Steam Stats - why has CK2 so much fewer daily players than other three main Pdox games?

[Erratorium]

I hope the next dlc give more to do internally. It would be nice to be able to form some sort of bond with an other dynasty, having them be friend or foe and when you face a member of this dynasty you know that they will be more loyal to you (and so you are more likely to trust them with title and land) but rival dynasty would work to destroy you, even if they have to flee to an other country to gain more support. (there is already some sort of hate for direct familly member if you kill a close relative so it could be possible to expand that to the entire dynasty in case of big affront like repeatedly killing members of that dynasty or overthrowing their titles, etc...)
I would also like something related to the capital, it would be nice to have some sort of palace (like the merchant republic mansion) exept maybe you need to be a king or an emperor to build it, you cannot move it so you need to be careful where you put it but your dynasty always has a claim on it to get it back if it fall to someone else.
The addition to the palace could give more things to do. For exemple building a ballroom could allow to organise ball, where unmarried ruler and heir could find a spouse among the guests (small ball only include your vassals but bigger ball could include guests and rulers from others country) and it could also boost the opinion from your vassals or from other rulers. Another exemple would be some sort of collection room that lower the chance of loosing artefacts during sieges or after successions (RIP my sword worth 1000 gold, lost 2 years after getting it)

I realize that it is mostly flavor thing rather than game mechanics but I prefere that kind of stuff for CK2 rather than the map painting (I play EU4 in that case ^^), and it could be a change from the same feast / fair that all rulers already have.

P.S. I just realized that I wrote a big wall of text, sorry about that. (Especially since it’s not really the topic at hand)

 

[IntoTheMaelstrom]

EU and HoI have much more memes/youtubers so (new) people are drawn more into those games. Before I played any pdx games I was much more drawn to hoi and euiv, because it was easier to imagine playing this. It's just wanting to play as pagan made me buy the game

 

[Zoomun]

EU and HoI have much more memes/youtubers so (new) people are drawn more into those games. Before I played any pdx games I was much more drawn to hoi and euiv, because it was easier to imagine playing this. It's just wanting to play as pagan made me buy the game

CK2 has memes but they sadly offend or disgust most people. For someone reason murdering children and incest aren't considered socially acceptable.

 

[Erratorium]

Is the « meme aspect » of a game really helping that much to have a continuing fanbase ? I tought that those meme game had a small burst of sales when discovered by some youtubers but then the player base plummet because it’s a meme and stop being fun after 5 minutes.
Also I’m not even sure what you mean by meme in that context. Is it simply calling meme the fact to bring back the roman empire or byzantium in EU4/HOI4 or world conquest as Luxemburg ? If yes it is not really the definition I had of meme (but honestly I don’t pay attention to meme either so I may be missing the entire underground meme-factory of EU4/HOI4)

 

[Zsrai]

Is the « meme aspect » of a game really helping that much to have a continuing fanbase ? I tought that those meme game had a small burst of sales when discovered by some youtubers but then the player base plummet because it’s a meme and stop being fun after 5 minutes.
Also I’m not even sure what you mean by meme in that context. Is it simply calling meme the fact to bring back the roman empire or byzantium in EU4/HOI4 or world conquest as Luxemburg ? If yes it is not really the definition I had of meme (but honestly I don’t pay attention to meme either so I may be missing the entire underground meme-factory of EU4/HOI4)

Nah, it's being able to meme ABOUT it. Basically just making awful shitposts on the appropriate subreddit and Steam forum for cheap laughs.

 

[Nicolaes]

I think it is because of the shift we're seeing in gaming for the past 10 years from players who enjoy playing a game to people who enjoy winning a game.

Most players nowadays seem to aim for games filled with action that give a quick and easy dopamine rushes. Considering that's what people want nowadays (and there's nothing wrong with that! The only big problem that causes is that it is very easy to become addicted to games that offer that, like World of Warcraft and Fortnite) I fear we're going to see less and less of a playerbase for sandbox games since in those games you'll find more enjoyment in just playing the game as opposed to winning it, since you can't.

For example, I have never done world conquest in Crusader Kings 2 since I enjoyed being the dynasty in Crusader Kings II and roleplay that untill the end date. The same goes when I'm playing Europa Universalis IV (although it is a bit more difficult in that game), Cities: Skylines, Victoria II, the Anno games et cetera.

The reason that HOI IV and EU IV are doing 'better' (I don't know the sales rate) than CK2 and Vicky II is probably that they're more action packed and have clearer goals to set: In EU IV people can aim to paint the map their nation's colour while in HOI IV the aim is somewhat similar although often its just beating the opposite factions/ideologies.



Besides that Paradox games (and a lot of games from other companies aswell) are pretty complex and difficult compared to the average game. A lot of players nowadays want to be able to master the game within an hour compared to the learning curves you have for both games like CK2 and older RTS/RPG games such as Knights & Merchants.

I was raised with difficult RTS games since my mother was a RTS gamer and introduced me to them at an early age. Knights & Merchants, for example, had around 30-40 different recourses (if I recall it correctly atleast) and several production trees using up recourses to produce different kind of things. A knight, for example, needed a suit of armor (needed to be made by a smith out of steel, which itself needed to be melted together using iron ore and coal), a shield (same), a sword (same, although you needed a different type of smithy), a horse (bred in the stables which needed a steady supply of grain) and a recruit (had to be trained at the school, which needed spending a chest of gold, which you also needed to produce with gold ore and coal) and besides that you also needed to feed that single knight using food such as bread, wine, sausages (a pain in the arse to produce) and fish. I think your average gamer in 2018 would avoid a game like that like the plague (I would've too if I realised there were also easier games out there).

I remember my first 50 hours in CK2 as pure hell trying to survive in a hostile world and I had it pretty easy considering that I started when there were less mechanics and I already had experience playing difficult games... And CK2 is nothing compared to Wargame: Red Dragon, which I still fail to master since I have no experience with modern military jargon whatsoever and I totally suck at reconnaisance.

 

[IntoTheMaelstrom]

By memes I mean funny videos and images with caption, not some scientist definition made 15 years ago.
You can't put flags on people faces with CK2, it just won't work. Countries in CK2 don't have developed personality. If Poland or Germany are left to 3 of the same provinces, but in different games, the gameplay will be probably different in EU due to ideas and events. Meanwhile you can name your country Zuckerbergia in CK2 and nothing will change.
I still love EU memes, even though I played it less than 0 seconds (I was just looking at the ruler creator).

 

[PK_AZ]

The reason that HOI IV and EU IV are doing 'better' (I don't know the sales rate) than CK2 and Vicky II is probably that they're more action packed and have clearer goals to set: In EU IV people can aim to paint the map their nation's colour while in HOI IV the aim is somewhat similar although often its just beating the opposite factions/ideologies.

Honestly that 'EU4 is map painting' thing is irritating. I agree with one: both EU4 and HoI4 are much better when it comes to giving player feeling of progress. REAL progress, not some 'score', mind you. Because of that, I can totally imagine that I play EU4 as Austria and try to unite HRE, or that I try to play with trade, or that I actually conquer anything other than my region provinces, instead of creating another boring colonial empire. In CK2 I have nothing more to actually do (as opposed to just waiting for events) that to conquer something.
So from that two games, I would actually call CK2 map painter, not EU4.

Besides that Paradox games (and a lot of games from other companies aswell) are pretty complex and difficult compared to the average game. A lot of players nowadays want to be able to master the game within an hour compared to the learning curves you have for both games like CK2 and older RTS/RPG games such as Knights & Merchants.

When it comes to complexity, Knights and Merchants was quite simple, and it had great tutorial (the only thing lacking was warfare) .

Also, I just checked player totals for both games (at the top: https://steamdb.info/app/236850/graphs/ https://steamdb.info/app/203770/graphs/ ; yes, I know i linked them before, but then I checked only players daily).
It seems that CK2 problem is not ability to bring new players, but to keep them.

 

[merilessj]

CK2 is old (it is infact a valid response, considering with older games many people are simply burnt out from playing them)
CK2 is a very niche title with unique gameplay that not everyone can enjoy
many people who don't play these regularly find games like ck2 boring, esp because of the claims system if you play as a christian
CK2 hasn't had a major update in some time (you see a sharp inc in people with updates)

Because CK2 can only be thorough enjoyed by those with superior intellect.

CK2 is the hardest PDX game, as also the oldest and both EU4 and Stellaris got recent DLCs. As one is being developed for CK2, we can expect a raise of those players' quantity significantly then.

You what m8?
I hope you're joking. I think its by far easier than everything else, and I often have people play ck2 before they play eu4 or HOI4. Personally the hardest game HOI3/2, and I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that.

Also saying that, "the game I enjoy playing is only because of my higher intellect" makes you look pretentious and stupid, esp when talking about CK2. I love CK2, but calling it intellectual is just huffing your own farts.

 

[Erratorium]

I hope you're joking. I think its by far easier than everything else, and I often have people play ck2 before they play eu4 or HOI4. Personally the hardest game HOI3/2, and I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that.

I agree that HOI3 is one of the hardest game (especially because it isn’t very « user friendly ») but I also have to say that CK2 isn’t an easy game.
HOI4 is very easy to play (some would say that the game itself is way to easy)
EU4 is harder to learn than HOI4 but if you start as any big country even if you don’t really know what you are doing you will still probably stay big and expand easily (country don’t break often exept very bad choice from player, event or wrecked by war. the more the game advance, the more bonus you get because of national ideas and ideas groups)
In CK2 if you start as a ruler of a big country and if you don’t really know what you are doing you can find yourself in a civil war and lose the game without even being attacked by a foreign country, or you can have you big kingdom being cut into pieces because of inheritance law and therefore you need to get back your old territory all over again.
I like that, it’s part of the charm of the game (and once you know what you are doing you don’t have any of the problems I said above) but it easy to see why a lot of people wouldn’t like to learn all that seeing how easy it is to lose your empire in the game.
From the paradox game I played, in my opinion the ranking in difficulty(to learn how to play) is HOI3(hardest)>>>CK2>EU4>HOI4>Stellaris(easiest)

 

[Heiliges Thüringens Reich]

CK2 is old (it is infact a valid response, considering with older games many people are simply burnt out from playing them)
CK2 is a very niche title with unique gameplay that not everyone can enjoy
many people who don't play these regularly find games like ck2 boring, esp because of the claims system if you play as a christian
CK2 hasn't had a major update in some time (you see a sharp inc in people with updates)





You what m8?
I hope you're joking. I think its by far easier than everything else, and I often have people play ck2 before they play eu4 or HOI4. Personally the hardest game HOI3/2, and I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that.

Also saying that, "the game I enjoy playing is only because of my higher intellect" makes you look pretentious and stupid, esp when talking about CK2. I love CK2, but calling it intellectual is just huffing your own farts.

Erm, my first sentence was indeed a joke. The second one wasn't, and I was referring the current games

 

[sinpkr]

For me personally its because of the way the DLC's for ck2 have been done recently. I'm not really interested in china or any of the last few dlc'c which i feel haven't added anything worthwhile to the game.

Also the game is old and its started to really show . There are mechanics that I wish were in the base game like cadet branches or being a king while in some way paying fealty to another king(like how William of normandie was king of England and king of Normandy ) , or how the HRE in the game works in general.

 

[Black Turtle]

For me personally its because of the way the DLC's for ck2 have been done recently. I'm not really interested in china or any of the last few dlc'c which i feel haven't added anything worthwhile to the game.

Also the game is old and its started to really show . There are mechanics that I wish were in the base game like cadet branches or being a king while in some way paying fealty to another king(like how William of normandie was king of England and king of Normandy ) , or how the HRE in the game works in general.

They stopped making huge updates to the game because people couldn't stop bitching about how they didn't like the changes in Conclave.

 

[IntoTheMaelstrom]

They stopped making huge updates to the game because people couldn't stop bitching about how they didn't like the changes in Conclave.

Conclave is terrible, unless you take 90 years to make your council only have war declaration comitee

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

Conclave is terrible, unless you take 90 years to make your council only have war declaration comitee

Conclave is fine if you're aiming for a "realistic" DLC. Just because the king overruled the council doesn't mean that they won't all plot to make him abdicate.

It also makes sense from a "from tribal to feudal" perspective, since tribes basically were purely councils.

I really don't understand why people hate on it so much.

 

[Zsrai]

I really don't understand why people hate on it so much.

It wasn't about warfare and it makes declaring war tougher (your council has to approve). You also have to manage vassals actively instead of passively. That and the whole "I don't like change!" thing that always happens.

 

[Black Turtle]

Basically player logic is

Omg y you no change the game

Omg y u change game so much now it sucks

 

[MrReaper182]

CK2 is the easiest grand strategy game to learn to play because you don't have to build up an army (unless playing as nomads), worry about trade or coalitions forming against you most of the time. It's a lot more RPG than Strategy. As much as I love EU4 I will have to say I prefer CK2 because there is much more to do when your not at war.
I play most of my CK2 games with Steam offline so I will hardly show up on Steam daily stats. Maybe more people do the same thing as me and play CK2 with steam offline.

 

[Bernard95]

Conclave is terrible, unless you take 90 years to make your council only have war declaration comitee

Just to throw this out there, if you play the earlier starts your Council will pretty much always start out with no power. If you do 1066 typically they have a couple of rights but not the important ones like title grants, which is easy enough to work with since bribery is a peace of cake to pull off. It's when you get really late like the Latin Empire start when you see the Council with full rights which is a pain in the ass to deal with.

For the record though, I hated Conclave too initially. Didn't take me long at all to learn how to play with it and also abuse it. I'd urge you to give it another shot.

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

I got into the game with all the DLC shortly after Conclave came out, and against the advice of literally everyone saying "don't buy the DLC until you like the game".

In a weird way, the council acted a bit like an additional tutorial layer, specifically regarding war declarations.

If the pragmatist is voting yea, then the war should be relatively easy. If the Glory Hound is voting yes, declaring that war is probably going to be a REALLY bad idea.

They might not help the player much when it comes in regards to handling the actual internal affairs of the realm, such as imprisonment and title revocation, but they guide the player a bit.