Steam sale - is Conclave worth getting?

[C.N.]

So, the Steam summer sale is here. Conclave is on sale. Conclave has a lot of negativity about it.

Has it gotten good enough to be worth getting, or should I skip it this sale?

 

[Iron Chariots]

I like Conclave. The council mechanics are much more interesting than just picking the best candidate; instead you need to balance placating your large vassals against always having the best guy for the job.

 

[Rationalsanity]

The biggest problems with Conclave stem from the 2.5 patch. The DLC actually makes things easier.

Though I still contend that the new education system is a mess.

 

[TL_]

I do like Conclave. One surprising change with Conclave, for example, is that with Hordes you really have to be a Great Uniter. As a Nomad government, you will always have to deal with the council for everything - which is super frustrating if you're just a bloodthirsty raider. For the first time, I have to be a bloodthirsty raider who throws good dinner parties when playing a khagan.

And the education mechanics feel a lot more thoughtful. I'm enjoying those.

 

[Iron Chariots]

The biggest problems with Conclave stem from the 2.5 patch. The DLC actually makes things easier.

Though I still contend that the new education system is a mess.

Honestly, I think the education system is more poorly documented than bad per se. It would really benefit from better tooltips/explanations of how guardian traits can override traits gained from certain education focuses, etc.

 

[TL_]

Honestly, I think the education system is more poorly documented than bad per se. It would really benefit from better tooltips/explanations of how guardian traits can override traits gained from certain education focuses, etc.

Oh, definitely true. I have to play with that window open when I'm playing CK2 now. I only have Rowdy -> Brave memorized because that's always my top priority to preempt.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Conclave is a great DLC that gives flavor to playing as a vassal.

Most complaints stem more from the 2.5 patch of shattered retreat and pacts that came rather than the DLC itself. I personally find those complaints to be unfounded, but that is unrelated to Conclave.

In my opinion shrewd is more useful. Only problem is the focus that gives shrewd (curious) has another common trait, fussy. It interferes with diplomacy education. So you roll the dice on whether the child will be hampered by opposing traits.

 

[Iron Chariots]

Oh, definitely true. I have to play with that window open when I'm playing CK2 now. I only have Rowdy -> Brave memorized because that's always my top priority to preempt.

Yeah, me too. I'm usually running a military education these days, so I always make sure to prevent dumbing my kid down.

 

[Dahoota]

The biggest problems with Conclave stem from the 2.5 patch.

I can't underline this point enough, nearly all the rage worthy stuff was in the patch and it's poor execution, not the DLC. The DLC adds considerably more depth to the mid-late game by adding more to realm management, being a vassal is more interesting too.

Well, apart from not understanding what was happening sometimes. The first few times I accidentally did stuff without council permission and clocked up insane tyranny drove me nuts.

 

[Aotrs Commander]

I am in a similar position to the OP - I am considering getting CK2 in the sale (well, more a case od considering how MUCH of CK 2 to get). CK2 pack + Charlemagne + Way of Life seems like a good starter (is about £35) - all but the latest two DLC was what I bought for EUIV when Mare Nostrum came out.

What, given that I am a newcomer to CK2 would be the recommendations on Horse Lords and Conclave, especially taking into account one of the things I'm most interested in CK2 for is as a prequal to EUIV (and a running start on world conquest!) and with the aformentioned patch issues (though there appears to have been some balance patches since.)

 

[StJimmyRocks92]

I absolutely hate Conclave and everything that comes in the 2.5 patch so I'd say don't buy it.

 

[Rationalsanity]

The issue with education is that the AI can't use it properly. And some foci are flat out better.

 

[Bernard95]

I am in a similar position to the OP - I am considering getting CK2 in the sale (well, more a case od considering how MUCH of CK 2 to get). CK2 pack + Charlemagne + Way of Life seems like a good starter (is about £35) - all but the latest two DLC was what I bought for EUIV when Mare Nostrum came out.

What, given that I am a newcomer to CK2 would be the recommendations on Horse Lords and Conclave, especially taking into account one of the things I'm most interested in CK2 for is as a prequal to EUIV (and a running start on world conquest!) and with the aformentioned patch issues (though there appears to have been some balance patches since.)

Honestly if you don't have the base game, you're better off getting the Collection which is on sale for $40 right now. You get everything ever released up to Way of Life Charlemagne, which will pad out your game nicely. That would be the ideal starter pack, and as you learn the game you can add in Charlemagne, Way of Life, Horse Lords, and Conclave during another sale (and CK2 goes on sale frequently). The only reasons I wouldn't do the Collection is if I was afraid I may not enjoy the game, if I was trying to penny pinch, or if I didn't have the time investment of around ~150hrs to learn the game.

And on a side note, if you ever see a bad review for a DLC it's more than likely that they're actually complaining about a free patch feature. Conclave got much of its hate from the infamy and coalition mechanic as an example, which ticked off a lot of "map painters". If you yourself ever find that a patch feature is problematic, you can always roll back to a previous patch using Steam Betas. Several older patches are kept for convenience in fact, going all the way back to 1.11.

 

[Aotrs Commander]

Honestly if you don't have the base game, you're better off getting the Collection which is on sale for $40 right now. You get everything ever released up to Way of Life, which will pad out your game nicely. That would be the ideal starter pack, and as you learn the game you can add in Way of Life, Horse Lords, and Conclave during another sale (and CK2 goes on sale frequently). The only reasons I wouldn't do the Collection is if I was afraid I may not enjoy the game, if I was trying to penny pinch, or if I didn't have the time investment of around ~150hrs to learn the game.

And on a side note, if you ever see a bad review for a DLC it's more than likely that they're actually complaining about a free patch feature. Conclave got much of its hate from the infamy and coalition mechanic as an example, which ticked off a lot of "map painters". If you yourself ever find that a patch feature is problematic, you can always roll back to a previous patch using Steam Betas. Several older patches are kept for convenience in fact, going all the way back to 1.11.

My current plan is the collection, plus Charemagne and Way of Life (for the earlier start/customisation and the "more choice less random" stuff respectively*), with the others up for debate depending on what people say (by tonight, since I'll be going away until pretty much the sale is over!) Reading the reviews and topics around Conclave in particular suggested that it was a good idea to ask around first, given what has been said about the 2.5 patch/conclave.



*The aspect I liked least out of EUIV was the entirely random ruler stats...

 

[CannotresistDLC]

This thread made me realize that 29 of 30 items on my wish list are on sale right now.

 

[Bernard95]

My current plan is the collection, plus Charemagne and Way of Life (for the earlier start/customisation and the "more choice less random" stuff respectively*), with the others up for debate depending on what people say (by tonight, since I'll be going away until pretty much the sale is over!) Reading the reviews and topics around Conclave in particular suggested that it was a good idea to ask around first, given what has been said about the 2.5 patch/conclave.



*The aspect I liked least out of EUIV was the entirely random ruler stats...

I see. My advice would be to familiarize yourself with the game somewhat before adding in Conclave, since it was basically intended as a difficulty hike for vetted players. Your Council will seek to block your actions if they have too much power (which can be problematic for anyone), and the education system is more random so you can't always educate yourself a good heir. The free patch features of shattered retreat, infamy, and coalitions won't be anything new to an EU4 player (though coalitions are purely defensive in CK2).

As for the random stats, many characters save for important historical ones do have their traits and stats randomized to at least some degree. Through education, Way of Life foci, and random events you can influence your stats. Coincidentally, the most important stats are analogous to the three found in EU4- martial (modifies levy size), diplomacy (modifies opinion), stewardship (determines number of personal demense holdings).

 

[Aotrs Commander]

Right. On balance then, I'll do the same as I did with EUIV and leave the two most recent DLCs (i.e. conclave and horse lords) for some other time. Ta, folks.

 

[RelVleDy]

The biggest problems with Conclave stem from the 2.5 patch. The DLC actually makes things easier.

Though I still contend that the new education system is a mess.

The new education system is hit-or-miss. I enjoy fine-tuning the traits my children have to extreme obsessions of detail, so what I've had to do is print a small chart of what each child trait can culminate into what, and taped it next to my monitor as a reference guide. I was tired of alt+tabbing over and over to reference the wiki.

Funny thing is, I almost have the entire chart memorized by now, like how Haughty doesn't benefit anything, how Conscientious can lead into Diligent, Temperment, and Just, how having two +12 attributes can provide someone the chance to give a child Ambitious, Diligent, or Patience, the list goes on. Basically, what Paradox has done is taken a lot of the thinking and put it into the lap of the player, so now WE are responsible for figuring out all this shit. It's frustrating, but when you master it, I feel it has its benefits, but seriously though, why should I have to print a chart out like this? If a player is having to consult something outside of game to know what to do, it's a failure. I don't see anything about this in any in-game tutorials, either.

 

[Rationalsanity]

And what's difficult for players is impossible for the AI.

 

[TL_]

if a player is having to consult something outside of game to know what to do, it's a failure. I don't see anything about this in any in-game tutorials, either.

Nobody tell this guy about how complicated the combat tactic selection system is, it'll just make things worse.