Steam only distribution and DRM on this game as well?

[DreadLindwyrm]

I would like to add my voice to the calls to make sure that the game is available through GG, and hopefully the other normal digital distributors.

I might not have purchased CKII at all had it not been on GG, as I am not keen on Steam. I just like to have the minimum of extraneous programs foisted on me. Especially ones that if launched automatically send my information to, or log me into, a company not directly related to what I'm doing.

I would also hope that there would be a physical release if it is practical, as this is what brought me into Paradox games in the first place. I hadn't heard of Paradox until I spoke to a friend who had the game and pointed it out in a games store. At the time I didn't have reliable internet access, so I wouldn't have been able to buy online.

 

[KomodoWaran]

I am a fan of Gamersgate, where I can download and install my games when and where I want ... unless they are Steam-only. >:-(

Anyway, CK2 is DRM-free on GG, however its DLCs as far as I know are not. My guess is that EU4 will also use the new DLC concept instead of expansions, so I expect a similar situation. I am not against the DLC themselves, I simply very much dislike the loss of control over my games that apparently comes with this change. What a pity, since the total lack of DRM was one of the reasons I initially became a Paradox fan.

 

[flame7926]

I am a fan of Gamersgate, where I can download and install my games when and where I want ... unless they are Steam-only. >:-(

Anyway, CK2 is DRM-free on GG, however its DLCs as far as I know are not. My guess is that EU4 will also use the new DLC concept instead of expansions, so I expect a similar situation. I am not against the DLC themselves, I simply very much dislike the loss of control over my games that apparently comes with this change. What a pity, since the total lack of DRM was one of the reasons I initially became a Paradox fan.

How do the DLC have DRM? You buy them in the in game store, download them, and thats it.

 

[Affenklaus]

Probably much to early to ask that but I'm more interested in if there will be goodies of some sort?
I'm not missing physical copies, as most of the games I buy by now are digital downloads, but what I do miss from 'the good ol' times' is bonus stuff like maps.
Again, GOG shows how this can work with digital only distribution, too. Adding a nicely drawn map or, if no free manpower is available to make new stuff for that purpose, things like wallpapers of the loading screens to the download would be awesome.

 

[KomodoWaran]

How do the DLC have DRM? You buy them in the in game store, download them, and thats it.

Yeah but that's the thing, you have to download them through the store. There is no installer that I can backup for later. If I want to do a reinstall in the future I have to go through the online store again. Correct me if I'm wrong.
To me that amounts to DRM insofar that it restricts my access to the product.

 

[Blastaz]

Yeah but that's the thing, you have to download them through the store. There is no installer that I can backup for later. If I want to do a reinstall in the future I have to go through the online store again. Correct me if I'm wrong.
To me that amounts to DRM insofar that it restricts my access to the product.

You are wrong, that is not DRM that is digital delivery.

 

[flame7926]

Yeah but that's the thing, you have to download them through the store. There is no installer that I can backup for later. If I want to do a reinstall in the future I have to go through the online store again. Correct me if I'm wrong.
To me that amounts to DRM insofar that it restricts my access to the product.

An installer still has to get it from the store, unless you mean downloaded but not installed. All it is is two files in the CK2 directory, so you could just back those up.

 

[s1234567890m]

Yeah but that's the thing, you have to download them through the store. There is no installer that I can backup for later. If I want to do a reinstall in the future I have to go through the online store again. Correct me if I'm wrong.
To me that amounts to DRM insofar that it restricts my access to the product.

...the dlc is in the game GG just activates it remember

As long as I'm able to buy and run the game without playing restrictions (steam), I'm fine. Steam by itself however is DRM, even if no traditional copy protection is applied. After all it runs in the background, logs and reports. Also, steam is required to be run to launch a game, which is 100% not needed for playing a game.

Right, and now our steam fanatics and paid posters will write: "Then go into offline mode! OMFG steam rulz, lol!". Even Valve admitted (go check their tech support forums) that offline mode only is active only if the steam services are unreachable for the steam client (thus, switching to offline mode essential does not affect communication between the steam client and their servers), last time they had server issues in Europe. In very simple words: Just setting it to offline mode does NOTHING, as long as it has Internet access.

So, why do I write this? Because else someday we won't be able to buy the next EU, HOI, CK or Vicky anywhere else but Steam.

...it doesnt need to be running to play PDS titles

 

[sumdood]

Don't like Steam? Just copy the game folder out of the Steam directory and you can delete Steam. While some games do use Steam as a means of DRM, Paradox does not; even the Steam versions of their games are fully functional without Steam. There is no downside to downloading a Paradox title through Steam versus any other digital download service.

 

[Kaelic]

People still complaining about Steam? I guess there are holdouts everywhere.

I also hear they're letting women vote soon, outrageous, down with change!

 

[KomodoWaran]

An installer still has to get it from the store, unless you mean downloaded but not installed. All it is is two files in the CK2 directory, so you could just back those up.

I am referring to an actual installer, namely an exe file that contains all the data needed to install a program without having access to the Internet.

Please tell me more about the files you mentioned. Where exactly are they located? What are they called? Have you already tested what you are proposing?

 

[Onedreamer]

Funny, because I have no problem what so ever with Steam's service. I find it easy to use and a very nice way to keep all my games in one spot. It's the fact that they're nearing monopoly status that worries me. It's not enough to make me stop using steam, but I support non-steam versions of things based on principle.

It's not a matter of issues with Steam services or not, but a matter of choice whether to use them or not. Because I am such a great geek that I can turn on a computer and double click a launch file or uncompress files to "install" a mod or a patch just fine, I do not need Steam "services" at all and I do not want to be forced to install and run useless third party software on my computer just to play a game, nor do I want to be forced in general to use my stuff in ways others think I should. Steam only game = no buy for me, it's as simple as that. Already happened with Civilization, after 4 versions plus expansions bought, Firaxis lost a loyal customer/fan and rest assured I was not the only one. And if they thought to fight piracy with Steam, well it seems to me they were wrong twice.

 

[KomodoWaran]

...the dlc is in the game GG just activates it remember

Isn't that only partially true? As far as I know the patches only contain new gameplay features, you still have to download the art assets. In any case it doesn't mean that you couldn't deliver them in the form of an installer.

You are wrong, that is not DRM that is digital delivery.

Well, you surely can say that it is a form of digital delivery. However as I already stated, the way it works means that to me the new DLC system amounts to DRM insofar that it restricts my access to the product.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Does that mean that you consider the patches to be DRM as well? After all, if you reinstall, you have to go to the website or tell the launcher to do so in order to recover the patches.

 

[unmerged(1823)]

And if they thought to fight piracy with Steam, well it seems to me they were wrong twice.

Its not that simple..

Making multiple versions of a game costs money.. If one version also provide you with lots of development benefits, as steam workshop does, then you either have to sell a crippled version to others, or spend a lot of extra money on a tiny fraction of customers.

GG used to be 25% of our games... now its less than 5% and Steam keeps increasing.

 

[Blastaz]

Its not that simple..

Making multiple versions of a game costs money.. If one version also provide you with lots of development benefits, as steam workshop does, then you either have to sell a crippled version to others, or spend a lot of extra money on a tiny fraction of customers.

GG used to be 25% of our games... now its less than 5% and Steam keeps increasing.

Are you commited to shift over to Steam only then? If so I'll stop buying my dlc on GG and shift over myself

 

[unmerged(1823)]

Are you commited to shift over to Steam only then? If so I'll stop buying my dlc on GG and shift over myself

no, we're not comitted to that yet.

 

[siis]

no, we're not comitted to that yet.

But you are thinking about using Steam Workshop for mods?

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Its not that simple..

Making multiple versions of a game costs money.. If one version also provide you with lots of development benefits, as steam workshop does, then you either have to sell a crippled version to others, or spend a lot of extra money on a tiny fraction of customers.

GG used to be 25% of our games... now its less than 5% and Steam keeps increasing.

Part of that might be that with the initial announcement that CKII was going to be Steam only, a proportion of the users who would normally buy on GG felt forced to buy it through Steam instead. Under those circumstances, that is going to skew your data. Then of course once someone has bought the core game on Steam they are then locked into it and can't buy DLC/Expansions elsewhere.
I'd also be interested in whether that Steam share includes the other sales that effectively gave a Steam activation code only. If so, that's going to boost the Steam market share even further, compared to previous games where the boxed retail copies (which you've said you're intending to phase out as well, but that's a slightly different point - it takes the company out of the eye of anyone who shops in games stores) could obtain expansions on GG. Basically the switch to retail copies using Steam will mean that the expansions and DLC that would previously have been bought through GG are now bought on Steam instead.

Just a thought as to why some of that shift in numbers will have happened.

 

[Burning]

GG used to be 25% of our games... now its less than 5% and Steam keeps increasing.

Sad... on the other hand, what do you expect? PI marketing is aggressively pushing sales on Steam, while minimally promoting their GamersGate game versions? I'm pretty sure 90% of your customers are not even aware that GamersGate exists. I continuously read on the forum announcements page that now that there is some Steam Sale going on; GamersGate also has those, but PI itself seems to almost never promote those as they do with Steam sales.

Also, why should one buy one of the numerous Steam-requiring games off GamersGate if you still need Steam? Of course this does not apply to CK2 or EU4, but it's one explanation for why GG sales are declining compared to Steam sales.

I'm pretty sure with those who actually keep your games alive, the figures are quite different. That is: modders and hobbyists, not the average DLC-cattle, but the creative and resourceful folks. And for the last few Paradox games I recall, modders have kept those games alive, and the games benefited from them a lot. What would EU2 or EU3 be today without modders?

no, we're not comitted to that yet.

Good, please don't commit to that, ever!

Look at what Civilization 5 has degenerated to today due to Steamization. They had a live, fledgling and well organized modding community until Civ5 came out with Steam-enforcement, but besides a few "commercial mods"/spin-offs, the Civ5 and Total War modding communities are shadows of themselves. And that's definitely NOT due to declining sales.