Steam

[alanschu]

Chat? what of it? Paradox games have always had chat built in no?
If you want to speak to your fellow players you can always use teamspeak.
Personally i see no reason to choose Steam over Gamersgate. You get more potential problems and Paradox gets less money. It's a lose lose situation.

The chat function is a Steam's chat, enabling you to talk to any of your Steam friends regardless of what games you or they may be playing.

Whether or not Paradox gets less money is information we are not privy to. From what I know, GamersGate is no longer a part of Paradox Interactive.

 

[dankidus]

I'd be willing to bet Paradox payed Steam a lump sum or a per monthly/annual sum to use these distributors, just like any other distribution method.

 

[Syntalynder]

Also it only takes me 30 seconds to a minute to start up Steam, you must have a problem with your internet connection if it's taking you a long time, or you're an impatient kid that can't stand waiting a minute for a program to start up.

Steam is intrusive.

And there is no need to infer someone is an impatient kid just because they do not share the same views you do, that is unkind.

With a choice to buy the same game either from Steam or another vendor with no Steam-type app, users will choose non-steam every time.

In maybe 18 months to 2 years from now, Steam will be obsolete.

 

[alanschu]

With a choice to buy the same game either from Steam or another vendor with no Steam-type app, users will choose non-steam every time.

Unlikely, since I still plan to purchase it through Steam.

In maybe 18 months to 2 years from now, Steam will be obsolete.

Given that it continues to grow and grow, and is fueled by one of the most successful game developers in the world right now, I'm skeptical.

 

[dankidus]

Steam is intrusive.

And there is no need to infer someone is an impatient kid just because they do not share the same views you do, that is unkind.

With a choice to buy the same game either from Steam or another vendor with no Steam-type app, users will choose non-steam every time.

In maybe 18 months to 2 years from now, Steam will be obsolete.

Ill get a game through steam because there is a guarantee that I dont have install limits, among other reasons. Considering Steam is popular, and that EA actually decided to release its games without DRM through steam, your logic doesnt really hold up.

And really, if you dont like Steam because it takes a few seconds of looking at a box that says "connecting..", then you are just petty and fishing for a reason to go against something.

 

[Syntalynder]

Ill get a game through steam because there is a guarantee that I dont have install limits, among other reasons. Considering Steam is popular, and that EA actually decided to release its games without DRM through steam, your logic doesnt really hold up.

My logic does hold up.

1. My opinion is 100% valid to me and others who share my opinion.
2. Because people will choose non-intrusive over intrusive any day.

Gamers Gate does not have install limits and Steam is in fact DRM.

Faced with buying game 'X' on gamers gate (download & play) or from Steam (download, connect to internet, activate Steam, game boots, play) I bet most would choose Gamers Gate.

And really, if you dont like Steam because it takes a few seconds of looking at a box that says "connecting..", then you are just petty and fishing for a reason to go against something.

That statement is so wrong, and I'm sure others will agree. I feel embarassed for you. You don't know me at all and that is all supposition and fiction. You have no evidence. I'm not petty. But that statement is.

I don't like Steam because I dont want to connect to a 3rd-party system after I bought the game.
Once I buy a game, its mine. I dont want permission to start the game from someone else.
So, don't say my preferance is wrong just because you don't agree.
My preferance is right for me and for others who choose not to use Steam, except in tha apalling case they want to buy Empire Total War, in which case, they have no choice.

By all means, state your opinion of why YOU like Steam but don't ever say YOUR opinion is better than mine or anyone elses or FORCE your views on me or anyone else.

You are right, and I am right. That's the way the world is.
Get used to it.

 

[alanschu]

1. My opinion is 100% valid to me and others who share my opinion.

Your comment becomes unfalsifiable, and hence, irrelevant. Seriously this is just an attempt to obfuscate the issue. When you use the term "users," in no way is it clear that you're only referring to yourself and others that share your opinion.

Faced with buying game 'X' on gamers gate (download & play) or from Steam (download, connect to internet, activate Steam, game boots, play) I bet most would choose Gamers Gate.

You've already changed your response to "most," so I guess the logic didn't hold up so well after all.

Faced with buying game 'X' on gamers gate (download & play) or from Steam (download, connect to internet, activate Steam, game boots, play) I bet most would choose Gamers Gate.

Based on what? Your infalliable logic? Steam loads on bootup, and for me to play the game (at least here in Canada), I double click on the shortcut. I don't need to activate Steam, nor do i need to connect to the internet (since I'm always connected anyway).

Seriously, you've even added in extra steps just to make it look bad. I mean, apparently Steam users need to wait for "game boots," whereas GamersGate users just play the game instantly. It's like magic!

 

[Syntalynder]

Your comment becomes unfalsifiable, and hence, irrelevant. Seriously this is just an attempt to obfuscate the issue. When you use the term "users," in no way is it clear that you're only referring to yourself and others that share your opinion.



You've already changed your response to "most," so I guess the logic didn't hold up so well after all.



Based on what? Your infalliable logic? Steam loads on bootup, and for me to play the game (at least here in Canada), I double click on the shortcut. I don't need to activate Steam, nor do i need to connect to the internet (since I'm always connected anyway).

Seriously, you've even added in extra steps just to make it look bad. I mean, apparently Steam users need to wait for "game boots," whereas GamersGate users just play the game instantly. It's like magic!

Trolling response. What logic are you using?

We are both right. Read my above response. Case closed.

 

[dankidus]

My logic does hold up.

1. My opinion is 100% valid to me and others who share my opinion.
2. Because people will choose non-intrusive over intrusive any day.

Gamers Gate does not have install limits and Steam is in fact DRM.

Faced with buying game 'X' on gamers gate (download & play) or from Steam (download, connect to internet, activate Steam, game boots, play) I bet most would choose Gamers Gate.



That statement is so wrong, and I'm sure others will agree. I feel embarassed for you. You don't know me at all and that is all supposition and fiction. You have no evidence. I'm not petty. But that statement is.

I don't like Steam because I dont want to connect to a 3rd-party system after I bought the game.
Once I buy a game, its mine. I dont want permission to start the game from someone else.
So, don't say my preferance is wrong just because you don't agree.
My preferance is right for me and for others who choose not to use Steam, except in tha apalling case they want to buy Empire Total War, in which case, they have no choice.

By all means, state your opinion of why YOU like Steam but don't ever say YOUR opinion is better than mine or anyone elses or FORCE your views on me or anyone else.

You are right, and I am right. That's the way the world is.
Get used to it.

Point being, you are not every user in the game industry. When faced with a choice, many will choose steam, thus your logic is broken. (if choice presented = always against steam : wrong)

I'm not sure what you mean by intrusive play. If you are mad because a program takes up an extra 15M of memory in the background, ok, whatever.. your choice (wooptie do if you ask me).

Thirdly, Gamersgate does use DRM on some of its games, that is of course a publishers call. Some of these games have activation limits, while Steam inherently does not have any activation limit. I am in no way saying HOI3 will have any DRM on it (doubt it will, PI is apparently firmly against such practices), but those are facts. Either one, you have to connect to the internet to download. Steam requires you to log in once a month.

I'll agree, in the cases where people are forced to use steam (E:TW), that is a bad choice, but that isn't steams FAULT per se, that is the publishers fault who actually implements that particular DRM. I would frankly much rather use Steam and deal with their "DRM" (log on once a month to an account) than mess with securom and its install limits, send emails to people and hope they respond in a timely fashion.

And by all means, use GamersGate, I will be buying my copy from the store since Paradox has stated it is anti-DRM with its release of HOI3.

Glad you think we are both right, but no need to be a baby about it ("Thats the way the world works. Get used to it. Case closed.")

 

[Syntalynder]

@dankidus: I respect your arguement - no problem. Apologies for attitude.
I'm slowly being driven insane by a member of my family.

 

[dankidus]

Syntalynder: ah, sorry for any family troubles, those can be irritating, gl with that

 

[Jorath13]

IIRC if steam can't connect to the server it will ask you if you want to start in offline mode.

ONLY if you have activated the offline mode at least ONCE WITH INTERNET conection

You don't need to activate offline mode whilst connected to the Internet. I personally have done offline mode with my games when the Internet failed (while living in Florida amongst terrific thunderstorms). I was not required to be connected to answer the question "Do you want to play in Offline mode".

As for the Steam = bad DRM argument...I understand people do not like DRM. I do not like DRM. Most reasonable people don't like DRM. Most people though like to see publishers, authors, and those involved in the creation of products get paid for their efforts. Of course in a perfect society we'd each determine ourselves what the work is worth to us and pay appropriately rather than have some definitive amount thrust upon us, but I digress. Because most people like to get paid they must ensure their works are kept in a medium that will give them monetary benefits. Pirated games, music, movies, etc do not gain any of the original creators, publishers, etc any money - though I think the argument that it represents "money lost" is incorrect. Again, I digress.

To the point, to ensure Paradox gets paid for HoI3 there needs to be a measure or a medium that allows security for them to receive payments. Simply offering the game via download over the Internet will not help their case - hence the inclusion of CD keys. Problem: CD keys are easily hacked...if you think otherwise just do a search for "Windows CD key cracks" and you'll find hundreds if not thousands of sites offering such. Granted, most will be keyloggers, viruses, trojans, etc but the point is if a huge and successful company like Microsoft cannot keep their software from being stolen and distributed, how can a small company like Paradox do so?

Steam represents a potential solution, albeit not the best. (Interlude: I am a Steam user and have nearly two dozen games purchased through it. I find some faults with the system but for the most part I prefer it to most other systems). It does provide Paradox the means to ensure each copy of HoI3 sold through Steam (which is run by Valve by the way...hence Steam is not a seperate company) goes to a legitimate user and cannot be copied and traded/sold off. Like it or not (and I see those who don't are most vehement about it) DRM will be a continuing source of irritation only because the numbers of pirates (yay Pirate Party...) out there illegally downloading software is only increasing. I personally would prefer to live with Steam than any of the other previous methods of copy protection. You old-timer gamers will know what I'm talking about. I'd rather not turn to page XXX, line XXX, word XXX each time I want to play or every few months...nor do I want a return to the code wheels, dongles, phone activation, or the like.

That all said, I plan on purchasing a copy via New Egg since its cheaper.

 

[Baneslave]

Discussion about Steam makes for stupid flamewars everywhere, it seems. And throwing water to fire doenst help as it just makes more... Steam.

 

[Sirveri]

You don't need to activate offline mode whilst connected to the Internet. I personally have done offline mode with my games when the Internet failed (while living in Florida amongst terrific thunderstorms). I was not required to be connected to answer the question "Do you want to play in Offline mode".

This is true, however if you lose your internet connection for several days it will require you to reconnect if you did not set Steam to go to offline mode while you were still online. It installs some sort of timestamp on the system. If you lose your internet it gives you a shorter window then if you do it purposefully. I ran into this issue while I was in the Navy. I'd take the laptop to duty, then I'd come home, and depending on my workload I wouldn't hook the laptop back up to the internet (or even set it up) for several days. Imagine my chagrin when I went to play civ4 off steam in offline mode and was told I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't connected to the internet.

Screw that.

Yes I found the work around of connecting, going into offline mode, then shutting down. But why the hell should I even have to do that? I bought the game, let me play it whenever I want to irregardless of my internet connection. God forbid I go on deployment on my submarine and have no internet for months at a stretch. I guess then I'm not allowed to play any of my steam games unless I jump through a bunch of hoops. Even then I'm not sure how long I am 'allowed' to stay in offline mode.

Any program that determines what I am 'allowed' to do with my own property is screwed up.

That said, steam is a very easy delivery system to use, and I do actually like using it. But if I have the choice between steam and anything else I'll pick anything else every time. God forbid there would be a nuclear war and it's just me and my laptop and emergency generator, I'd feel like the librarian who steps on his glasses if everything was on steam.

 

[zombie]

Steam is a very convenient program and I've gotten a lot of games through it, but it usually isn't mod friendly. If you value mods, get a box copy or go through GamersGate. Especially because there is no DRM associated with the title, GG really is a better option than Steam. You can download the install files (self-installing executables) and just burn them to CD/DVD or copy them to a flash drive and you don't have to worry about re-downloading.

 

[ForzaA]

with the original question answered and the thread seemingly degenerating into an argument about whether or not Steam is any good.. I think I'm going to close this one before the argument gets too heated.