Wish I could ignore the entire post but sadly the nightmare has come true.
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Wish I could ignore the entire post but sadly the nightmare has come true.
Crap talk? A guy just more or less said he's going to pirate the game and you're upset a game dev is voicing his opinion on someone essentially stealing his work?
There are some loyal fans out there who won't be pirating the game but still won't be buying anything on Steam. We're making a choice to vote with our wallet.
I've skipped Civilization V and Sword of the Stars II and at first both of those were hard to miss. Though in the long run I've begun to see the discipline as worth while. You'll see I buy most of the in-house titles. What you don't see is the DLC's (almost all of them) I bought for CK II even though I rarely play it. And I'm a positive voice out there for the company, introducing others to the brand. Paradox games aren't really mainstream here in my area.
So I hope we're not being written off. I want Paradox to be profitable and don't understand how you can add Linux and drop your loyal Gamersgate fans at, what seems, the same market percentage. I simply won't get to continue on with you until the Steam fad is over. But as I said earlier, I'm holding out hope for now.
I've skipped Civilization V and Sword of the Stars II and at first both of those were hard to miss. Though in the long run I've begun to see the discipline as worth while. You'll see I buy most of the in-house titles. What you don't see is the DLC's (almost all of them) I bought for CK II even though I rarely play it. And I'm a positive voice out there for the company, introducing others to the brand. Paradox games aren't really mainstream here in my area.
So I hope we're not being written off. I want Paradox to be profitable and don't understand how you can add Linux and drop your loyal Gamersgate fans at, what seems, the same market percentage. I simply won't get to continue on with you until the Steam fad is over. But as I said earlier, I'm holding out hope for now.
The reason they can provide Linux support is because of Steam. If Steam wasn't going to be supporting Linux then Paradox wouldn't be either.
When I read KyeSteltek's post I assumed he meant his alternative to be not buying the game.
Then I read Darkrenown's post where he seems to assume otherwise (if you don't Dark, I'm sorry, but that's how you come off in that post), and that KyeSteltek meant he was going to pirate the game as his alternative.
It was indeed disappointing to me to read that a dev seems to assume that post meant he'd be a thief. I don't begrudge Darkrenown his opinion, but I don't think it was a good idea to focus it at KyeSteltek's post as he essentially accused him of being a thief. And yes, that is insulting if KyeSteltek meant his alternative as being he'd just not buy the game, and it is somewhat insulting to everyone else who would not buy the game due to it being Steam only as they might have said the same that KyeSteltek did.
Linux support is becoming more and more widespread in the gaming world. Valve is not the only company starting to support it. Sans Steam I'd wager a bit that Paradox would be supporting Linux within a couple years on it's own for the same reason it says it hopped on the Steam bandwagon: too many of it's playerbase uses it to ignore it. The use of Linux is growing, and I expect it to explode in the coming years if Microsoft sticks with the direction it's taken with Windows 8. And yes, I realize they currently don't support Macs, but I'll wager Linux will eclipse Macs in OS market share, as those who leave Windows tend to go to Linux and not Macs.
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Are there any alternatives besides steam? If it was a question of PC/Mac/Linux I can see emulators coming into play, but this is a method of obtaining the game, and we already know that it will be steam only.
Two alternatives so far.
One: You wait and sit until the game becomes available for GG. (Because a lot of us guys won't buy the game until it comes to GG)...
OR...
Two: You walk the path of being a total dick and download a pirated version.
Although pirated games are the main reason why a good percentage of people are here and buy Paradox stuff...
Still, it's a shame having a single on-line store to sell their games.
PI showed that they don't really care about the 5% of us that buys from GG.
I will not buy the game until it's released on GG, and I also hope PI continues to distribute their game via GG.
Steam is not an alternative. I will not buy a license to play Paradox games via Steam! I want the full game with all setup files and key like GG does!
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Which you know is not going to happen.
You are still buying a licence from GG. Yes, you have the setup files (which you can also ask Steam to give you, for the record), but you have the same rights with Steam as with GG.
Great, perhaps also be a man of reading entire posts and note the last line. If you do not intend to pirate games my post does not apply to you, does it?
It's different.
If you get banned from Steam, you wont be able to download your games and you can't play them (If you do, it'ill be considered pirating, even knowing you paid for the game, go figure).
In GG, you have the setup files (If you copied all downloaded files to a different folder) and key and the damage won't be big. You will be able to play all the games you purchased, since you don't require GG or GG client to play them.
That's the big difference, but we already had this conversation on this topic...
That's assuming you made sure to store your setup files. Per default, GG will rid you of your setup.exe-file, and you must 'work around GG's client' to obtain the file. It's doable, yes, but it is certainly not intended. In the same vain that it is doable with Steam.
But riddle me this; why would you be banned from either Steam or GG?
That's why you must copy-past the files after downloading, even if the installer initiates, you still can copy.
Good question, you can be banned and not knowing the reason.
It can be random, http://www.geek.com/articles/games/steam-proves-we-dont-own-the-games-we-buy-2012021/ See this example.
And have all games blocked.
That's the difference between GG and Steam. Even if you don't require steam to play some games, you won't be able to play all of them, since Steam is required for most of them.
GG is not required for any of the games I purchased and that makes me an happy costumer. I can play all sort of games whenever I want, when I want without having a client...
The advantages between GG and Steam are enormous for GG, but heck with it, 5% are not in Paradox view and we (the GG 5%) are worth the same as nothing to Paradox...
I do not pretend that Steam is perfect. I too am weary when I purchase a game through Steam. It's more a case of 'I'd rather purchase it through something else, if possible', but in case that is not possible, I will reflect on the specific game; i.e. is it worth to own it through Steam? And in that case, I prefer to own as few games as possible through Steam. If you'll notice, only highly prolifient gamers and people will large game ownership end up getting banned. It's a decent way to stay out of Steam's radar.
Europa Universalis IV is a game I am willing to own through Steam if that is the only option. When you buy anything you run a risk. In case of losing setup files (or CDs), one would argue that it would be one's own fault. But Steam ridding you of your games?
Again, depends on the type of game you purchase. EU4 will not likely require Steam to run (it will require Steam for when using the network API, so when playing multiplayer, though), and given your situation, it will be the only game you get to own through Steam. Furthermore, Paradox games don't even require installers for you to copy your game from one machine to another. You just copy the files, and it runs. That is unlikely to change.
That's perfectly all right, if you do not believe EU4 is good enough for you to compromise on your principles. I respect that. I personally agree with these principles, but I have decided that fighting Steam is not a battle worth my time, I'd rather fight from inside to help Steam improve and mend its ways.
And when Steam becomes as large as it is (particularly with distributing non-game software), it will also reach the sight of governments, that will force Steam to alternate its behaviours and terms of service.
I support Steam for their Linux engagement, which is important to me. In my observations, Steam is 'bettering'. Steam will hardly satisfy you any time soon (it still requires a client), but it is unlikely to get worse.
But, as have been said by a developer, this is not the case with PDS games so I don't see how this discussion even belongs here.
In my humble opinion here is the "problem", a reason why Steam is having having so much more sales then any other service...
Many people buy stuff on steam when it's on sale just because it's dirt cheap and it's got decent metacritics rating. They may or may not play that game in recent future or ever at all (I know this... damn you GoG, it's set for the next 5 years). What they did tho is added +1 sale for team Steam.
I'd assume many people on this forum and people who are big fans of this games are somewhat more equally divided between Steam and other services (hence big backlash on forums). But when you put it in business perspective it's different. I do not like this, but what can I do?
I bought my copy of CK2 (first paradox game) at Paradox's own webshop(which is in beta, and horrid, horrid also) but I still had to use Steam. Using Steam as distribution platform is somewhat acceptable, but fact that they can ban you without even telling you why and restrict access for something you payed is... frightening. Makes you feel powerless, abused, humiliated, cheated, robbed and used. Many people don't think about possible implications while using many of today popular services and regard ones who do care as crazy people, paranoid freaks, who would format their remote drive to remove all traces of "evuil Steam".
I don't know what's there to be done, but speaking from personal examples what got me to yield and buy a game that's activated thru Steam is following:
1) it does not have DRM and I can run it without Steam (If I had CD, it too could be broken so if one day I cant play anymore, that's fine to a certain point, tho it doesn't need to in this day and age, as some other services demonstrate)
2) Lot's of people praised this game, AAR's, let's plays and so on. On this point, maybe some of the people who created some of that content that got me into it all are among who will not use Steam which may or may not result in less of unpaid advertisement.
Many people buy stuff on steam when it's on sale just because it's dirt cheap and it's got decent metacritics rating. They may or may not play that game in recent future or ever at all (I know this... damn you GoG, it's set for the next 5 years). What they did tho is added +1 sale for team Steam.
I'd assume many people on this forum and people who are big fans of this games are somewhat more equally divided between Steam and other services (hence big backlash on forums). But when you put it in business perspective it's different. I do not like this, but what can I do?
I bought my copy of CK2 (first paradox game) at Paradox's own webshop(which is in beta, and horrid, horrid also) but I still had to use Steam. Using Steam as distribution platform is somewhat acceptable, but fact that they can ban you without even telling you why and restrict access for something you payed is... frightening. Makes you feel powerless, abused, humiliated, cheated, robbed and used. Many people don't think about possible implications while using many of today popular services and regard ones who do care as crazy people, paranoid freaks, who would format their remote drive to remove all traces of "evuil Steam".
I don't know what's there to be done, but speaking from personal examples what got me to yield and buy a game that's activated thru Steam is following:
1) it does not have DRM and I can run it without Steam (If I had CD, it too could be broken so if one day I cant play anymore, that's fine to a certain point, tho it doesn't need to in this day and age, as some other services demonstrate)
2) Lot's of people praised this game, AAR's, let's plays and so on. On this point, maybe some of the people who created some of that content that got me into it all are among who will not use Steam which may or may not result in less of unpaid advertisement.
Finally, you open yourself about steam.
I cannot buy something that I know it's not me who's in control. It will come to a guy pushing a button and voila, good bye, you no more own the games you just bought.
EUIV is a game that a lot of people are eager to own, I am one of those people, I just want to play it like I've been doing in the past 13 years all Europa Universalis games series, BUT I cannot comply with Paradox policy regarding Steam.
I decide if I install or not a client, I decide what I want to do with the game and setup files, etc.
I would gladly pay 50€ to buy the game. But I will not do it since it's all monopolized by Steam. I know, simple economics. Paradox only chose the platform that gives more money, but damn it, 5% is still a lot of clients!
There's 500k Paradox forums members. Of those, let's say 200k buy PI games. They will not buy all the same game, for sure. But let's say that 5% of those people will not buy a game from Steam.
That gives 10k people that need an alternative.
Even if the EU universe is 50k people, 5% of those people (2500) will mean a lot of money. If each of these people buy the EUIV for 50€, it will give Paradox a revenue of 125k€.
So there's a lot of people that want to buy EUIV from GG, but are not allowed to since there aren't another alternative.
So I will continue to wait for Paradox to change their minds, because I would gladly pay 50€ for EUIV.
And sir, I don't agree with you. No service can be "bettering" when it forces and TOS that states that you can't sue them, you are obliged to accept terms of service or else you lose complete access to all your games.
There's something I read on the internet, and I totally agree with it:
So yes, I won't install Steam, but by doing so, I will not be able to buy EUIV.
It will be hard, but one thing is certain, I will not give a cent to steam. And I ask Paradox to reconsider, because there are a lot of folks that would pay - without hesitation - to buy the game from GamersGate.
And heck, didn't you Paradox create GG? What's the sense of leaving GG to the fishes?!
I buy all my games from there, I usually pay more to do so, BUT I DO IT TO HELP PARADOX. Since you get a bigger share of the cake, if I'm not wrong...
So you should have more respect from the GG people!
You sir are totally right!
But still, for some peoples, you got to eat it and shut the F*** up. Even making fun of other's with their stupid posts about "do that and even that, and at the end, just destroy your computer so that you won't have any trace at all of steam, and buy a random guy's cd to take away all evil spirits"
It's like, every single Paradox costumers is a voice to be eared, and not be make fun of!
We do have concerns and Paradox moves on the money the people pay for their product.
You do realise that Terms of Service have restrictions on what they can require? In many countries - mine included - arbitration clauses in end-user contracts (which this effectively is) are not permitted, and thus these clauses are effectively null and void. You cannot say everything in a Terms of Service, it simply won't hold up in court. You can sue Valve, hell, you can perform a class-action suit against them. Well, in Europe, you have to sue them through Luxembourg:
Do note the following language: "However, where the laws of Luxembourg provide a lower degree of consumer protection than the laws of your country of residence, the consumer protection laws of your country shall prevail." Or put in another way, they cannot waive my right to form a class-action suit against them, because my country's consumer protection laws don't allow them to.
Actually, reading through it, it is only the non-EU subscribers that waive their right to class-action lawsuits:
Emphasis mine.
Oh, and for the record, GamersGate's clause says this:
GOG:
I haven't seen any developer say that will be the case with EU4. I've only seen developers confirm what we all know, that it's not the case with current games.
Despite fanboy assertions that it will be the case with EU4, developers actually seem quite careful about NOT saying that will be the case in EU4. In fact there have been several developer comments about features in Steamworks, the API, and multiplayer, that sound like the Steam is going to be more integrated into EU4, meaning it might not be able to run in an offline mode, at all. They may not go full DRM in EU4 (though I haven't even seen anything definitive about DRM, either), but I'm guessing the push for Steam has as much or more to do with taking advantage of Steam "features" as it does with cutting out alternative delivery systems.
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