Steam Open BETA Patch v2.0.2 now live

[Kipperian]

Thank you for the beta patch!! It was really needed. I will test it tomorrow but I would like to make 2 comments:
-I think that as a catholic you should be able also to mend the schism.
-Any news about the Pope regaining the Papacy shortly after conquest by player or AI? It is a quite gamebreaking issue.

I would appreciate the devs comments a lot, thank you

 

[Hennenz]

-I think that as a catholic you should be able also to mend the schism.

It does kinda bother me why we can't do this. Mending the schism of the Christian faith is just that. I don't see why it is necessary which side "wins".

 

[Sleight of Hand]

It does kinda bother me why we can't do this. Mending the schism of the Christian faith is just that. I don't see why it is necessary which side "wins".

I think the idea was that it should be a perk for people who bought LoR, and so was focused on Orthodoxy.

 

[SDSkinner]

Odd, I never actually noticed any of them ever taking a Pilgrimage. I know they aren't supposed to be all the time things but it seems different that the only Pilgrims I ever see are my own characters.

ai_will_do = {
factor = 0.001 # Only a minority of Catholics ever go on a pilgrimage
modifier = {
factor = 0
NOT = { age = 25 }
}
modifier = {
factor = 3
trait = zealous
}
}

If you want more Christians to pilgrimage, just increase the factor inside the decision file.

I think the idea was that it should be a perk for people who bought LoR, and so was focused on Orthodoxy.

That and taking the Pentarchy means you have either conquered most of Orthodoxy already (so it is a bit redundant) or it is in Russia (in which case historically you'd get the 3rd Rome and the Schism wouldn't be mended).

 

[superskierpat]

ai_will_do = {
factor = 0.001 # Only a minority of Catholics ever go on a pilgrimage
modifier = {
factor = 0
NOT = { age = 25 }
}
modifier = {
factor = 3
trait = zealous
}
}

If you want more Christians to pilgrimage, just increase the factor inside the decision file.

I think the way to go would be to only make the decision available to characters that express zealousness, patience, devotion or are sick (Or have family sick). That would limit the player excess.

 

[jordarkelf]

It does kinda bother me why we can't do this. Mending the schism of the Christian faith is just that. I don't see why it is necessary which side "wins".

From the Orthodox POV, the Schism is mended when the Pope is once again only seen as one of the five Patriarchs.

From the Catholic POV, there is no space for multiple Patriarchs with powers equal to the Pope, let alone one for each kingdom... that is why the decision does not exist for Catholics. To mend the Schism as a Catholic, simply wipe out Orthodoxy.

 

[Hennenz]

I think the idea was that it should be a perk for people who bought LoR, and so was focused on Orthodoxy.

That is fair I guess. At least initially, but it has been some time since LoR. I mean, how many man hours would it really take for them to add this vs. how much of the community would use it? Seems like a no brainer to me, but who knows.

From the Orthodox POV, the Schism is mended when the Pope is once again only seen as one of the five Patriarchs.

From the Catholic POV, there is no space for multiple Patriarchs with powers equal to the Pope, let alone one for each kingdom... that is why the decision does not exist for Catholics. To mend the Schism as a Catholic, simply wipe out Orthodoxy.

Well, yeah. Obviously wiping out the Orthodoxy is obvious. My point is that a really interesting event is wasted on an arbitrary limitation. Do you really believe that the games current restriction is important?

 

[TeutonicDane23]

Still wondering? Should I start a new game with the beta or the old patch.

Is my beta save going to be compatible when it comes out as an official patch?

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Still no can_hold_temples = yes for Lollards?

In the mean time, you can try my mod, though it hasn't been updated with the new patch's religion file...

For Paradox, what allowing modders to enable matrilineal marriages in republics?

 

[jordarkelf]

Well, yeah. Obviously wiping out the Orthodoxy is obvious. My point is that a really interesting event is wasted on an arbitrary limitation. Do you really believe that the games current restriction is important?

Given that the event is 100% based on owning and controlling the five Patriarch seats, yes. It makes no sense at all for to just copy the 'Mending the Schism' as it exists in-game with a Catholic version.

Whereas if the Pope should be replaced by a Patriarch of Rome who accepts his status as no more important than the Patriarch of Antioch this would mean a massive blow to Catholicism and could very well lead to a re-aligning of Roman Catholicism with the Orthodox system, the reverse is not true.

Just because the Patriarchs of Alexandria and Jerusalem were lost, the Orthodox Church did not abolish itself, and neither so when Antioch was lost in turn. Heck there is still a Patriarch of Constantinople, despite the fact that Constantinople was conquered by the muslim hordes six centuries ago!

---

The Orthodox Church has many leaders, the Catholic Church has only one. Therefore a decision to Mend the Schism based on having all historical five leaders is an Orthodox one, and cannot possibly be a Catholic one.
A Catholic 'Mend the Schism' would mean the abolishing of the Patriarchs, both the five (four) Pentarchy seats, and any Autocephalous ones. Roman Catholicism has no autocephaly.

 

[superskierpat]

The Orthodox Church has many leaders, the Catholic Church has only one. Therefore a decision to Mend the Schism based on having all historical five leaders is an Orthodox one, and cannot possibly be a Catholic one.
A Catholic 'Mend the Schism' would mean the abolishing of the Patriarchs, both the five (four) Pentarchy seats, and any Autocephalous ones. Roman Catholicism has no autocephaly.

There are still patriarchs in the catholic church, would be interesting if we could reinstate the patriarchs but have them vassalised to the Pope.

 

[NihilCredo]

That's absolutely hilarious. This turns everything upside down -- instead of the AI tricking the player into matrilinear like before, you can now trick the AI!

I'm curious to see what kind of crazy-fast conquests you can do with this. Start with someone who has a huge number of underage daughters (maybe that Ylving king in 1066, or more likely some Muslim ruler with four fertile concubines) and every single one can win you a kingdom as soon as they turn 16 and pop out a child.

 

[jordarkelf]

There are still patriarchs in the catholic church, would be interesting if we could reinstate the patriarchs but have them vassalised to the Pope.

Sure, but the Pope is above all. That is the core of the Schism -- the Pope in Rome is not just 'First Among Equals', but the highest authority. That was unacceptable to the Orthodox Churches, who felt any Patriarch was in essence equal, with the Ecumenical Patriarch just a little more equal than the rest. (And yes, that is extremely over-simplifying things.)

Had the Pope accepted a role like the Ecumenical Patriarch, would the Schism still have occurred? That is a nice question I don't think anyone can answer. Likely the Pope would never have accepted such a diminishing in rank.

Would there be Patriarchs still if the Catholics won? Hell yeah! Just look at the Fourth Crusade, the Ecumenical Patriarch was forced to flee with the Emperor, and in his place a Latin Patriarch was installed. But these 'Latin Patriarchs' are not like the Patriarchs of the Eastern Rites, who head their own Church (but still under the authority of the Pope), instead they are little more than glorified archbishops with a pretty title, and they are certainly not comparable to the Orthodox Patriarchs.

None of the Patriarchs within the Catholic Church ever held an equal rank to the Pope.

 

[dtsouza]

Is it supposed to work for older savefiles? Because just today it happened to me the problem with the AI not accepting to go through with betrothals and after opting in on this patch, it changed nothing.

 

[balmung60]

Exported allowance of matrilineal marriages to moddable? Welp, time to make fully enatic Muslims a thing.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

In the mean time, you can try my mod, though it hasn't been updated with the new patch's religion file...

Updated for patch, and added muslim style demane laws.

 

[KexanR]

Ok so there's a huge exploit with the "AI will always honour betrothal thing". Namely, when the betrothed come of age you can switch from regular to matrilineal and the AI will always accept. E.g. start in 1066, get the King of France to betroth your daughter, he will marry her matriliineally.

This should really be fixed before the patch leaves beta. I'll open a thread in bug reports.

That was already fixed in 2.0.1:

AI: Will no longer accept a matrilineal marriage if the betrothal was non-matrilineal and vice versa

 

[Lucavi]

The game crashes when you try to play with a republic in this new patch. At least with me.

 

[Chevaresqye]

Sure, but the Pope is above all. That is the core of the Schism -- the Pope in Rome is not just 'First Among Equals', but the highest authority. That was unacceptable to the Orthodox Churches, who felt any Patriarch was in essence equal, with the Ecumenical Patriarch just a little more equal than the rest. (And yes, that is extremely over-simplifying things.)

Had the Pope accepted a role like the Ecumenical Patriarch, would the Schism still have occurred? That is a nice question I don't think anyone can answer. Likely the Pope would never have accepted such a diminishing in rank.

Would there be Patriarchs still if the Catholics won? Hell yeah! Just look at the Fourth Crusade, the Ecumenical Patriarch was forced to flee with the Emperor, and in his place a Latin Patriarch was installed. But these 'Latin Patriarchs' are not like the Patriarchs of the Eastern Rites, who head their own Church (but still under the authority of the Pope), instead they are little more than glorified archbishops with a pretty title, and they are certainly not comparable to the Orthodox Patriarchs.

None of the Patriarchs within the Catholic Church ever held an equal rank to the Pope.

Well, I don't think Western European Noble would mass convert to Orthodox even if Rome and Four other Holy Sees fall in hand of Orthodox either. Mending the Schism is far more unrealistic than reforming pagan, so let Catholics have some fun holy waring their Orthodox brethrens.

 

[Rationalsanity]

Well, I don't think Western European Noble would mass convert to Orthodox even if Rome and Four other Holy Sees fall in hand of Orthodox either. Mending the Schism is far more unrealistic than reforming pagan, so let Catholics have some fun holy waring their Orthodox brethrens.

To say nothing of having a substantial amount of the general Catholic population convert overnight. Shifts like that would take at least a generation or two, if they ever happened.