Steam only distribution and DRM on this game as well?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Octavio

Colonel
53 Badges
Aug 5, 2007
946
59
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Deus Vult
  • Rome Gold
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
Isnt CK2 one of the most-selled games in GG? Just sort the products by popularity and you will see. Its therefore highly unlikely that GG will not have EU4, right?

Well, for my part, i HATE Steam. The impossibility to play offline is a real pain. I also hate the store advertisements, cloud-sync error messages, ETC. And that hatred began, uhrm, about more than 10 years ago when I purchased Counterstrike.
Thats why I will be one of those who will be 100% against a Steam-only version. But, since its Paradox that brought me to GG, i would follow them to Steam if its the only way.
 

s1234567890m

Mwahahahahaha
53 Badges
Dec 26, 2010
3.224
196
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • King Arthur II
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2 A House Divided Beta
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Pride of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron: The Card Game
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Isnt CK2 one of the most-selled games in GG? Just sort the products by popularity and you will see. Its therefore highly unlikely that GG will not have EU4, right?

Well, for my part, i HATE Steam. The impossibility to play offline is a real pain. I also hate the store advertisements, cloud-sync error messages, ETC. And that hatred began, uhrm, about more than 10 years ago when I purchased Counterstrike.
Thats why I will be one of those who will be 100% against a Steam-only version. But, since its Paradox that brought me to GG, i would follow them to Steam if its the only way.
Can be turned off, combned with CK2 not using steam DRM it does not require the steam client installed to run, only update and for initial installation

Part of that might be that with the initial announcement that CKII was going to be Steam only, a proportion of the users who would normally buy on GG felt forced to buy it through Steam instead. Under those circumstances, that is going to skew your data. Then of course once someone has bought the core game on Steam they are then locked into it and can't buy DLC/Expansions elsewhere.
I'd also be interested in whether that Steam share includes the other sales that effectively gave a Steam activation code only. If so, that's going to boost the Steam market share even further, compared to previous games where the boxed retail copies (which you've said you're intending to phase out as well, but that's a slightly different point - it takes the company out of the eye of anyone who shops in games stores) could obtain expansions on GG. Basically the switch to retail copies using Steam will mean that the expansions and DLC that would previously have been bought through GG are now bought on Steam instead.

Just a thought as to why some of that shift in numbers will have happened.

Pre CK2 numbers were given at around 80% and more for steam, 7% for GG, and ~5% for retail the rest was divided between 22 other distributors (sengoku and another game but i dont remember the specifics)

If you buy the base game on GG you are then locked into it and can't buy DLC/Expansions elsewhere
 

Sn3ipen

Bourgeoisie Capitalist Rentseeker
80 Badges
Apr 19, 2011
1.413
1.360
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Darkest Hour
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings III
The reason that only CK2 versions bought on GG didn't need Steam is because they need to deliver the patches to people and they want to sell DLC's. How do you do that on a boxed version, without making your own interface and payment system for a DLC store? That's resources that could be better spent elsewhere. They would even get paid more for DLC's in it's own store, yet still they want to use steam. Maintaining your own store is not that easy and they know all about it from creating GG.

They could have made it GG only but GG don't have a nice interface for reminding players to buy the newest DLC or game, every time they want to play the game. Some people simply don't know where to look to get the latest and greatest DLC or patch.

I don't like Steam monopoly but I don't think they have to many choices.
 
Last edited:

KomodoWaran

Kohlgroßherzog
163 Badges
Apr 7, 2007
282
38
  • 200k Club
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Knights of Honor
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Sengoku
  • March of the Eagles
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris
Does that mean that you consider the patches to be DRM as well? After all, if you reinstall, you have to go to the website or tell the launcher to do so in order to recover the patches.
No I do not, because the patches come in the form of an exe file which I can backup and reinstall later without having to download it again.
 

James The 1st

Field Marshal
57 Badges
May 23, 2009
2.831
9
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Lead and Gold
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Look at what Civilization 5 has degenerated to today due to Steamization. They had a live, fledgling and well organized modding community until Civ5 came out with Steam-enforcement, but besides a few "commercial mods"/spin-offs, the Civ5 and Total War modding communities are shadows of themselves. And that's definitely NOT due to declining sales. ;)
Hold on, Civ 5's modding scene isn't terrible because of Steam. It's because Fraxis hasn't released code access like they did with Civ 4. CKII's mods seem to be doing well also.
 
Last edited:

tului

General
109 Badges
Oct 27, 2009
2.113
303
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Victoria 2 A House Divided Beta
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
I doubt there will be any physical copies sold in 2013.

Even if you were to sell them as "Collector's Editions" and charge upwards of $80 or $90 USD a box? I know if you tossed in a couple of tin soldiers and a cloth map I'd pay $100 for a boxed copy. Dunno how others feel.
 

unmerged(111705)

Sergeant
30 Badges
Aug 21, 2008
50
0
  • Majesty 2
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2 A House Divided Beta
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Legio
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Galactic Assault
  • For The Glory
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • East India Company
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
Its not that simple..

Making multiple versions of a game costs money.. If one version also provide you with lots of development benefits, as steam workshop does, then you either have to sell a crippled version to others, or spend a lot of extra money on a tiny fraction of customers.

GG used to be 25% of our games... now its less than 5% and Steam keeps increasing.

yeah, this is exactly what I was referring to. thanks for the answer, johan. making two different versions, and having one with less features or crippled. how tempting is it to go full on with steam features like workshop and the achievements and that? I appreciate how easy it is for the team to take advantage of this stuff, and that you do better business over steam compared to anything else.

but this added stuff the walled in mod support and achievements and cloud saves, better sales for the company and the ease of development does nothing for me personally, and even the paradox connect stuff was something I just barely looked at once and just didn't see any reason for it existing.

and I'll add my personal history with steam. since some people seem to think I'm coming from the retail only or whatever thing, welcome to the future grandpa. that's not the case, I used steam from hl2 came out until end of 2009 (I had around 150 games on there). I had a ton of problems with it directly technically with the software and the underlying systems (not just when hl2 came out, but constantly until I stopped using it). then there's also that I really don't agree with any of the user agreement for it. I had several nasty run-ins with their customer support and it just got to a point where it just got too frustrating to deal with their bullshit. I will just never ever use steam or buy any valve game ever again. so when and if paradox go steam only, that's it for me. honestly doesn't matter if the game itself doesn't have drm, if anything has to go through steam the downloading or if I have to put a serial key into steam I'll never buy or play it.
 

Jaol

Kapudan Pasha
56 Badges
Jan 24, 2011
3.755
313
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sengoku
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
No I do not, because the patches come in the form of an exe file which I can backup and reinstall later without having to download it again.
How is any of this different than just backing up your game? Once you've downloaded CK2 or any of its DLC you can just copy the files and save them somewhere else. I currently have multiple versions of CK2 saved of my desktop each with different level of patches/DLC. That way I can still look at the pre-SoI mods I was working on.
 

Sn3ipen

Bourgeoisie Capitalist Rentseeker
80 Badges
Apr 19, 2011
1.413
1.360
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Darkest Hour
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings III
Even if you were to sell them as "Collector's Editions" and charge upwards of $80 or $90 USD a box? I know if you tossed in a couple of tin soldiers and a cloth map I'd pay $100 for a boxed copy. Dunno how others feel.

Put in some of Johans used underwear and double the price. :p

Just kidding. I would definitely buy a box. The version without the underwear.
 

Blastaz

Field Marshal
167 Badges
Nov 19, 2003
2.892
5.782
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
Even if you were to sell them as "Collector's Editions" and charge upwards of $80 or $90 USD a box? I know if you tossed in a couple of tin soldiers and a cloth map I'd pay $100 for a boxed copy. Dunno how others feel.

The JC bust from the EU:Rome CE is such a cool piece of swag, especially when you consider it wasn't very much more expensive....
 

Lexar_kg

Major
41 Badges
Feb 7, 2010
616
76
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • King Arthur II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Darkest Hour
  • Cities in Motion
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Look at what Civilization 5 has degenerated to today due to Steamization. They had a live, fledgling and well organized modding community until Civ5 came out with Steam-enforcement, but besides a few "commercial mods"/spin-offs, the Civ5 and Total War modding communities are shadows of themselves. And that's definitely NOT due to declining sales.
Well said!
I don't play for months in PI's vanilla games. Only mods.
And my Civ5 forgotten after addon - mostly due to lack of interest to vanilla.
I wouldn't use Steam because of it policy.
No one can have more rights on my computer than me!
 

SirkTheMonkey

Field Marshal
79 Badges
Feb 10, 2012
4.512
7
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Magicka
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Look at what Civilization 5 has degenerated to today due to Steamization. They had a live, fledgling and well organized modding community until Civ5 came out with Steam-enforcement, but besides a few "commercial mods"/spin-offs, the Civ5 and Total War modding communities are shadows of themselves. And that's definitely NOT due to declining sales.
I'll admit that I'm a bit of a Steam apologist but I don't think you can blame Steam for the crimes that were committed against the Civ and Total War franchises. I believe it was the publishers who asked/mandated that the code be less exposed and less user friendly; how are you supposed to sell $5 civilisation / faction DLC packs if any old modder could duplicate the effect themselves and distribute it for free?
I've only been playing PDS games for a few months but from what I've experienced and what I've read they haven't hit us with DRM yet, even when they started focusing on Steam as a distribution channel, so I see no reason why they would start now.
 

Burning

Arms, Armistice 'n Revolutions
33 Badges
Mar 25, 2004
2.322
3
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • East India Company
  • Deus Vult
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
I'll admit that I'm a bit of a Steam apologist but I don't think you can blame Steam for the crimes that were committed against the Civ and Total War franchises. I believe it was the publishers who asked/mandated that the code be less exposed and less user friendly; how are you supposed to sell $5 civilisation / faction DLC packs if any old modder could duplicate the effect themselves and distribute it for free?
Actually Civ5 is at least equally moddable as the predecessors, it even retained the Lua scripting possibility and the xml file structure of Civ4. Most of what later was released as DLC was previously modded in by players (of course with added fancy 3d animations), so they also didn't artificially cripple the mod support. The main difference really is really just the Steam-gateway for mods, and that it's now hex based (which I highly doubt has any influence on the modding community). With TW however, "design crimes" by CA definitely played a role in their communities decline...
 

KomodoWaran

Kohlgroßherzog
163 Badges
Apr 7, 2007
282
38
  • 200k Club
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Knights of Honor
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Sengoku
  • March of the Eagles
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris
How is any of this different than just backing up your game? Once you've downloaded CK2 or any of its DLC you can just copy the files and save them somewhere else. I currently have multiple versions of CK2 saved of my desktop each with different level of patches/DLC. That way I can still look at the pre-SoI mods I was working on.
I agree that what you describe is certainly useful for mods especially in regard to V2, but I don't think it really works as a proper backup plan.
Unpacked Clausewitz games consist of a large number of files so it takes much longer to move them around than it does for a single exe file. I think convenience is a valid point here.
And there is the big problem that it might not even work if you want "reinstall" at a later point in time. For example a while ago after I had to rebuild my OS, I tried to start an old EU3 installation but the game refused to start because it couldn't find the registry entries for the latest expansion.
Admittedly I still have to do some experimenting with CK2, but right now I have no information that there is a way around going online for a clean reinstall.
 

Sn3ipen

Bourgeoisie Capitalist Rentseeker
80 Badges
Apr 19, 2011
1.413
1.360
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Darkest Hour
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings III
I tried to start an old EU3 installation but the game refused to start because it couldn't find the registry entries for the latest expansion.

Just take a backup of those registry lines as well then.
 

KomodoWaran

Kohlgroßherzog
163 Badges
Apr 7, 2007
282
38
  • 200k Club
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Knights of Honor
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Sengoku
  • March of the Eagles
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris
Just take a backup of those registry lines as well then.
That seems needlessly complicated.
Well, in the case of EU3 I fortunately don't have to go through all the trouble, since I can just use the installers I originally downloaded from Gamersgate to create a clean new installation.
 

Cerwyn

Corporal
92 Badges
Feb 17, 2012
34
7
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Knights of Honor
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
Sad... on the other hand, what do you expect? PI marketing is aggressively pushing sales on Steam, while minimally promoting their GamersGate game versions? I'm pretty sure 90% of your customers are not even aware that GamersGate exists. I continuously read on the forum announcements page that now that there is some Steam Sale going on; GamersGate also has those, but PI itself seems to almost never promote those as they do with Steam sales.

I don't pretend to be some kind of an expert on the subject, but I can understand how a company might favor using Steam over other digital distribution sites such as, say, GG or GOG.

I first made my Steam account in 2009, when I was forced to make one to authenticate my copy of Empire: Total War (Fan of that series since the first Medieval.) I bought in a store on release. At first I was pretty upset with Creative Assembly for making me have to get Steam to buy the game and I hated it. But over the years, I got "used to it". I learned and took advantage of various other things Steam has to offer - not just sales, but also access to community of like-minded gamers. I have, over the years, befriended quite a few of the people I played various games on Steam with, and then socialized with them using the Steam chat and discussed other things, such as other games. I'd see a friend playing a game, then later talk to him about that game, and in many cases, buy it if the friend recommends me the game (I don't remember the last time I bought a game simply because I read about it on a gaming journalist magazine or website, these days I buy games almost exclusively on whether I liked the previous games in the series/developer or if friends recommend it to me.). And the opposite is also the same, with me encouraging friends to buy games I play on Steam if I think they'd like them.

I believe social features such as these are the reason why Steam is so popular these days, and why the overwhelming majority of Paradox games seem to go through Steam. I don't use GG, so I don't know how it works, but I assume it's similar to GOG, that you buy the game on your account on the website, then download it to your PC and play it, DRM-free. While I can obviously understand how a lot of people might prefer that system, simply because of the social features, I find Steam much more convenient. These days, if I have the choice of getting a game on Steam or a non-Steam version, I choose to rather get the Steam version. (I still like owning boxes and physical DVDs and stuff, but I also like being able to authenticate those retail copies on Steam.) And thankfully, if I do have some internet issues and can't connect and it won't let me go in Steam Offline mode for whatever reason, Paradox games use no DRM so I can always just launch the game from the folder and play it.

I think a lot of developers and publishers also understand how powerful Steam social features are at spreading the news of various great video games and serving as a great way of advertising them, which is what is making them prefer Steam over other (non-DRM) types of digital distribution. But I don't think Paradox is going to stop selling games on GG anytime soon - there is always (As is evident in this thread, and many others on this subject from the past.) a number of people who will be against a "DRM" program such as Steam and would rather not buy the game at all than be "forced" to use Steam. So the solution to "push" Steam but still provide alternatives for the diehard critics of Steam seems like the best possible solution here.


I doubt there will be any physical copies sold in 2013.

I knows others have brought this up already, but have you considered maybe making some kind of Collector's Edition physical copies, with a slightly increased price and some additional goodies such as maps, manuals, maybe a "behind-the-scenes"/"making-of" DVD? So people who really enjoy collecting physical copies and such collector's items can order them shipped? I am certain a lot of people would be interested in getting that.
 

magitsu

Lt. General
72 Badges
Mar 5, 2011
1.567
113
  • Rome Gold
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
And there is the big problem that it might not even work if you want "reinstall" at a later point in time. For example a while ago after I had to rebuild my OS, I tried to start an old EU3 installation but the game refused to start because it couldn't find the registry entries for the latest expansion.
Yep, you are right that backing up the installer feels much more secure than backing up all decompressed files minus all possible registry entries the installer made.

I believe no-one wants to see (thus having to admit) the actual cost Pdx would incur to cater to few customers who want hard copy. +100% to digital release price might not be enough to maintain comparable profit. How many would buy 100 euro EU4 box?

Additional goodies, behind the scenes... the company has 22(?) persons on its payroll and EU4 is only one of their current franchises. Some dreams are not meant to be.

The main social feature of every Pdx game might be this forum. You don't just buy the game, you buy access to this forum (community). At least it feels like it once you learn to appreciate all the AARs etc.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(81596)

Sergeant
28 Badges
Aug 4, 2007
93
0
  • Majesty 2
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2 A House Divided Beta
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • East India Company Collection
  • Deus Vult
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion
How do you do that on a boxed version, without making your own interface and payment system for a DLC store? That's resources that could be better spent elsewhere. They would even get paid more for DLC's in it's own store, yet still they want to use steam. Maintaining your own store is not that easy and they know all about it from creating GG.
They (effectively) cannot use their own store due to steam changing their tos to (effectively) exclude 3rd party dlc handlers (per Mass effect 3/ BF3 etc; deeply ironic since valve expect other vendors to sell their integrated dlc handler no problems). Connect already had a fair bit of functionality necessary such as purchases for the HOI CCG and at one point was touted as being integrated into every Paradox title. It seems... coincidental that it got taken out back and drowned in a wine barrel shortly after valve changed their tos.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.