue.
Why am I not surprised that you ignored 99% of what I posted and just cherry picked a few things, then invented more rubbish? You pretty much proved me right, you are just bitter and out to bash the "in" thing to bash, ie the Wargame community. All you have to offer is theorycrafting and subtle attempts at bashing, and when others call you out on it and explain why you are wrong?

LOL I could say the sky is blue and you'd be offended!

Heh, do you have any more fallacies to throw out? Any more childish rants to go on? Any more theories to dream up because you are upset that your carefully put together attempt at looking smart got picked apart and exposed as garbage and mere mud slinging? That all you could do is make up more nonsense and try to insult others even more speaks volumes.

Your response reeks of a deep bitterness and hatred at people who have nothing to do with how your game flopped. Please, tell me more about how I don't want to learn a new game that is overwhelming similar to Wargame. :rolleyes:

Grow up, you are not some intellectual, and that you went from subtle to blatant attacks damns you as a mere troll.
 
Last edited:

Drrty-D

First Lieutenant
2 Badges
Mar 1, 2017
207
0
www.youtube.com
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
This is more Wargame players trying to pretend the world only exists to insult them.
6G1rl.gif
 

Archonsod

First Lieutenant
152 Badges
Jan 11, 2008
293
45
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Impire
  • War of the Roses
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Legio
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Galactic Assault
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
You're disagreeing that multiplayer RTSs are dead by saying all multiplayer games are niches anyway. Not really sure why you are bothering to disagree.
It's the multiplayer element which is niche, not necessarily the multiplayer games - UT2004 was designed from the ground up as a multiplayer game, but the vast majority of players never actually went online. I suspect the ratio is probably radically different for something like SD given the fifteen years gap and the different genre, but I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of players were still largely offline. If indeed the largest influx of players comes from the Paradox side rather than Eugen's previous titles this may well be the case, the offline community for most of the grand strategy titles tends to be significantly larger than the multiplayer community.
I would argue that DoW3 (and some of the recent sequels like Civ 6) were not radical redesigns from the core formula, and yet there has been a lot of disproportionate complaints from the existing fanbase about these changes.
I don't think there's ever been a game released which hasn't seen some portion of the community moan about it, but as the old adage goes it's the money that talks. Take2 announced Civ 6 was the fastest selling entry into the series so far, whereas Relic have acknowledged DoW 3 has massively underperformed. In terms of the design I don't think you can really argue Civ 6 was a radical departure - Firaxis have an iterative policy of thirds (one third the same, one third 'fixes' and one third new). DoW 3 ostensibly tries to marry the gameplay from DoW 1 and DoW 2, but I think that may have been a flawed premise to begin with.
The simpler reality is that people are people. When they invest time in something, they will continue to support it because migrating will "undo" all of that time investment.
There's certainly an element of that, particularly when it comes to something that's more an incremental update than a different game. However I'd also suggest it's therefore on the designer to come up with a game good enough to overcome that inertia.
 

Sleksa

Private
21 Badges
Mar 3, 2017
14
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • BATTLETECH
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
"And note this is a recurring issue with multiplayer RTSs. There is a reason why the best-selling RTS on Steam is Age of Empires 2 HD, and why we are getting Starcraft remastered. Learning to play an RTS and getting good at it is hard. Most players who buy an RTS never get to this level and drop it after a few weeks, going back to Civ 5 or CS: Go or Total War."

Uh-huh. So you decided to rant to try and "disprove" me... yet you admitted you kept switching RTS games just as I say most players are inclined to do.

Honestly I have a hard time understanding what exactly it is you're saying and why you're being so defensive. Anyway you basically said a lot of people don't became good at a rts game (eg steel division), get frustrated about their lack of skill and leave to play something else that they've played for a long time and are assumed to be better at.

To that I replied that the assumption is moronic and untrue in my part, since after trying SD out I went to try out another rts game I've never played before (openra) and have been playing it since, along with age of empires. I'm also fairly bad in all of those games, much as I was bad at wargame, but the latter have been able to keep me interested far longer than SD. You may cite whatever reasons you want like wargame players having a babyrage fit about the game departing from old mechanics and being unable to adapt or whatever other high fantasy stuff you can come up with, but the truth is that sd for a lot of people (including but likely not excluded to me) was simply an unimpressive game.

The whole "nationalism makes the game more toxic" angle is just more nonsense peddled by the WG community to try and make their game feel more special; just as the whole "I don't like the theme" bit is largely a non-issue. Most WG owners don't even own any other Cold War games.

So the wargame community babies who can't adapt are trying to make their game feel more special by trying to show off what a toxic community they have? :rolleyes:
 

Zinegata

General
34 Badges
Oct 11, 2005
1.865
905
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Why am I not surprised that you ignored 99% of what I posted and just cherry picked a few things, then invented more rubbish? You pretty much proved me right, you are just bitter and out to bash the "in" thing to bash, ie the Wargame community. .

First of all, your post was 99% nonsensical to begin with. As I said, you were getting angry over things that were never implied to begin with; so why should I engage someone's delusional accusations? Accusing people of engaging in childish rants is easy. Actually seeing a childish rant disguised as posturing for the moral high-ground and treating it with the contempt it deserves takes a bit of actual knowledge and maturity.

The reality again is very, very simple.

The whole point of the Steam Spy exercise is to show there was very little correlation between Wargame players and Steel Division players to begin with. And indeed, every data point seems to further confirm that hypothesis. Yet, by your twisted logic - I am providing ammunition for those who want to "bash" the Wargame community despite saying the WG community actually didn't matter.

The real issues you have with me is twofold, and it would be a lot less embarrassing for you and your cohorts if you actually addressed these rather than shadow-boxing imagined versions of me. Indeed, that some of your cohorts keep trying to pretend they don't understand my point shows the level of self-deception one has to engage in to try and pretend my conclusions were automatically anti-WG community.

First, as is to be expected on the Internet and your typical entitled Western gamer, you don't like being reminded of how small you are in the grand scheme of things.

Second, and more bluntly - many in the WG "community" took a perverse pride in "killing" SD.

Much of that however blew back in their faces when I simply pointed out that depriving Eugen of revenues through SD probably also killed any chance of having WG4 and not to mention Eugen.

And that idea - judging by the reddit page - is getting a bit of traction to the point that some people there are now thinking of such short-term (and I feel ultimately futile) cash-grab methods like releasing DLC to save Eugen. Meanwhile other "prominent" WG "tourney" players keep trying to debate me with embarrassingly bad game development cost math to try and pretend that SD flopping wasn't a major financial blow to Eugen and its ability to make future games.

For my part, I don't really get any pleasure in "bashing" the WG community. Like I said, it didn't matter in the first place. Nobody cares about it. I don't have friends who will be impressed by "bashing" it.

The only enjoyment to be had here is the simple irony of people celebrating the death of a "rival" game only to belatedly realized they also killed their own game. People unfortunately are often incredibly short-sighted; and choose to blame those who have simply shown them the longer-term consequences of their actions rather than actually admit to this short-sightedness. But hey, sure, keep pressing the disagree button until it breaks like what Razzman is hilariously doing. After all how dare this "Zinegata" outsider figure out the Cassandra truth of the SD/WG dynamic instead of the supposed leaders of the WG community.
 
Last edited:

nande

Second Lieutenant
47 Badges
Mar 1, 2017
160
0
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
Meanwhile other "prominent" WG "tourney" players keep trying to debate me with embarrassingly bad game development cost math to try and pretend that SD flopping wasn't a major financial blow to Eugen and its ability to make future games.
who are you referring to here, and where would one find examples of that math?
 

nande

Second Lieutenant
47 Badges
Mar 1, 2017
160
0
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
not sure why anyone wants a WG4. Past AoA there's been little to inspire faith in Eugen.
If I want to support new, competitively rewarding games that have Ka-50s, there's Tekken DLC.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.