Steam options Pre-order and Season Pass

[Atlanteax]

As I keep explaining, business arguments aren't going to sway me when your business is no where near being in trouble.

Unfortunately, you are letting your *idealism* cloud your perspective.

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Let's say that QA has a budget of $1000 (simple # for illustrative purposes).
Right now, Paradox allocates $500 of that to Steam version (95% of market) and $500 to GamerGate/etc (5% of the market).
It is a 50/50 split of the budget due to the 'equal' amount of work involved.

Result = both markets get $500 worth of QA.

.

Paradox is making the decision to forgo that 5% and concentrate the entire QA budget on Steam.

Result = Players of EU4 (available thru Steam) get $1000 of QA (the entire budget).

.

That is a *HUGE WIN* for 95% of current EU3 players ... essentially double the QA they get on a game.

 

[colinljx]

nice especially 2 and 4.

1. Try 20% off
2. Everyone will have it
3. Pirates will share them
4. Most of us own all of them
5. See answer to #3

Don't know, those 5 bonuses ain't worth that much in value. I would rather see a much more polished EU4 with lots more new features (especially improved combat) and regular patches for new content (instead of just paid DLC) knowing the devs have more time/resources at their disposal by switching to Steam only.

 

[RobRoy3]

...That is a *HUGE WIN* for 95% of current EU3 players ... essentially double the QA they get on a game.

Well, QA means different things in different shops. But I would be shocked if that implied the code, as a whole, could receive twice as much "testing" or "QA" or whatever, throughout the process.

I suspect Captain Gars was referring to whatever final testing they do when they release "finished" software into the production environments. That would, typically, represent a small fraction of the total time/effort spent on "testing" or "QA", though, and it would only be required after the software is essentially done. Yes, some of the annoying bugs, delays, and version control issues that crop up at release time (with both GamersGate and Steam patches) might decrease, and that would be a good thing.

But I strongly doubt that means any significant resources would thereby be available, throughout the process, to ensure that features are implemented better or that balance is optimized, if that's the sort of thing you're hoping.

 

[Franconian]

Well, QA means different things in different shops. But I would be shocked if that implied the code, as a whole, could receive twice as much "testing" or "QA" or whatever, throughout the process.

I suspect Captain Gars was referring to whatever final testing they do when they release "finished" software into the production environments. That would, typically, represent a small fraction of the total time/effort spent on "testing" or "QA", though, and it would only be required after the software is essentially done. Yes, some of the annoying bugs, delays, and version control issues that crop up at release time (with both GamersGate and Steam patches) might decrease, and that would be a good thing.

But I strongly doubt that means any significant resources would thereby be available, throughout the process, to ensure that features are implemented better or that balance is optimized, if that's the sort of thing you're hoping.

You would have to test EVERYTHING. In QA, "Anything can effect anything" is imho THE most important saying. Just imagine the nerd rage if there was an error which would make it impossible to play after one year?

With bad luck that error is difficult to find in code (after all, it works fine for the Steam version!) and after it is found it is a real pain in the ass to fix - maybe resolves around the Impulse release package and fixing it would mean that the Impulse version would not run at all. Realising this is the second the dev team finally opens their beer.

 

[Atlanteax]

Well, QA means different things in different shops. But I would be shocked if that implied the code, as a whole, could receive twice as much "testing" or "QA" or whatever, throughout the process.

I suspect Captain Gars was referring to whatever final testing they do when they release "finished" software into the production environments. That would, typically, represent a small fraction of the total time/effort spent on "testing" or "QA", though, and it would only be required after the software is essentially done. Yes, some of the annoying bugs, delays, and version control issues that crop up at release time (with both GamersGate and Steam patches) might decrease, and that would be a good thing.

But I strongly doubt that means any significant resources would thereby be available, throughout the process, to ensure that features are implemented better or that balance is optimized, if that's the sort of thing you're hoping.

Umm, this is not 'hoping' but *is* the impact of the strategic decision that Paradox is making.

Paradox will be apply the full focus of quality game development upon one version of the game. Where potential quality is not 'lost' due to the costs / bandwidth consumed by having to deal with multiple versions simultaneously.

That is why in the long-run, this move by Paradox is a 'win' for the dedicated EU player.

 

[No idea]

We will not do any seasonpass, as the amount of DLC produced simply can not be projected at any time.

Would you be happy if we sell a season pass for 100$ at release, and then only release 2 dlc ?


And no, there won't be a non-steam version.. We had a huge forum-demand for a non-steam version of CK2, and it had an even less percent of the market than we had expected.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...


*sigh* not Steam, please, not Steam.

 

[No idea]

Aren't Paradox Dev Studio games able to run without Steam anyway? The only time you need Steam is during purchase and when you want to download updates/patches?

I only own one game thta needs Steam to work, but i tell you it needs Steam for everything. No Steam, no game.

 

[No idea]

Yes, for Paradox games, this is the case.

Are we sure it is going to STILL be the case?

 

[RobRoy3]

Umm, this is not 'hoping' but *is* the impact of the strategic decision that Paradox is making.

Paradox will be apply the full focus of quality game development upon one version of the game. Where potential quality is not 'lost' due to the costs / bandwidth consumed by having to deal with multiple versions simultaneously.

That is why in the long-run, this move by Paradox is a 'win' for the dedicated EU player.

I'm not saying there won't be any potential benefits to consumers. I'm simply saying that interpreting this move to mean that code gets twice as much testing and QA, throughout the development process, simply can't be true. There may be some semantic issues, here, but most of the effort that is generally referred to as "testing" or "QA" simply has nothing to do with how the finished product is distributed.

We're talking about a single end-user platform. Perhaps if they were also delivering to a MAC platform, as well, your assertion might be correct, but even that would benefit from some similarities on the front-end.

I'm quite confident there is a single development track, until the very end of the cycle, including after the bulk of testing, when there is a (partially administrative) process to deliver/package the code into whatever format is required by the production environments of the various distribution channels, whether that's a CD going gold, or transmitting files and installers to Steam and Gamersgate. This isn't trivial and can be challenging, and that is the area that Paradox expects to cut costs/effort. But the time/effort involved at that time pales in comparison to the bulk of testing and QA activities that are performed throughout the development process. So expecting things like code quality, features, or balance optimization to be improved because there are suddenly significant new resources freed up is simply fantasy.

What is reasonable is to expect is that some of the gliches, delays, and version control issues that occasionally accompany a patch release will decrease. That's about it.

In the unlikely event that Paradox really has two completely separate tracks for developing and testing their PC based game, that'd be great. Because any decent consultant would be able to save them tons of money in about half a day.

 

[MylesSCP]

I only own one game thta needs Steam to work, but i tell you it needs Steam for everything. No Steam, no game.

This is not the case with CK2. I can copy the game to a different folder and play just fine. It's how I keep old patches

 

[balooooooo]

Paradox lost a bit of its soul today. It's a slippery slope from here on in. This isn't a million miles away from what Adolf Hitler tried to do!!!

 

[Don_Quigleone]

If Paradox switches other games to Steam only distribution, will people who bought games through GG in the past get a new steamkey?

If Paradox is indeed switching exclusively to Steam, I'd appreciate being able to move my copy of CK2+DLCs and Vicky 2+AHD to Steam as well. (Keep everything in one place).

 

[glasszon]

I am really disappointed about EU4 being steam only, I did not have steam installed on this computer and I never planned to ever install it.

If paradox drop gamersgate completely and go with steam only, then they have just lost at least 1 customer.

(Having said that I can potentially live with it IF the game can be run without installing steam. Eg. If I can install steam on a crappy computer, copy and paste the game folder into the main computer and have it work without steam, then this might still allow me to buy the game, otherwise looks like I will have to pass on EU4 and stick with EU3).

 

[justin6477]

(Having said that I can potentially live with it IF the game can be run without installing steam. Eg. If I can install steam on a crappy computer, copy and paste the game folder into the main computer and have it work without steam, then this might still allow me to buy the game, otherwise looks like I will have to pass on EU4 and stick with EU3).

You realize you can run the game without starting it through steam, right? So what's the issue with installing Steam?

I keep it off unless there's a Steam Sale, or someone's released a new DLC. It's not spyware.

 

[unmerged(81596)]

Pretty obvious this was coming which is why I haven't been paying much attention to EUIV. Funny though, going back through all the old Paradox Pronouncements. Fred being glad that GOG were taking new games now, not using DRM, not having a favoured distributor, how putting steam on published DVDs wasn't a slippery slope, how the non steam versions of Lionheart.. would get proper support etc. I have some sympathy for the Connect situation given the changes Steam made to their TOS that would have made it risky to include- EA don't appear in any hurry to cave but then they do have a cool billion in the bank. OTOH I'd regard the 50% support/ patch costs claim as almost entirely spin and sophistry as both the GG and Steam versions of CK2 are exactly the same, they have the same checksum etc. So the costs are, uh, repackaging the same bunch of files. I guess given that level of costs there's no chance of supporting, say, Linux which uses an entirely different OS, different libraries and the like and I'd bet has waaaaay less than 5% share, now is there*?

As for steam being free, that is one of the biggest misnomers going around. The free bits are a loss leader intended to make steam ubiquitous and essential to all involved, and the cost is the 30% of your gross you'd retain if selling yourself- which is why a company as interested in cash as EA ain't going back with a begging bowl. All going steam only achieves is making sure you'll only ever get to 70% of potential value.

I won't be buying EUIV, when it comes to entirely voluntary purchases of luxury goods it meets my demands or it doesn't get bought- and I've never had any desire to turn my PC into a Software Console.

*Yes, I know.

 

[glasszon]

You realize you can run the game without starting it through steam, right? So what's the issue with installing Steam?

I keep it off unless there's a Steam Sale, or someone's released a new DLC. It's not spyware.

Because Steam in essence is lending you the game for a long period of time. When I spend money buying a game I want physical possession of it and not having games deleted from my computer because I break one of steam's rules. (No, I never been banned on steam, but I will just never support or install steam on principle).

That's why I never played console games, the manufacturers set so many restrictions on the hardware even though I would have spend hundreds of dollars to purchase the console. I hope one day PC will have sport games again as I have missed playing sport games for years.

 

[s1234567890m]

My problem is that people have had their accounts closed for things they said on the forums (the Steam forums, that is). They should instead just be banned from using the forums, but have your entire Steam library blocked from you for being an idiot? That's just not cool.

...that was origin. And unless you do something really really bad like fraud, they still let you play your games, but freeze your access to trading and gifts etc

 

[DarkieBabZ]

If Paradox switches other games to Steam only distribution, will people who bought games through GG in the past get a new steamkey?

If Paradox is indeed switching exclusively to Steam, I'd appreciate being able to move my copy of CK2+DLCs and Vicky 2+AHD to Steam as well. (Keep everything in one place).

I was thinking about the exact same thing!

 

[DarkieBabZ]

Because Steam in essence is lending you the game for a long period of time. When I spend money buying a game I want physical possession of it and not having games deleted from my computer because I break one of steam's rules. (No, I never been banned on steam, but I will just never support or install steam on principle).

That's why I never played console games, the manufacturers set so many restrictions on the hardware even though I would have spend hundreds of dollars to purchase the console. I hope one day PC will have sport games again as I have missed playing sport games for years.

Thats the only negative thing about steam tbh. However not all games on steam that I own are from steam! some of them can be installed separate! But yes, if you buy solo on steam its a lease!! you even agree that without any reasons they can terminate you.. sometimes there is crazy mistakes and people end up getting banned without reason! I once had a steam friend who tired this! he lost access to his account for several months before restored!! his crime was that he had won a game on a gift page and the gift was from another region..

As you might have noticed, the problem here is the support.. its awful!! personal I never had any problems with Steam and I like it.. but thats another discussion for another time ^^

 

[s1234567890m]

I was thinking about the exact same thing!

It doesnt work like that, unless they cease support for that game and continue on only supporting one distro for that game.(see king arthur) Here they are announcing that EU4 will be steam only, not vickky or the others.

Thats the only negative thing about steam tbh. However not all games on steam that I own are from steam! some of them can be installed separate! But yes, if you buy solo on steam its a lease!! you even agree that without any reasons they can terminate you.. sometimes there is crazy mistakes and people end up getting banned without reason! I once had a steam friend who tired this! he lost access to his account for several months before restored!! his crime was that he had won a game on a gift page and the gift was from another region..

As you might have noticed, the problem here is the support.. its awful!! personal I never had any problems with Steam and I like it.. but thats another discussion for another time ^^

Fortunetly PDS steam games dont require steam running to work, sucks if you want to buy a new DLC tho